Mad Max or Rash Ricciardo? Have Your Say!

[Piero Favretti]

Grosjean isn’t that fast. But crashing under SC is pretty stupid indeed. But Verstappen isn’t stupid, he isn’t driving smart. But at least he’s fast [/QUOTE

Don't forget the time Grosjean almost decapitated Alonso at Spa and all the other dum accidents he had that year.

I guess my point was that most people were too hard on Maldonado when there are plenty of worst dummies with bigger wallets.

 

[RasmusP]

Btw if you didn't get knowledge of it yet:
Grosjean said that he hit the brake bias switch without noticing while heating the tyres and the moment he touched the brakes he couldn't do anything about the crash.
So not even a "driving error" - just being extremely... Let's call it "unlucky" this time

 

[paracletus]

It wasn't great by MV, but DR's attempt was a botch job. They knows it.
MV urgently needs a couple of clean races now.

It's easy to predict that Ricardo will leave red bull in 2018, but where will he go.
Definitely not Ferrari, while Vettelle is still there...

 

[keto95]

Obviously... they much more into Max than into Dan.
That's why he should go. And most probably will.

I'm not surprised they favour Max over Daniel. Max has a contract for a few more years and is young, so he's their future, although I have my doubts under the actual circumstances. Daniel's contract ends this year and he has the chance to go to Ferrari or Mercedes. He stated that he might sign a new contract if RedBull provided a winning car. The Baku race showed that the car wasn't fast enough to go for the win, so the chances of him re-signing are reduced. Somehow they know they're gonna lose Daniel, so now they prefer Max. F1 is all about politics which is mostly not based on honesty.

Grosjean said that he hit the brake bias switch without noticing while heating the tyres and the moment he touched the brakes he couldn't do anything about the crash.

He adapted his statement after he was aware that the "Ericsson-hit-me-from-behind" statement couldn't stand. What a clown, even as Ocon who blamed Raikkonen for already being alongside before he turned in for the apex and eliminated himself. I wonder what's wrong with some people, not being capable of having more self-reflection.

 

[denny001]

max si è spostato 2 volte, ma ricciardo non doveva andare a cercare la sinistra, è impossibile a 330kmh in frenata. doveva stare solo largo a destra

 

[Xzess]

The accident was Daniel fault, there is no doub about it. Everybody thinks it's not, because Daniel's onboard shows max waving arround, but it's not, it's Daniel trying to fool Max, and it didn't finish right. When Daniel brakes, I think with no car in front, it would go straight in that corner. Max only sighly changes one time and not too much sightly the direction. And yes, Max was too agressive in the whole race with his teamate, but in that case was DAniel frustration who causes the crash.
That's what I think.

 

[Patrik Marek]

How many people will continue to blame Verstappen for every accident he's involved in before they realize that other drivers can make mistakes as well. Everyone keeps saying 'Verstappen moved twice' but if they weren't so one-sided, they would see that Verstappen covered the outside, then chose his line for braking as the so called "second move" which, I think you'll find, is perfectly fair. Ricciardo's fault, unfortunately.

yeah that I'm not buying and here is why

ideal line in that corner is from very right, clip the inside apex and go to the very right again as you are exiting the cornern, .. not going left,
so the only reason he would move left, after he started moving right is to cover for Richardo, who is now overtaking him on the left,
yes, I find it that simple

 

[Patrik Marek]

It wasn't great by MV, but DR's attempt was a botch job. They knows it.
MV urgently needs a couple of clean races now.

It's easy to predict that Ricardo will leave red bull in 2018, but where will he go.
Definitely not Ferrari, while Vettelle is still there...

isn't it funny that people were saying the same thing before Baku ? ... Verstappen needs a clean race to regain trust, and he touches with team mate in first few laps, then again ( don't recall, but I heard they hit twice before the last event) and then it's involved in game over crash with his team mate again .. that to me isn't a race when someone told me, be more careful this time

 

[PresidentSmug]

As you can see Verstappen has chosen to come off the racing line to defend on the far left of the track.

Ricciardo after seeing there is no room on the left from Verstappens early defensive move he moves to the right where there is plenty of room.

Verstappen reacts to Ricciardo's move by moving his car off the far left and into the middle of the track. Verstappen knows he can only go this far because he is assuming that his atttacker will be to the right of him. Please note the space now created to the left is much larger than the first two pics. This is just enough room for Ricciardo's car which as you can see he goes for.

Verstappen after realising his mistake of wrongly assuming Ricciardo's move to the right and leaving space on his left reacts to Ricciardo's left move and moves left to cut off the inside. Please note the space to the left is now blocked.

I don't know what the stewards verdict was nor do i know the F1 rules that pertain to this situation. However these pictures show clearly as can be that Max intentionally blocked Daniel.

Earlier on in the race Verstappen made a similar move on Daniel at demonstrated in the clip below at the 1:48 mark, after defending from the middle of the track Daniel moves sllightly to the right to set himself up the next corner and Max made a late but legal move on the inside. The commentator called it a "brilliant move from Max" and a "great show of respect from Daniel". It's just a shame when the roles are reversed Max couldn't show his team mate the same repect.

 

[wombat999]

The accident was Daniel fault, there is no doub about it. Everybody thinks it's not, because Daniel's onboard shows max waving arround, but it's not, it's Daniel trying to fool Max, and it didn't finish right. When Daniel brakes, I think with no car in front, it would go straight in that corner. Max only sighly changes one time and not too much sightly the direction. And yes, Max was too agressive in the whole race with his teamate, but in that case was DAniel frustration who causes the crash.
That's what I think.

Think again! Can we borrow your crystal ball for future insights?

 

[jurik1984]

Verstappen must return to Toro Rosso! ))

 

[keto95]

I don't know what the stewards verdict was

Both drivers got a warning.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/135691/verstappen-and-ricciardo-reprimanded-by-fia

 

[PresidentSmug]

Both drivers got a warning.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/135691/verstappen-and-ricciardo-reprimanded-by-fia

thanks

 

[Matheus Machado]

Hi Geronimo. There was very briefly – for a few races at the end of 2016 – an actual rule that prevented changing line in the braking area. It was even called ‘the Verstappen rule’ because reaction to Max’s actions had instigated it. But it was dropped going into last year as the FIA did not want to ‘codify’ such specific actions, as it would invariably mean a long discussion after each race and the possibility of the race result everyone had seen being different to the official result.

The double defensive move – whether in the braking zone or not - used to also be specifically banned and might still get you penalised. But generally the stewards now have more leeway to use their own judgement to determine if a move was dangerous or a driver was ‘wholly or predominantly to blame’ for an incident. These things are decided in the split-second of a situation.

A choice was made last year to lean more towards the side of not inhibiting the racing. Obviously, there will always be errors of judgement in racing. It’s the stewards’ job to distinguish these from cynical and deliberate, professional fouls.

And there you go, official info on the F1 site about the lack of specific ruling that automatically makes a driver which makes more than one move penalised. Incident was reported to the stewards as said in appendix L and they said it was both drivers fault.
Although my personal opinion would be on Ricciardo making a move which was deemed to fail from the start and nit having enough room to avoid a possible incident ahead, overcommitment summarizes it.

We need to stop blaming verstappen for everything he is involved.

 

[Matheus Machado]

I don't know what the stewards verdict was nor do i know the F1 rules that pertain to this situation. However these pictures show clearly as can be that Max intentionally blocked Daniel.

A legal block, and there was even one car length exactly on the inside by what the TV cams showed. Rules allow it, as I've shown on my post above and going on saying he is at fault without even looking at the rules is pretty impulsive.

 

[RasmusP]

A legal block, and there was even one car length exactly on the inside by what the TV cams showed. Rules allow it, as I've shown on my post above and going on saying he is at fault without even looking at the rules is pretty impulsive.

So the question here is whether there was still enough room on the left in this picture?

 

[After_Midnight]

So the question here is whether there was still enough room on the left in this picture?

Ricciardo must be just stupid Instead of using the "still enought room" on the left side he is turning his steering wheel to the right
Which is in this case also the longer way to avoid a collision when there is "still enought room" on the left side.
The argumentation of @Matheus Machado makes no sense.
Also Verstappen should have known Ricciardo will loose much of his downforce of the frontwing if he'll set his car so close in front of Ricciardo. Especially in a braking zone like this.

 

[Matheus Machado]

Ricciardo must be just stupid Instead of using the "still enought room" on the left side he is turning his steering wheel to the right
Which is in this case also the longer way to avoid a collision when there is "still enought room" on the left side.
The argumentation of @Matheus Machado makes no sense.
Also Verstappen should have known Ricciardo will loose much of his downforce of the frontwing if he'll set his car so close in front of Ricciardo. Especially in a braking zone like this.

Well, as I said the overcommitment made it too late to make a move on the low grip surface of the inside. He decided to bet verstappen was going back to the outside (which would be out of rules) and dived inside while braking, no way he could be in that gap, let alone overtake.

 

[Matheus Machado]

So the question here is whether there was still enough room on the left in this picture?

I'm on mobile so can't take screens, from the trackside cam that shows both cars in a frontal view there is just the car length between verstappen and the wall. Never said Ricciardo could place his car there givennthe distance though.

Edit

There you go, imo enough space on verstappen left.

 

[RasmusP]

I'm on mobile so can't take screens, from the trackside cam that shows both cars in a frontal view there is just the car length between verstappen and the wall. Never said Ricciardo could place his car there givennthe distance though.

I agree but the rule says "track limits" which is the white line isn't it?
And then it won't fit anymore.
Anyway it was taking a massive risk from Ric and a slightly illegal move from Ver. They just earned it