Automobilista 2 Update: New Content, Features and Fixes

No Insurance · Mar 12, 2023

Bathurst historic and the rear cam dash for the McLaren 720 GT3

norbs · Mar 12, 2023

Skinny McLean said:
From what I have read, Reiza was started by a group of game modders. If true, is that still the case (i.e. are any professional programmers/developers employed by Reiza)? It seems to me they are content with simply releasing new content and tinkering a little with some physics parameters instead of giving the game engine a much needed overhaul. To me, AMS2 seems more and more like a PC2 mod created by amateur fans than a new game/sim.

Im a professional developer, now.

BrunoBæ · Mar 12, 2023

Lino Carreira said:
The comment i ear the most from people whenever i ask them to retry it again is, we have to drive in unnatural ways to make times in AMS2... its usually enter the turn understeer, mid to end turn when applying a bit of throtle oversteer like mad.... seems to me theres no middle ground on the engine.

Without much patronizing I think you and your (obviously) casual friends are quite wrong in the description of the physics/tire model behaviour in AMS2.
First the "casual" thing:
If a user just pop in in any racing sim just to get a quick impression of the sim since the last time he also just popped in then he is a "casual" driver - and pretty unqualified to make a believable assessment.

A bit harsh yes but if such assessments want to be taken serious then it has to come from people who at least are able to drive the cars in AMS2 near the limit of the cars(= the TMs) loosing and regaining grip/adhesion on the virtual tarmac.
OK?

But if you can prove to me that any of your friends or maybe yourself are able to drive a car in AMS2 into this TM area then your socalled assessment could be serious.

The only proof of this in AMS2 is to show a higher position (fast laptime) on the sims official TT leaderboards.
So I challenge you to take any of the higher powered formula cars and show that you are able to drive the car near to its limits.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: On most of AMS2 formula LBs you will probably be able to find a certain BrunoB to compare your and/or your friends laptimes against - if you want your negative assessment to be taken serious.
Im waiting.

BrunoBæ · Mar 12, 2023

Hey I just want to add that I also consider some of the cars in AMS2 complete bullocs.
Thats the reason I solely drive the higher powered formula cars.
Take all the formula USs and the F-Reiza and the two newest F1 formula cars - they are all a dream to drive.
Hehe and the class including the F98T

Metla · Mar 12, 2023

BrunoBæ said:
Without much patronizing I think you and your (obviously) casual friends are quite wrong in the description of the physics/tire model behaviour in AMS2.
First the "casual" thing:
If a user just pop in in any racing sim just to get a quick impression of the sim since the last time he also just popped in then he is a "casual" driver - and pretty unqualified to make a believable assessment.

A bit harsh yes but if such assessments want to be taken serious then it has to come from people who at least are able to drive the cars in AMS2 near the limit of the cars(= the TMs) loosing and regaining grip/adhesion on the virtual tarmac.
OK?

But if you can prove to me that any of your friends or maybe yourself are able to drive a car in AMS2 into this TM area then your socalled assessment could be serious.

The only proof of this in AMS2 is to show a higher position (fast laptime) on the sims official TT leaderboards.
So I challenge you to take any of the higher powered formula cars and show that you are able to drive the car near to its limits.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: On most of AMS2 formula LBs you will probably be able to find a certain BrunoB to compare your and/or your friends laptimes against - if you want your negative assessment to be taken serious.
Im waiting.

So, The criteria for having an opinion is your laptimes?

Hows it smell up there?

tr1v1um · Mar 12, 2023

Skinny McLean said:
That's what I meant by "tinkering."

My point was that it seems like the good people at Reiza have bitten off more than they can chew with this project, hence my question about their qualifications (and I'm not implying that you have to hold a university degree in computer science to create great games - many successful developers, artists and composers started out in the demo scene many years ago, entirely self-taught.) But there's a huge difference between game modding and game development, the latter of course being much more difficult.

I am sorry to say this but your comment is complete nonesense. Eventhough AMS2 isn't my go-to-sim I acknowledge the effort and skill it takes to create such a piece of software. Reading the changelogs for AMS2 it should be pretty evident that they aren't just making Madness Engine mods. It's the same BS that Empty Box told about MG in claiming that they just release rF2 mods.

I had the luck to work with several people in a modding team who started from nothing and went into the gaming industry simply due to hard work and passion. Some of them work or have worked for AAA studios like DICE, Activision/Infinity Ward , Wargaming or Tripwire Interactive. The whole sim racing genre is driven by people who started as modders. People don't really understand how important modding is, as it isn't driven by education, economics and business but creativity and the will to learn something. It's the purest form of game development you will ever get. And don't underestimate the skill of some of those "hobby"-developers. Some of the best mods exceed their base games by far in terms of quality, features and content. And in most cases the hardcoded limitations of the basegames are what makes it difficult to go even further.

DRDNA333 · Mar 12, 2023

I wonder when the "Dirt pack" is coming if ever?

wolftree · Mar 12, 2023

tr1v1um said:
I am sorry to say this but your comment is complete nonesense. Eventhough AMS2 isn't my go-to-sim I acknowledge the effort and skill it takes to create such a piece of software. Reading the changelogs for AMS2 it should be pretty evident that they aren't just making Madness Engine mods. It's the same BS that Empty Box told about MG in claiming that they just release rF2 mods.

I had the luck to work with several people in a modding team who started from nothing and went into the gaming industry simply due to hard work and passion. Some of them work or have worked for AAA studios like DICE, Activision/Infinity Ward , Wargaming or Tripwire Interactive. The whole sim racing genre is driven by people who started as modders. People don't really understand how important modding is, as it isn't driven by education, economics and business but creativity and the will to learn something. It's the purest form of game development you will ever get. And don't underestimate the skill of some of those "hobby"-developers. Some of the best mods exceed their base games by far in terms of quality, features and content. And in most cases the hardcoded limitations of the basegames are what makes it difficult to go even further.

Clearly modders like Aristotelis Vasilakos or Ilja Jusupov could never develop a proper racing sim and that's why AC+CSP sucks so much /s.

simrace2 · Mar 12, 2023

BrunoBæ said:
Without much patronizing I think you and your (obviously) casual friends are quite wrong in the description of the physics/tire model behaviour in AMS2.
First the "casual" thing:
If a user just pop in in any racing sim just to get a quick impression of the sim since the last time he also just popped in then he is a "casual" driver - and pretty unqualified to make a believable assessment.

A bit harsh yes but if such assessments want to be taken serious then it has to come from people who at least are able to drive the cars in AMS2 near the limit of the cars(= the TMs) loosing and regaining grip/adhesion on the virtual tarmac.
OK?

But if you can prove to me that any of your friends or maybe yourself are able to drive a car in AMS2 into this TM area then your socalled assessment could be serious.

The only proof of this in AMS2 is to show a higher position (fast laptime) on the sims official TT leaderboards.
So I challenge you to take any of the higher powered formula cars and show that you are able to drive the car near to its limits.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: On most of AMS2 formula LBs you will probably be able to find a certain BrunoB to compare your and/or your friends laptimes against - if you want your negative assessment to be taken serious.
Im waiting.

Fast laptimes have virtually nothing to with whether physics are accurate or not. In fact, it could be quite the opposite. If you put a real racing driver in a sim with poor physics and he was outrun by a good gamer who could master the bad physics, they're still bad physics. For the most part I like AMS2, but to equate speed with realism is nonsense.

Leynad777 · Mar 12, 2023

roadyroad said:
As I haven't driven these cars, except the Formulas vintage, I couldn't express my disagreement, because on other cars this oversteer by throttle play worked prefectly fine.
So I've just made a few laps which all the cars you mentionned on Interlagos, a track were uplifting is mandatory to be able to throw the cars in the slow high able turns and to avoid huge understeer un the long fast turns, and I must say this was absolutely false and dishonnest information.

Thanks to you I've discovered the Formula Vee and the Formula Training, which are tremendously fun to drive and rely a lot on this technique, as you can efficiently throw them with a slide by up lifting and bring them in a perfect position, if well executed, in the corner. So it works perfectly.

The same with the other cars, except the Formula Vintage Gen1 which default setup (both of them, V8 and V12) is atrociously understeery because of the 2 high differential. Just lower it and the car will behave fine. I don't think Reiza intended to recreate cars from 1967 F1, the year with the most difficult F1s. So it is easier and less prone to slide while upshifting, in current sims (I did do that today to compare immediatly), it is closer to the 70s non winged F1 from RSS in Assetto Corsa. And probably closer to the 66 cars modded for GP Legends, but I haven't been playing this game for many years, so I can't be sure (what is sure is that they were much easier to drive than the 1968 cars).

So, there is no issue there about thevup lifting. I drove also the Puma GTB (copa classic FL), a perfect car to test this technique, the Chevrolet Corvette GTP (group C), and the cars rotates perfectly on uplifting.

I agree on the fact the F Vintage Gen1 should have their default setupd updated, as well as the generic Reiza's F Vintage Gen2 (the Brabham and Lotus default setups are good) which suffers a bit of understeering too (not on the level of the Gen1s).

I doubt you have launched the game recently or even have the game. Anyway, tjanks for suggesting these cars, they are really fun, and indeed perfect to have fun practicing this technique!

I was spending 1973 hours in AMS2 and won way over 100 online-races, often thanks to my better setups. There is less understeer nowadays, but lift-off oversteer is something different and it was once very pronounced while braking and often loosing the rear if not executing it properly. Nowadays you can even brake hard with a CART while steering and the rear will never get upset even while trying and no matter which car. There is not one car in this game today you can spin off-throttle with or without brakes, not even intentionally. You only deal with the front-axis and the rear will follow. But also the throttle-management is now way too easy and for example the SuperV8 is a shadow of it's former past. I was testing dozens of cars the recent days and all got the same treatment.

There were times (most of them) I was racing in iRacing or rF2 before and thought, AMS2 feels better, more challenging and reasonable. Now it's the exact opposite and I doubt that I've changed, it's the game, which isn't a sim anymore in this state.

BrunoBæ · Mar 12, 2023

Metla said:
So, The criteria for having an opinion is your laptimes?

No. But like most with some understanding can understand then the criteria is to be able to drive the virtual cars FAST.
Otherwise any critique/assessment of the physics/TM just a more or less random oppinion.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: The smell is pretty good. Thank you for asking

Metla · Mar 12, 2023

BrunoBæ said:
No. But like most with some understanding can understand then the criteria is to be able to drive the virtual cars FAST.
Otherwise any critique/assessment of the physics/TM just a more or less random opinion.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: The smell is pretty good. Thank you for asking

So, its a yes then.

And somehow your **** doesn't stink either.

Now two of the dumbest posts I have ever read are in this thread.

stenovitz · Mar 12, 2023

gamma123152 said:
Maybe it doesn't happen with the Quest 2 then? I'm a Reverb G2 user with 3400x3400 resolution(maybe it only happens with high res?) and it's REALLY distracting me. Even to the point that full grid Formula cars are not even drivable anymore because of the different rendering of the sparks per eye...

OK, so now provoked the issue, just tested with Formula Classics Gen3s @ Galeão.

But most prominent by setting Quest 2 IDP to Preset 1 (lowest lens distance 58mm, mostly for kids, must admit that this setting makes me immediately cross-eyed, but it has suited my daughter well since she was 6, while I use Preset 2 / 63mm).

But think this is a resolution / performance setting, too.
With below performance settings before altering, spark modelling in VR was absolutely supreme on near distance, but vaguely faulty at AI's at far distance at the back straight - but since low settings everything is becoming grainy anyhow looking far distance ahead, so doesn't matter to me (I'm fine with my GFX using about half the power compared to 4K flat screen racing with everything maxed out in-game).

Then I altered performance settings to values listed below.
And then I discovered the phenomena, even with my optimal Quest 2 IDP Preset 2 setting, and even at close distance.

But this is just with Virtual Desktop and SteamVR (no wires, just Wifi6+ / 1200mpbs).
My presumption is that the result would be different (better) using my GFX' USB-c port and my 5meter USB-C cable delivering quite more throughput here, at least 2½ times more than wireless Virtual Desktop mode.

VR Steam Quest 2, Res. 3612x3748 @90hz (no change)
AMS2 settings.
Performance (only section altering values)
Resolution: 1920x1080 (Borderless)
Texture res: Medium -> High
Texture Filtering: Anisotropic x2 -> x4
V-Sync: No
MSAA: Off
Post AA: FXAA Medium -> SMAA Medium
Reflections; Low -> Medium
Environment Map: High -> Ultra
Car Detail: High -> Ultra
Track Detail: High -> Ultra
Pitcrew Detail: All
Shadow Detail: Low -> High
Motion Blur: Off
Render Frames Ahead: 1
Detailed Grass: Low -> High
Particle Level: Low -> high
Particle Density: Low -> High

Visual FX (no change):
Post-processing Filter: On
Exterior Sun Flare: Full
Interior Sun Flare: Full
Bloom: On
Heat Haze: On
Exposure Compensation: 0.90
Rain Drops: Yes
Vignette: No
Crepsular Rays: No
Screen Dirt: Yes
Cockpit Mirrors: On

Cockpit, High Speed Shake: On (no change, remaining params should be irrellevant I think)

Virtual Reality (no change):
Gaze Control: Off
Super Sampling: 2.0
Camera Near Clip Plane: 0.07

System (no Change):
Shared Memory: Project CARS 2
UDP Frequency: 1
UDP Protocol Version: Project CARS 1

JahSteve · Mar 12, 2023

Is it too late for Reiza to switch AMS2 to the gMotor engine? They could incorporate Stock Car Extreme and AMS1 into it, open it to modding and sell it for a $19.99 but free to all who have bought AMS2 because I for one want a refund at this point. They can sell future DLC's for RF2 money.

Richard Wilks · Mar 12, 2023

BrunoBæ said:
No. But like most with some understanding can understand then the criteria is to be able to drive the virtual cars FAST.
Otherwise any critique/assessment of the physics/TM just a more or less random oppinion.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: The smell is pretty good. Thank you for asking

I think you missed the part where he mentions that his friend drives a real caterham, and says the car is nothing like the one in game.

BrunoBæ · Mar 12, 2023

simrace2 said:
Fast laptimes have virtually nothing to with whether physics are accurate or not. In fact, it could be quite the opposite.() For the most part I like AMS2, but to equate speed with realism is nonsense.

Advice:
Try to read my comment again - my good man.
You cannot find anything like Fast Laptimes = good/correct physics in my comment.
OK?

BUT.
But if you want your assessment of something to be taken serious then you have to prove that you know something about the subject.

And if we as here are talking about a racing sim then you have to prove that you both have some experience in the sim - but also that you are able use the experience to drive the cars in the sim very close to their limit.
Because its here the sims physics/tire model does show if it is adequate or not.
OK?

Wreckoning · Mar 12, 2023

The thing is it nearly is all random opinion.

The easiest way to try and sell your point of view is say that you know someone or know someone who knows someone who drove it in real life and then go on to make your point either way. It maybe genuine but it adds little value. What kit were they running how was it set up, what other points of reference do they have? And even then its a “sim“ which can only provide limited feedback anyway.

This is all about people’s interpretations of how something should be and how much they get out of it. ACC maybe the most spot on simulation of GT3 racing but that doesn’t stop me from finding it a completely joyless experience.

I really like how RF2 drives in the majority of cases but I still really enjoy AMS 2 and don’t sit there judging it every time it does something slightly different.

Maybe this isn’t the game some people wanted it to be but do any of the rest of them tick all the boxes for everyone.

BrunoBæ · Mar 12, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
I think you missed the part where he mentions that his friend drives a real caterham, and says the car is nothing like the one in game.

No I just ignored it.

Because
1. I dont like this car - and dont drive it regularly.
2. Because I can see in the Reiza forum that a lot of other users dont like the cars behaviour too.

RichardHessels · Mar 12, 2023

Wreckoning said:
Agree everyone should have there own opinion, but I’m always curious as to what people think is the gold standard for them though.

For some reason the AMS2 threads seem to bring out alot of the “this is why I don‘t like it …. something about Project cars“ but it’s always useful to also understand what that persons idea of good is so you can put some context round it.

rF2 is the gold standard, when it comes to handling and ffb.
If i play the 2 titles with the same content shorty after each other it's even more clear.

simrace2 · Mar 12, 2023

BrunoBæ said:
Advice:
Try to read my comment again - my good man.
You cannot find anything like Fast Laptimes = good/correct physics in my comment.
OK?

BUT.
But if you want your assessment of something to be taken serious then you have to prove that you know something about the subject.

And if we as here are talking about a racing sim then you have to prove that you both have some experience in the sim - but also that you are able use the experience to drive the cars in the sim very close to their limit.
Because its here the sims physics/tire model does show if it is adequate or not.
OK?

You've said that in order for someone's opinion to have weight, that they not only have to drive the sim, but they have to drive it at a very high level. That's an absurd standard when the goal is realism, not just mastery of a game. If Alonso is 3 seconds a lap off the pace in AMS2 his opinion as it pertains to the realism of the sim would still be more relevant than every sim time trial record holder in existence.

Automobilista 2 Update: New Content, Features and Fixes

New car and track in AMS 2​

Bug fixes, features and more​

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