R3E R3E Racing Club

4 8 15 16 23 42 108 · Jan 19, 2016

Please sign me up. Not my track, but can't have it all. @Phil Davies we both in thirteeners mate?

2scoops · Jan 19, 2016

i'm doubtful as it's my daughters 21st at the weekend and Sunday evening may be the only time we get to go up to Middlesbrough Uni while shes' sober lol

Brian Greenwood · Jan 19, 2016

Andy Jackson said:
Me please @Kenny Paton Someone has to be a back marker.

Kenny Paton said:
You after my job Andy

Looks like we could have a few people after your job @Kenny Paton

Marc Cabana · Jan 19, 2016

sign me in pls

Lars Hansen · Jan 19, 2016

spire13 said:
As for the slower driver getting out of the way, I've read a few thoughts on RD about this - general consensus seems to be that it's the faster driver's responsibility to find a safe place to perform the overtake - not the slower driver's to get out of the way.

Quite true.
Furthermore, there's this from the Club Rulebook:
"Do not alter your line or braking for a faster car behind you. Unpredictable moves have a way of ending the race for both of you. Let the faster car dictate when and where to initiate a pass, and only then assist by easing off of the throttle."

So in other words, please don't lift off the throttle in the middle of Eau Rouge.

spire13 said:
That said, once I hear the "Blue flag!" call, I do try to move off the racing line a little bit and ease off the gas a bit (not too much though - don't want the faster car hitting me in the back!) to let the faster car through (and yes, that has resulted in me eating gravel!).

Don't. If you can't move out of the way without ending up in the gravel, then stay on your line.
I know nobody wants to hold anybody up, especially if you're just starting out in RD, but the bottom line is that if somebody wants to pass you, that's his problem not yours.

One more thing. If you're being lapped, by all means try to get out of the way.
However, if a faster car on your lap finds himself behind you, you're most certainly allowed to fight for your position.
You're not allowed to block, but you are allowed to take a defensive line, and make the other guy work for it.
The flip side of that coin however, is that while the other guy obviously isn't allowed to ram you out of the way......
Staying right on your rear bumper, and try to stress you into making a mistake, that is not only legal, it's a very valid tactic.

spire13 said:
(I'm always going to remember Crew Chief's last message to me in my first race using it: "Bloody awful result mate!". Yeah... thanks for that!).

And now you know why I don't use Crew Chief.

spire13 · Jan 19, 2016

Thanks for the comments Lars - all useful stuff!

However, a question did spring to mind on this part:

Lars Hansen said:
You're not allowed to block, but you are allowed to take a defensive line

Where does "doing a Hamilton" fit into that?

Phil Davies · Jan 19, 2016

4 8 15 16 23 42 108 said:
Please sign me up. Not my track, but can't have it all. @Phil Davies we both in thirteeners mate?

I'll stick to them for both races this time

.

Kenny Paton · Jan 19, 2016

spire13 said:
Ok, sign me up (even if this is an entirely different prospect compared to the Audi TTs on Sunday just passed).

As for letting the faster drivers through, I used Crew Chief on Sunday and I think it's essential (ok, ok, I realise that if I see another car behind me then it means I'm about to be lapped - no chance I'm actually ahead of someone by position in a race), but hearing the "Blue flag!" prompt is fantastic - I think Oscar (and a few others) passed me 3 times (yes, each! Partly my fault for having no idea how the pitstops and drive-through penalties worked - took me 3 pitstop "detours" to get the drive-through penalty to "stick"!).

As for the slower driver getting out of the way, I've read a few thoughts on RD about this - general consensus seems to be that it's the faster driver's responsibility to find a safe place to perform the overtake - not the slower driver's to get out of the way.

That said, once I hear the "Blue flag!" call, I do try to move off the racing line a little bit and ease off the gas a bit (not too much though - don't want the faster car hitting me in the back!) to let the faster car through (and yes, that has resulted in me eating gravel!).

(I'm always going to remember Crew Chief's last message to me in my first race using it: "Bloody awful result mate!". Yeah... thanks for that!).

I can do no better than quote Lars Hansen's post on the subject.

Lars Hansen said:
Just my two cents on this one.
It is always the responsibility of the faster car to overtake safely.
There are no exceptions to this rule.
I noticed at Sonoma that during qualy the track got rather crowded so I asked Kenny to do a Rolling Start for qualy this time.
What this means is that everyone will be alone on the track during qualifying, so nobody gets held up.

But when it comes to the race itself, the rule always applies.
If you find yourself stuck behind a slower car going up the mountain, too f*cking bad.
You wait until a safe opportunity presents itself, no excuses, no exceptions.

Now, having said that, there are a few options for the lappee (is that actually a word?) to facilitate the overtaking.
Either stick to your line, and let the lapper pick the best time to overtake. Obviously this requires the lappee to be able to hold a steady and predictable line.
Or CLEARLY go off the racing line, and let the lapper through. Best option here is to use TS to let the lapper know this in advance; e.g. "I'll go wide in the next corner"
But with a track like Bathurst, be aware that there are only so many places where you can actually go off the racing-line safely. Please don't try to get out of anybodys way on the way down the mountain. Odds are you'll hit the wall, spin back out on track and ruin everybodys day. Instead, keep to your line, and let them pass you on the back-straight.
I know nobody wants to accidentally get in the way of a battle, but it is actually very simple.
If you have somebody behind you who wants to pass you, that is not your problem.
Concentrate on your driving instead of looking in your mirrors.

As for using TS for warnings.....(and again, this is just my opinion)
Well, using TS as a heads-up to let people know the leaders are approaching, that's fine.
Telling somebody "I'm coming up on your left", absolutely fine as well.
But if anyone ever uses it to say "I'm coming through, get out of my way", they can look forward to a colossal bollocking from yours truly. And if it keeps happening, I'll have absolutely no qualms about reporting anyone to the admins.
My apologies for the finger-wagging, and I doubt it'll ever be an issue.
But I've seen some pretty bad stuff happening in other clubs because people put competition over participation, and I simply won't allow that to happen in the R3E Club.
These are Club races, and as such are and always will be open to anyone no matter their skill-level.
Racing to win is fine and to be expected. Racing to win at all costs is NOT.
If winning is more important to you than having fun, I'd suggest one of the leagues instead.

And here endeth the sermon.

Phil Davies · Jan 19, 2016

spire13 said:
Which bit - the driving or discovering just how much gravel it's possible to collect in my radiator before I hit the wall?

In the WTCC's It'll be the latter

Kenny Paton · Jan 19, 2016

Lars Hansen said:
Quite true.
Furthermore, there's this from the Club Rulebook:
"Do not alter your line or braking for a faster car behind you. Unpredictable moves have a way of ending the race for both of you. Let the faster car dictate when and where to initiate a pass, and only then assist by easing off of the throttle."

So in other words, please don't lift off the throttle in the middle of Eau Rouge.

Don't. If you can't move out of the way without ending up in the gravel, then stay on your line.
I know nobody wants to hold anybody up, especially if you're just starting out in RD, but the bottom line is that if somebody wants to pass you, that's his problem not yours.

One more thing. If you're being lapped, by all means try to get out of the way.
However, if a faster car on your lap finds himself behind you, you're most certainly allowed to fight for your position.
You're not allowed to block, but you are allowed to take a defensive line, and make the other guy work for it.
The flip side of that coin however, is that while the other guy obviously isn't allowed to ram you out of the way......
Staying right on your rear bumper, and try to stress you into making a mistake, that is not only legal, it's a very valid tactic.

And now you know why I don't use Crew Chief.

Damn, I just quoted your post from the last time the subject was raised.

Kenny Paton · Jan 19, 2016

spire13 said:
Thanks for the comments Lars - all useful stuff!

However, a question did spring to mind on this part:

Where does "doing a Hamilton" fit into that?

Well if you're doing a Hamilton you won't be getting lapped will you