R3E R3E Racing Club

[brc19]

I'm in, Capri #7 please.

 

[UMC 22]

Is there an orange BMW?

You bet there is!

 

[Calvyn White]

Not one from holding back on my opinion, so here it is.
I feel these cars didn't handle very well before any update, other words from the last time we race them to this time they are probably 20% worse than already were.

At first, I thought there was something wrong with my throttle, so I tried some other cars and saw no problem.
So I looked at my pedal set software for my Heusinkveld. And I saw it says at about 30% throttle maybe a more but virtually going to the rev limiter. Very odd.

These cars were quite tricky to drive some months ago hard but could be fun, but now they are not right for me, and they are not fun.
I've always said this, and I will repeat it making a car harder to drive doesn't make it any more realistic in some cases such as this group of cars I would say this is the case. I can't believe for one minute in real life any of these cars would handle like these.
Just my opinion mostly from testing, logic and common sense.
Based on that I will not be joining this event funny enough, I'm too young to die, but I sure hope somebody streams it as I can do with a ****ing good laugh right now.

The only thing that is really put the icing on the cake for these cars is having full damage and all the other bangs and whistles that can be turned on. I really think the slowest driver maybe even win.

But to be honest, I cannot drive these cars in the condition they are as my shoulder would not allow it too much of a fight with the wheel even for 20-minutes will leave me in somewhat difficulty in the way of pain.
But I wish you all the luck and fun that you can get from these cars.
Have a great race guy's.

 

[UMC 22]

I've always said this, and I will repeat it making a car harder to drive doesn't make it any more realistic...

I agree entirely with that statement and often say it myself in response to physics discussions. However, I think that driving a 70s-80s era car with 600-900bhp, a whopping great turbo, sod all brakes and dodgy suspension probably was a tad difficult in real life. They had too much power delivered far too quickly for the rest of the technology to cope with. Getting these things around a track quickly was a delicate and difficult balancing act, which for me at least is what makes old classic cars far more entertaining to drive (but not necessarily race) than modern sports cars.

Each to their own of course and we all have our own opinions, but personally I think they handle better than they did before the physics patches. I can feel the traction better and, more importantly, can actually catch slides instead of just being along for the ride from the moment they start. Love `em.

 

[Jopamir]

I only have the BMW and the Capri...
One has my heart the other keeps me alive(ish...)
What do I do...?

On another note: What is wrong with that uphill right-hander turn (Toe T7)?? You cant touch the throttle (2nd gear?) without avoiding imediate first degree contact with the barrier...w*f? Better have damage OFF, jezzuus

 

[Jopamir]

You bet there is!

View attachment 433926

(or the Capri - there is also an Orange one)

 

[ko41]

I agree with @Calvyn White that they seem to me, to be more difficult to drive after the update....or maybe it's the Watkins Glen track surface. I haven't tried any of the Group 5 at other tracks since the update. The Greenwood Corvette used to be my car of choice, it was a handful but it was manageable, not so much now.

 

[Dieter Bromvich]

Chevy Monza #2 please.

 

[UMC 22]

Many thanks to the guys who helped me do the test event tonight. Appreciate it, and the racing was good fun too!

The result was that everything seemed to work as intended... the rolling start, the manual cooldown lap, and (in my case) the new interface style. So the main event on Saturday will now use a rolling start, and everyone is free to choose manual cooldown laps if they wish. (In Gameplay settings.)

 

[UMC 22]

By the way, I misread the post by the S3 beta tester. He could not reproduce the reported issue with the Fabcar and neither could I, so it seems fine. Probably just an old pre-patch setup being auto-loaded or something.

So yeah, if anyone is confident enough to choose the Fabcar, go for it!

 

[ko41]

So yeah, if anyone is confident enough to choose the Fabcar, go for it!

I'm not, please switch me to the #2 Capri.

 

[Jan Larsen]

I'm still debating whether to crash and burn in the Vette or slow and safe in the Capri...

 

[sc4dr]

I don't enjoy these cars like I used to. I haven't had much seat time in them since the update, but I have a hard time believing they handled like this in real life. The power delivery which can cause spins I believe, but the way these pigs push in the turns at a running pace is what I have a problem with. I'm happy that at least some of you guys like them better now. * shrug shoulders *

 

[UMC 22]

The thing I find odd is that people who could barely drive these cars before (like me) seem to be doing fine, yet people who used to enjoy them feel they've been ruined. This is despite most of the feedback at the time their physics was patched being overwhelmingly positive.

Also reminds me of when the DTM 92 physics were updated. That also got a very positive response, yet I thought they were worse that before. Of course now I realise that they are much better, but it took the breaking of some old habits and bit of getting used to.

So perhaps it's a case of not liking change rather than the cars being unrealistic or broken.

 

[Alex Hodgkinson]

I'd advise anyone who's not getting their head round them to select one of the turbo cars and drive it around on a low engine setting (1 or 2) for a while.

Without the threat of massive boost-induced wheelspin looming you'll be able to focus on actually driving rather than just hanging on for dear life. Spending some sessions like that at several circuits will help build up an understanding of what these cars and tyres are and are not capable of. I'd suggest only tweaking up the power higher once you can drive race length stints which are not peppered with lock-ups, missed apexes and crossed-arms. Only then you're ready for the Dekon and maybe even the Greenwood Corvette.

Personally I find the Fabcar the most docile on a low boost setting.

 

[ko41]

Jumping into one of the Group 5 cars after doing ranked races in GTR3 and BMW M235i is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Alex Hodgkinson]

At first, I thought there was something wrong with my throttle, so I tried some other cars and saw no problem.
So I looked at my pedal set software for my Heusinkveld. And I saw it says at about 30% throttle maybe a more but virtually going to the rev limiter. Very odd.

Throttle pedal maps

This is a really big one. Although we're calling it throttle mapping, I like to refer to it as engine torque response curves. Gone are the entirely linear, perfectly concave or perfectly convex throttle pedal responses. It's now replaced with an entirely customisable system with which we can build bespoke throttle response curves for each and every engine as well as for individual engine maps (which we'll get to later).

I'll begin by explaining why this is important and what was wrong previously. Firstly we need to understand that an engine is an air pump. When running is actively drawing air in as the suck-squeeze-bang-blow process creates an expansion of gasses which travels out of the exhaust valves and down the exhaust pipe. That creates a void and therefore a vacuum at the inlet side of the engine. It's important to have that understood because it explains that the throttle butterfly valve or slide is not simply a volume control; opening it 25% at idle revs won't simply give us 25% of the power available. It will give us measurably more as the air is being drawn in, and drawn in at a higher speed than if the throttle was wide open at those revs. Thus you can see it's really quite a complicated matter of fluid dynamics and definitely not a volume knob.

Until now, we've by default a completely linear throttle response in game. Opening the throttle to 50% at any given revs would give you 50% of the power available. That is no longer the case, as we can build response curves which look like this:


Horizontal axis is throttle input, vertical axis is engine torque response.

This behaviour is far closer to reality, and entirely tuneable by us behind the scenes.
You'll notice the black line is very different to the others - that's because this is what throttle response curves looked like before the advent of modern electronic control systems with drive-by-wire throttle systems. All of our pre mid-90s cars will be shipped with this type of throttle response curve.

Seeing as this is quite a revolution for our throttle behaviour, I'll offer a few words to help;

• Ensure that your throttle pedal sensitivity is now set to default, which is 50%
• Initial throttle pickup is much quicker across all of our modern cars (1995-on)
• From roughly half-throttle onwards you have reduced sensitivity, so you'll find there's more room to play with and the car will be more controllable when you're playing with the power
• Give yourself some time to get used to it, this is quite a big departure from how a majority of sims have done things for the last 25 years!
• Some cars which have engine maps have different throttle response curves for each map. Usually higher engine maps give more aggressive throttle response. Have a play with the different maps and you'll surely notice the difference.

 

[UMC 22]

Not sure how I missed that post on the S3 forums. Thanks @Alex Hodgkinson!

Jumping into one of the Group 5 cars after doing ranked races in GTR3 and BMW M235i is a recipe for disaster.

Haha, works the other way too. Those TTs last night felt like they were glued to the road compared to the Gr5's I've been messing with all week.

 

[sc4dr]

Thanks @Alex Hodgkinson for the response. I love what you guys are doing. I always lean towards older high horsepower h pattern cars, and spent a lot of time in the fab car, which I was pretty dominate in. When I first drove it after the big update I was shocked how bad the off throttle under steer was. Some of it is obviously old habits, but now the Capri will smoke it.... everywhere.

In the end I do admit I need to put more time in to learning all the cars again. Btw the BMW is brilliant!

 

[Calvyn White]

Not sure how I missed that post on the S3 forums. Thanks @Alex Hodgkinson!

And me.
And thanks @Alex Hodgkinson that explains quite a bit.
And Explains why I'm not too fond of it, but I am certain I will begin to if I can physically cope with it. I suppose and turn frustrated me to the point of not appreciating the change, whether more real or not.
The question of realism is in the SIM whether it's AAC, RF2, iRacing etc. So I'm saying raceroom group 5 cars do not drive in my perception of realism, but they do elsewhere. No Harm, no foul. And this could be vice versa with any car in of the sims.
But unfortunately, my favourite sim with top-notch force feedback probably if not the best sounding etc, etc is busting my balls, and you need to pack it in. It's all very well for "realism" but can you bloody well put it back now.