Mad Max or Rash Ricciardo? Have Your Say!

[Matheus Machado]

I agree but the rule says "track limits" which is the white line isn't it?
And then it won't fit anymore.
Anyway it was taking a massive risk from Ric and a slightly illegal move from Ver. They just earned it

Two wheels would still be in contact with that white line as far as he could go there, and that is in the track. Verstappen had some share, really minor imo, most of it was bad decision making from Ricciardo. Usually he does a good job, but that time he didn't.

 

[Karstenve]

The normal rule is also that the car in front has the responsibility to drive predictable lines and not 'throwing' the car in the line of the car behind.
Especially with DRS enabled there's no time to react on the late blocking from Max. Both cars have to cooperate to make the pass possible. Max is playing his dirty tricks too long. A comparable situation happened with Raikkonen on Spa in 2016 (@ 40sec):

Jan Lammers has lost his objectivity and became too much a Verstappen fanboy, like you are ... not to be taken seriously though.

Wait, me??? A verstappen fan boy No I'm a Verstappen fan but I don't watch f1 because of Max. The point I tried to make was that Verstappen already chose his line beforehand. What I would call 'throwing' the car is blocking another driver. This was not blocking. This was trying to make the room as tiny as possible to give Daniel a bad entry and thus a bad exit. He didn't move more than a meter or something like that to the right and after that about 1 meter to the left. I think it's a race accident and dumb of both drivers. Most people like Daniel more because he is the funny guy. My question. Who would you blame if Max had driven Daniel's car and Daniel drove Max's car? I still think 70% of the people would say Max was wrong. I understand you can also say Max was wrong and he was. Everyone was wrong here. The only thing is you can't blame Verstappen directly and that's what most people do. Btw don't compare this to the Raikkonen accident. Max was wrong there. There he moved from line to line. Here he doesn't(Baku)

 

[Xzess]

Think again! Can we borrow your crystal ball for future insights?

I think of course it's my opinion based on what I saw that Daniel with the same racing line as Max, brakes too late eating Max back. It's only my opinion not a state, cause this case it's complicated.

 

[keto95]

Wait, me??? A verstappen fan boy

I never called you a fanboy, so let's get that straight.

This was not blocking.

If that's not blocking, then I don't know what is. Weaving right to left is clearly blocking to me, especially when it's done with a car so close behind. That sudden move to the left is what caused the accident. If Max didn't make that move, then there probably would've been no accident at all.

He didn't move more than a meter or something like that to the right and after that about 1 meter to the left.

You don't seem to understand what an impact just 1 meter left or right means in terms of driving on topspeed. Unpredictable behavior by the front driver causes these accidents and under DRS with a topspeed of 340 km/h there's absolutely no time to react; also bearing in mind the sudden loss of downforce and the dirty side of the track which makes the car uncontrolable. All grip is gone and you become a "passenger in your own car". Ask Ross Brawn, he can explain it to you far better than I can, but I have a pretty good imagination how forces in natural science work. (as being a part of Motorsport)

My question. Who would you blame if Max had driven Daniel's car and Daniel drove Max's car?

If the roles were reversed, then I would have blamed the car in front as well. (in that case Daniel) It's a stupid move and the car behind has nowhere to go; a split decision has to be made which is a 50/50% 'gamble' resulting in an accident like this. All precautions have to be taken to let it not come to that.

Btw don't compare this to the Raikkonen accident. Max was wrong there. There he moved from line to line. Here he doesn't(Baku)

Now that's where YOU are wrong:
1. With Raikkonen on Spa there was no accident.
2. Max did a harsh and unsportsmanlike move there, but it was legal.
He changed his line only once and defended his position.
3. On Baku he moved twice which is clearly blocking.
Whatever the regulations say, it's 'not done' to me.

Overall 70% of all voters (so far) have voted that Verstappen is to blame which is in line with the opinion of Niki Lauda. Personally I put the blame on Max for the full 100%. Knowing that Daniel is a clean racer and Max plays dirty tricks makes this decision easier for me. Max should have allowed the pass; he's not alone on track who wants to overtake. Probably 1 lap later Max could've overtaken Daniel the same way. That's what's racing and being sportsmanlike is all about and that's the racing I'd like to see. I think that's what Christian Horner meant by letting them race "wheel to wheel". They should've put out teamorders to handle the situation better. RedBull is also to blame, but they've been punished by missing out on at least 20 points which represents a lot of money.

 

[motoliser]

Cant belive this forum is infested with so many Max fanboys...laughing my ass out reading so much absurd Daniel's fault theories!!!
Verstappen is the only one to blame for all his car contact in this race and should've already been demoted back to Toro Rosso, end of thread.

 

[gamer19]

Keto, you are totaly right but save your breath mate, some people are just clueless...
"He didn't move more than a meter or something like that to the right and after that about 1 meter to the left" Jumpin Jesus on a pogo stick !?!
No, it was precisely 69 centimeters. I double measured it with my left thumb AND with my latest android app ! Hey I couldn't be wrong, measure twice cut once, that's my motto.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Cant belive this forum is infested with so many Max fanboys...laughing my ass out reading so much absurd Daniel's fault theories!!!
Verstappen is the only one to blame for all his car contact in this race and should've already been demoted back to Toro Rosso, end of thread.

As long you hide behind a fake usersname, you are the loser! Desktop hero!

 

[motoliser]

As long you hide behind a fake usersname, you are the loser! Desktop hero!

I assume you don't hide behind a username so that makes you Max itself by the way you look offended.

Guys... here's your real Hero! Time to bash him hard!!!

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Whoho

 

[PresidentSmug]

The stewards gave them both a warning so they both have responsibility for the incident which i agree, in the end Ricciardo gambled on Verstappen's fair play (not a smart move based on what i've heard about him in the past). The main reason i vote max is because it was his move back to the left (which the stewards recognised as wrong hence the warning) that caused the incident. If he didn't do that and left room there would be no incident or if there was it wouldnt be his fault, if he stayed as far left as he started there would be no incident because Daniel would have nowhere to attack but right. If Max blocked but Daniel didnt gamble and broke early he would get a warning for making dangerous moves that could cause an accident.

Looking back at a lot of Daniel's past overtakes if anyone turned back into his line we would have Baku but his overtakes are apparently a welcomed sight, everyone loves them. If theres space he will go for it and my pics show that Max left space.

I don't watch F1 so i have no affinity towards either driver. Watching it as a neutral Max caused it and Daniel finished it and i would punish the initial cause but thats just me and my crazy logic

 

[gamer19]

I don't watch F1

Omg, really ?!?
Why man, who does that ? Why are you here then ? NASCAR type of guy ?
So many questions as you may see...
But really... you're a pretty huge expert for someone who doesn't actually follow the sport.
Guess I can peacefully finish my Red Sox season review.

 

[Joseph Wright]

Omg, really ?!?
Why man, who does that ? Why are you here then ? NASCAR type of guy ?
So many questions as you may see...
But really... you're a pretty huge expert for someone who doesn't actually follow the sport.
Guess I can peacefully finish my Red Sox season review.

He says he doesn't watch it, not that he doesn't follow it I dont watch F1 but I know what goes on. Ive seen 1 F1 event in the past two years, and thats it. But I know all the results, incidents, overtakes (no that there are many... )

In fact to many people's surprise, I don't watch much motorsport. BTCC is the only event I watch every single round for. Everything else is just "if I can be bothered". Im not a hardcore racing fan, but thats okay. Not everyone is.

 

[PresidentSmug]

Omg, really ?!?
Why man, who does that ? Why are you here then ? NASCAR type of guy ?
So many questions as you may see...
But really... you're a pretty huge expert for someone who doesn't actually follow the sport.
Guess I can peacefully finish my Red Sox season review.

I've never been interested in Motorsport but loved racing games, grew up on Mario Kart and Wipeout and got into sim racing about 2 years ago just cus it looked cooler than using my controller. I do like watching real life onboards though but the actual race event meh

No expert but racing etiquette is one of those things i had to learn fast, holding your racing line in Mario Kart really aint a thing

 

[PresidentSmug]

He says he doesn't watch it, not that he doesn't follow it I dont watch F1 but I know what goes on. Ive seen 1 F1 event in the past two years, and thats it. But I know all the results, incidents, overtakes (no that there are many... )

In fact to many people's surprise, I don't watch much motorsport. BTCC is the only event I watch every single round for. Everything else is just "if I can be bothered". Im not a hardcore racing fan, but thats okay. Not everyone is.

Funny you say that because i do want to know who got Pole, what was the lap time, seeing the lap time only cus i wanna see how it looks so i can do it in a sim but i never watch the races would rather do laps myself.

 

[Karstenve]

Keto, you are totaly right but save your breath mate, some people are just clueless...
"He didn't move more than a meter or something like that to the right and after that about 1 meter to the left" Jumpin Jesus on a pogo stick !?!
No, it was precisely 69 centimeters. I double measured it with my left thumb AND with my latest android app ! Hey I couldn't be wrong, measure twice cut once, that's my motto.

I'm clueless? I wasn't saying it wasn't the fault of Max here. I only tried to explain why I don't think he moved twice. That's my opinion. No reason to disrespect that.

I never called you a fanboy, so let's get that straight.

If that's not blocking, then I don't know what is. Weaving right to left is clearly blocking to me, especially when it's done with a car so close behind. That sudden move to the left is what caused the accident. If Max didn't make that move, then there probably would've been no accident at all.

You don't seem to understand what an impact just 1 meter left or right means in terms of driving on topspeed. Unpredictable behavior by the front driver causes these accidents and under DRS with a topspeed of 340 km/h there's absolutely no time to react; also bearing in mind the sudden loss of downforce and the dirty side of the track which makes the car uncontrolable. All grip is gone and you become a "passenger in your own car". Ask Ross Brawn, he can explain it to you far better than I can, but I have a pretty good imagination how forces in natural science work. (as being a part of Motorsport)

If the roles were reversed, then I would have blamed the car in front as well. (in that case Daniel) It's a stupid move and the car behind has nowhere to go; a split decision has to be made which is a 50/50% 'gamble' resulting in an accident like this. All precautions have to be taken to let it not come to that.

Now that's where YOU are wrong:
1. With Raikkonen on Spa there was no accident.
2. Max did a harsh and unsportsmanlike move there, but it was legal.
He changed his line only once and defended his position.
3. On Baku he moved twice which is clearly blocking.
Whatever the regulations say, it's 'not done' to me.

Overall 70% of all voters (so far) have voted that Verstappen is to blame which is in line with the opinion of Niki Lauda. Personally I put the blame on Max for the full 100%. Knowing that Daniel is a clean racer and Max plays dirty tricks makes this decision easier for me. Max should have allowed the pass; he's not alone on track who wants to overtake. Probably 1 lap later Max could've overtaken Daniel the same way. That's what's racing and being sportsmanlike is all about and that's the racing I'd like to see. I think that's what Christian Horner meant by letting them race "wheel to wheel". They should've put out teamorders to handle the situation better. RedBull is also to blame, but they've been punished by missing out on at least 20 points which represents a lot of money.

I'm not going to react to it just because the points you are making are good and I didn't think about some thinks. My opinion is still (somewhat) the same but that's me. That probably doesn't matter anything to you guys. I'm not a (real) racing driver so who am I to judge. You are right.
Let's have a great race next sunday!

 

[keto95]

That's my opinion. No reason to disrespect that.

Everyone's entitled to have their opinion, as long it's respectfull to others.

I'm not going to react to it just because the points you are making are good and I didn't think about some thinks. My opinion is still (somewhat) the same but that's me. That probably doesn't matter anything to you guys. I'm not a (real) racing driver so who am I to judge. You are right.
Let's have a great race next sunday!

I thought I explain it to you to help you understand things better the way they are.
It's not just a bit of car driving, it's far more complicated than that.
Btw, I'm also not a real racing driver, but only a simracer. Have a nice next race!

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

Everyone's entitled to have their opinion, as long it's respectfull to others.

For the sake of being pedantic I'd say that although everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is obligated to take those of others seriously

 

[gamer19]

What a great ending.
Everyone loves everyone.
Wish all threads end up like this.

 

[PresidentSmug]

Bastards the lot of ya. That's better feels like a proper thread now

 

[gamer19]

Hey, (president)Smug...

I have only one thing to say to ya...

Have a great race next sunday!

Now eat your heart out!