Automobilista 2 Update: New Content, Features and Fixes

Stepy · Mar 13, 2023

Lefthook said:
What drives me crazy is that AMS1 is my main sim and people can go on and on about how much more complex the Madness engine is and whatnot, but at the end of the day, comparing same car/track combo in AMS1 and 2, I walk away feeling AMS1 feels a lot more like a real car, especially under more extreme circumstances. AMS1 is what I drive when I crave racing, AMS2 is what I put on when a friend comes over and wants to sit in my rig.

When AMS 2 was announced i think everybody thought great AMS physics with the graphics from PC2. Unfortunately it hasn`t worked out like that.

Andy_J · Mar 13, 2023

Lefthook said:
What drives me crazy is that AMS1 is my main sim and people can go on and on about how much more complex the Madness engine is and whatnot, but at the end of the day, comparing same car/track combo in AMS1 and 2, I walk away feeling AMS1 feels a lot more like a real car, especially under more extreme circumstances. AMS1 is what I drive when I crave racing, AMS2 is what I put on when a friend comes over and wants to sit in my rig.

Actually you nailed it for me. I have been away from sim racing for a while until lately and only got AMS2 a few months ago. I have been enjoying it. I really have. I had uninstalled AMS a couple of years ago. This week I decided to re-install AMS and yes, for me it is better than AMS 2 in the way you race and feel the track. I will keep AMS 2 on my hard drive as it is great for weather transitioning and day/night stuff. But for me again, it's AMS 1 for the time being.

MadDriver11 · Mar 13, 2023

Andy_J said:
Actually you nailed it for me. I have been away from sim racing for a while until lately and only got AMS2 a few months ago. I have been enjoying it. I really have. I had uninstalled AMS a couple of years ago. This week I decided to re-install AMS and yes, for me it is better than AMS 2 in the way you race and feel the track. I will keep AMS 2 on my hard drive as it is great for weather transitioning and day/night stuff. But for me again, it's AMS 1 for the time being.

And this goes a long way towards explaining how people are judging "real" based on their previous sim experience and what they like and not what makes sense from the real world physics standpoint.
Even Reiza explained how in the process of "importing" physics from AMS to AMS2 for the models they carried over they found mistakes and issues and they managed to overcome shortcomings from the AMS engine through the madness engine.
Yet some people keep pushing this narrative that AMS1 felt like real cars and AMS2 does not.
Both developers and real life racers have explained like some of these tire models of the past (and some still of the present) are far too sharp compared to real life counterpart yet anything that is more like rubber gets addressed as "too easy to drive", not feeling like a race car etc.
Reiza also explained they imported their FFB approach into AMS2 and replaced entirely SMS's PC2, yet people keep saying that it feels like PC2 (really laughable statement by now as it takes 10 minutes to drive the same car/track combo and realize they are day and night).
So many widowed users that can't conceive that, maybe, some of the traits they have come to consider as real or realistic are just a habit, not necessarily something based on how real life car physics works.

Badwheels · Mar 13, 2023

I think to settle the constant bickering about " this sim, that sim, this tire model, that tire model, laser scanned, not laser scanned" this should be done.

Devs should have a "Town Hall" meeting of all sim racers who actually play the game.
Once the meetings starts, the lead developer asks, " Who here has actually driven a race car on a certified race track, in anger and has proof of such?
Anyone who has, gets to stay with the devs and are used as UAT (User Acceptance Testers)
Everyone else has to STFU. Forever.

gamer19 · Mar 13, 2023

what I don't like most at AMS2 is...
I love racing at changeable conditions so I pick wet track and maybe light rain
(sometimes I pick just cloudy) then second slot cloudy and then mostly clear.
so track goes dry as race progress. that way I have it all and the fun is at max
however....
ai at the start always pick slick (I have to use wets otherwise I slide all over)
and yet still have obviously much more grip than me

there... I've said it. just that
but can't tell you how huge it is for me

Andy_J · Mar 13, 2023

MadDriver11 said:
And this goes a long way towards explaining how people are judging "real" based on their previous sim experience and what they like and not what makes sense from the real world physics standpoint.
Even Reiza explained how in the process of "importing" physics from AMS to AMS2 for the models they carried over they found mistakes and issues and they managed to overcome shortcomings from the AMS engine through the madness engine.
Yet some people keep pushing this narrative that AMS1 felt like real cars and AMS2 does not.
Both developers and real life racers have explained like some of these tire models of the past (and some still of the present) are far too sharp compared to real life counterpart yet anything that is more like rubber gets addressed as "too easy to drive", not feeling like a race car etc.
Reiza also explained they imported their FFB approach into AMS2 and replaced entirely SMS's PC2, yet people keep saying that it feels like PC2 (really laughable statement by now as it takes 10 minutes to drive the same car/track combo and realize they are day and night).
So many widowed users that can't conceive that, maybe, some of the traits they have come to consider as real or realistic are just a habit, not necessarily something based on how real life car physics works.

Despite your rant I am merely reporting how both the games feel to me in back to back testing and racing. Just because you disagree does not make your opinion true or factual to me. And I never mention 'real' in any sim. And yes, testing back to back with Pcars 2 and AMS 2 is not too dissimilar. Like brothers but not twins.

I still enjoy them though. Just not as much. AMS 1 is the pinnacle for me along with RF2 and Raceroom. ACC is not bad either. AC I just don't rate at all.

MJQT · Mar 13, 2023

Lefthook said:
What drives me crazy is that AMS1 is my main sim and people can go on and on about how much more complex the Madness engine is and whatnot, but at the end of the day, comparing same car/track combo in AMS1 and 2, I walk away feeling AMS1 feels a lot more like a real car, especially under more extreme circumstances. AMS1 is what I drive when I crave racing, AMS2 is what I put on when a friend comes over and wants to sit in my rig.

You're so right. If the complexity of the Madness Engine can't be tamed (e.g. too many parameters to reliably get to the precise results you want) it doesn't matter how complex it is.

It's also worth mentioning that it does take significant time to work out how a game engine works and how to "make it sing". When we've had 20+ years to learn about how to squeeze the very best out of isiMotor 1 and 2.0 variations - the latest of which is Automobilista 1 - you'd hope some people (e.g. Niels Heusinkveld) would be able to produce pretty great results from it. And thankfully people have

Perhaps it will be that with time, the Madness Engine will get to the same point, once people (e.g. those at Reiza) have spent a lot of time developing cars with it.

John B. Ellis · Mar 13, 2023

Why on Earth would actual race drivers be the only ones capable of honestly rating a driving simulator? What rubbish—I drove my ‘73 2002 from my home and to the track and back again on track days, and the laws of physics never changed at any point between those two locations. A robust simulator ought to generate a believable driving experience at a range of speeds—not just at the limit. Given that most race cars have more power, downforce, and/or all-around performance than anything sitting in our driveways, it is quite safe to assume that 99% of race cars available in most sims would actually be the easiest piece of machinery you would ever have the pleasure of driving. And most of those, with a few, famous exceptions, provide an acceptable envelope or zone in which to safely explore one own’s limits as a driver.
Actual race drivers are best qualified to provide additional feedback about making a great racing simulator, but most of us here are perfectly qualified to offer cogent thoughts about the driving side of it.

Lefthook · Mar 14, 2023

MadDriver11 said:
And this goes a long way towards explaining how people are judging "real" based on their previous sim experience and what they like and not what makes sense from the real world physics standpoint.
Even Reiza explained how in the process of "importing" physics from AMS to AMS2 for the models they carried over they found mistakes and issues and they managed to overcome shortcomings from the AMS engine through the madness engine.
Yet some people keep pushing this narrative that AMS1 felt like real cars and AMS2 does not.
Both developers and real life racers have explained like some of these tire models of the past (and some still of the present) are far too sharp compared to real life counterpart yet anything that is more like rubber gets addressed as "too easy to drive", not feeling like a race car etc.
Reiza also explained they imported their FFB approach into AMS2 and replaced entirely SMS's PC2, yet people keep saying that it feels like PC2 (really laughable statement by now as it takes 10 minutes to drive the same car/track combo and realize they are day and night).
So many widowed users that can't conceive that, maybe, some of the traits they have come to consider as real or realistic are just a habit, not necessarily something based on how real life car physics works.

So you are the only person on planet earth that was able to put aside his previous sim experience and bias and come to the conclusion AMS2 is superior and everyone that thinks it maybe isn't the most realistic are all basing it off older sims and are just stubborn and stuck in their ways.

M8 you're hilarious.

Metla · Mar 14, 2023

Lefthook said:
So you are the only person on planet earth that was able to put aside his previous sim experience and bias and come to the conclusion AMS2 is superior and everyone that thinks it maybe isn't the most realistic are all basing it off older sims and are just stubborn and stuck in their ways.

M8 you're hilarious.

I don't see that he stated any of those things, at least not in the post quoted.

Its possible to point out real world fallacies and maintain awareness they also apply to the person pointing them out.

Fact is we are all biased and most of us have very little to no real world expertise to call upon. We just like what we like. In some cases this becomes more apparent the more some people try and justify where their supposed expertise comes from.

Durge Driven · Mar 14, 2023

Badwheels said:
I think to settle the constant bickering about " this sim, that sim, this tire model, that tire model, laser scanned, not laser scanned" this should be done.

As long as you don't include me and the 99% of simmers that don't bicker.
99% don't even comment and may only browse sim sites with google searches.
Yes 1%'ers which means in the big scheme of things you really don't matter so complaining between your selves does absolutely zilch.

Instead of going at each other sims have a good long think about what could be done to make it better for all sims ?

My idea since ever is for a number of studios to create a offshoot company to develop a new engine from the absolute ground up. Thing is unless you make the move it will never happen.
It will take much development years of code but in the long run we would have a engine all studios involved and/or license the engine can use.

Hypothetically we could then go from sim to sim and it won't feel like night and day.

All the eye candy in the world will never make up for this simple yet apparently unattainable thing.

roadyroad · Mar 14, 2023

MJQT said:
You're so right. If the complexity of the Madness Engine can't be tamed (e.g. too many parameters to reliably get to the precise results you want) it doesn't matter how complex it is.

It's also worth mentioning that it does take significant time to work out how a game engine works and how to "make it sing". When we've had 20+ years to learn about how to squeeze the very best out of isiMotor 1 and 2.0 variations - the latest of which is Automobilista 1 - you'd hope some people (e.g. Niels Heusinkveld) would be able to produce pretty great results from it. And thankfully people have Perhaps it will be that with time, the Madness Engine will get to the same point, once people (e.g. those at Reiza) have spent a lot of time developing cars with it.

Indeed the Madness engine seems a beast really hard to master. Lots of hate there but forgetting that AMS2, in terms of sim racing development, is a young piece of software. It took more than 4 or 5 years (or even more?) to get the final version of AMS1 (starting with game stock cars), if I remember well, and it was on a really well known engine, with much less features than AMS2.

What we must remember though is that Reiza did it with AMS1, we should give the team some trust for AMS2. Bashing and hating won't give any positive result on Reiza's work. Be patient, keep on giving feedback but be careful, the developpers are qualified, more than most of us, listen and accept some of their decisions, or we'll get another Pcars1 which went in the wrong direction while listening too much to the eraly backers/investors (from what I read ; I personnally liked the game although far from perfection).

By the way, I never got that much into AMS1 ; it is really good but something in the tyres lacks grip. It is the only "recent" sim which feels so different to the others. A question of taste I assume, but I think AMS2 is going in the right direction. I may be more patient tough just because I haven't been able to use the game (away from simacing during a few years) until recently. So my wait has been much shorter than for others

Lefthook · Mar 14, 2023

Metla said:
I don't see that he stated any of those things, at least not in the post quoted.

Its possible to point out real world fallacies and maintain awareness they also apply to the person pointing them out.

Fact is we are all biased and most of us have very little to no real world expertise to call upon. We just like what we like. In some cases this becomes more apparent the more some people try and justify where their supposed expertise comes from.

His first and last sentences do exactly that. Regardless, I enjoy AMS2 and yeah, it does do a lot of things better than other sims but it still has a way to go and my opinion is that the experience of pushing the car is lacking a bit in AMS2. Take the F USA to Indianapolis oval and tell me that the car handles close to what you would expect and the rear should be that hooked up. It's comically bad. It's still a great sim (and my #2) but it needs work and going back to my previous post, the team is too small to fix all the game needs in the timeframes they set themselves.

I think all sims do justice to real life racing and it isn't about "harder" or "easier". I would imagine if you took an alien driver from AMS2, gave them a bit to adjust to another sim (ACC or iRacing or whatever), they would no doubt beat most of the field with the exception of that games aliens. and same with ACC and iRacing drivers.

pai · Mar 14, 2023

roadyroad said:
Indeed the Madness engine seems a beast really hard to master. Lots of hate there but forgetting that AMS2, in terms of sim racing development, is a young piece of software. It took more than 4 or 5 years (or even more?) to get the final version of AMS1 (starting with game stock cars), if I remember well, and it was on a really well known engine, with much less features than AMS2.

What we must remember though is that Reiza did it with AMS1, we should give the team some trust for AMS2. Bashing and hating won't give any positive result on Reiza's work. Be patient, keep on giving feedback but be careful, the developpers are qualified, more than most of us, listen and accept some of their decisions, or we'll get another Pcars1 which went in the wrong direction while listening too much to the eraly backers/investors (from what I read ; I personnally liked the game although far from perfection).

By the way, I never got that much into AMS1 ; it is really good but something in the tyres lacks grip. It is the only "recent" sim which feels so different to the others. A question of taste I assume, but I think AMS2 is going in the right direction. I may be more patient tough just because I haven't been able to use the game (away from simacing during a few years) until recently. So my wait has been much shorter than for others

Reiza's journey can be traced back to the release of the Formula Armaroli mod for rFactor 1 back in 2010. Last AMS1 official update came in 2020 IIRC. The gMotor's story AFAIK traces as further back as the Sports Cars GT game from ISI back in 1999. Yes, it's been a long journey.

Johnny Speed · Mar 14, 2023

AMS1 was brilliant. The team did what they could with that and made it better. AMS2 is still a work in progress, and I have been berated and ridiculed on the "official forum" for saying that. In my opinion (ALL IN MY OPINION) they should of stuck with what they know, The gmotor rfactor engine. But for whatever reason, they went with madness.. good luck, I hate it. But that is only MY OPINION. I don't care about leader board bullshit..who is the fastest on time trials. If the cars don't feel right..they don't feel right. Period. ALL IN MY OPINION. (I hope I spelled opinion right..I said it like 3 times...) Bruno and whomever can be leaderboard champions of the world...that dosent mean they know anything about cars. Hell. My nephew who knows nothing about anything kicks ass on Gran Turismo because he learned THEIR PHYSICS on a controller.

Badwheels · Mar 14, 2023

Durge Driven said:
As long as you don't include me and the 99% of simmers that don't bicker.
99% don't even comment and may only browse sim sites with google searches.
Yes 1%'ers which means in the big scheme of things you really don't matter so complaining between your selves does absolutely zilch.

Instead of going at each other sims have a good long think about what could be done to make it better for all sims ?

My idea since ever is for a number of studios to create a offshoot company to develop a new engine from the absolute ground up. Thing is unless you make the move it will never happen.
It will take much development years of code but in the long run we would have a engine all studios involved and/or license the engine can use.

Hypothetically we could then go from sim to sim and it won't feel like night and day.

All the eye candy in the world will never make up for this simple yet apparently unattainable thing.

Tell you why that is unrealistic. Let's go to the real thing. All the car manufacturers get together and create an offshoot company to develop car engines, transmissions, and suspensions. They then go off into their little corners and add their own creature comforts, body styles, colors, brakes and so forth. They would do this so all of the consumers have the " same feel".

You have better chance of sandpapering a tigers ass in a telephone booth, than trying to get consensus on the core of a product by different groups who then all use that same technology.

Peter Kerényi · Mar 14, 2023

Ah, too bad I cannot apply any anti-aliasing to AMS1 with AMD...

Regarding the talk that only real race car drivers can have a say... that would mean that all the different sims with different approaches basiacally don't mean anything, even if they converge to a very similar result (FFB differences aside). And we must remember when Jimmy Broadbent (with SIM and IRL experience at the time) made a video with AMS2 where he said that it doesn't handle right, and it was like the end of the world in the comment section and Reiza forums.

MJQT · Mar 14, 2023

Peter Kerényi said:
Ah, too bad I cannot apply any anti-aliasing to AMS1 with AMD...

Weird. I'm on an RX 580, and can apply antialiasing no problem!

Peter Kerényi · Mar 14, 2023

MJQT said:
Weird. I'm on an RX 580, and can apply antialiasing no problem!

I am on a 5700 XT. In game AA is greyed out and in the drivers when I applied it didn't have any effect. But even when I was on Nvidia (1060) I could only apply AA via Nvidia Inspector. AMS1 doesn't like me

wolftree · Mar 14, 2023

Metla said:
I don't see that he stated any of those things, at least not in the post quoted.

Its possible to point out real world fallacies and maintain awareness they also apply to the person pointing them out.

Fact is we are all biased and most of us have very little to no real world expertise to call upon. We just like what we like. In some cases this becomes more apparent the more some people try and justify where their supposed expertise comes from.

Pretty sure I've seen a professional racing driver claim that the braking in iRacing is more realistic than in ACC, while another professional racing driver claims that it's more realistic in ACC.

Automobilista 2 Update: New Content, Features and Fixes

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New car and track in AMS 2

Bug fixes, features and more

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Comments

Stepy

Andy_J

MadDriver11

Badwheels

gamer19

Andy_J

MJQT

John B. Ellis

Lefthook

Metla

Durge Driven

roadyroad

Lefthook

pai

Johnny Speed

Badwheels

Peter Kerényi

MJQT

Peter Kerényi

wolftree

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Automobilista 2 Update: New Content, Features and Fixes

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New car and track in AMS 2

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