Who do you think was to blame for the Red Bull coming together in Baku


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Mad Max or Rash Ricciardo? Have Your Say!

Red Bull Crash.jpg

Baku was full of action, accidents and excitement but perhaps the key talking point was "that" Red Bull crash on lap 39. Who do you think was to blame?

Now let's be honest here, the Red Bull cars were asking for a coming together practically from the green light, so I suppose the eventual contact would come as no surprise to anyone who watched the race, but that didn't stop a furious Red Bull team reading the riot act to both drivers following the conclusion of the race on Sunday. What I would like to know is - who do you think was to blame?

Just in case you live under a rock, or you've forgotten what happened in the last couple of days, have look again below:

Let us know in the comments section below!
 
RaceDepartment Editor-in-Chief, occasional YouTuber, commentator and broadcaster, with a passion for motorsport on both the real and virtual racetrack.

RasmusP

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Oct 7, 2016
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For me Verstappen is at fault but Ricciardo wasn't really trying to avoid it.
When you watch the steering inputs you'll see that Verstappen does 2 moves. Simple thing, it's not allowed, end of story.
You could argue that he let his car drift to the right and only did one long bend, following the ideal line and only did one move but you see that his car is at the left and then his steering wheel moves two times.

Ricciardo however decided to hit the brakes instead of dodging it and running wide (very wide then though...).

EDIT: Give me all the "Disagree"'s you want but I'm still waiting on a source that states that more than one move would be allowed. I can live with not being in the right but I'd like to learn the facts then please. Not really an F1 veteran so happy to get up-to-date!
Or if you disagree with something else feel free to quote me and tell me why. It's a discussion, not a rating contest ;)
 
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Alexandre

75RPM
Jul 20, 2012
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Max, he takes the line, then change it, and then he close the door backing to first line again, forbidden movement.
 

keto95

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Jul 16, 2017
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For me Max is to blame, no matter what the regulations say.
If you're weaving right to left with your teammate (or any driver for that matter) closing in on you with DRS enabled, then that's a dangerous move asking for an accident. Daniel had nowhere to go. I feel sorry for him that he was dragged into the situation caused by streetfighter Max.
 
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bgil66

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Sep 24, 2014
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My vote is for D!ckhead It also looked like he braked too early as well, anyway he's a putz
 

Meensheep

1RPM
Jul 8, 2017
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First off, dont really care who's fault it was. They showed some awesome racing and were a big part of what made this race interesting to watch. More of this please! Just without the crashes....

But, making 2 movements IS allowed according to the regulations. You are not allowed to make adjustments to your steering while you are braking though however, iirc. Max didnt move whilest braking. Still think it is another big mistake by Max. Just dumb move for the sake of both their championships and the team. Looked like his personality got in the way of Ricciardo. Daniel just lost control cause of dirty air, drs and being in the wrong place. But he should have avoided it, he was the one making the move.
 
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OzBoz

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Oct 6, 2008
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Daniel made a dummy move where Max anticipated on. That's just normal. Daniel was also way to late with his action to ever made it through that corner with the speed he still had (even with him being good at late braking). It's pretty stupid of both and since Max didn't buy that dummy move it would have been smarter to steer right (or left) but without steering this will be the result.

And I guess (my opinion) that Daniel already was a bit frustrated losing his position again to Max. And if they tell you just few moments before crash 'you have to get him again, do him' ain't that the most smart thing to put on his radio. But well, things happen and think it's more a race incident and both could have act smarter.

The good thing is that Red Bull let their drivers race and that made this race worth watching. Don't want those F1 races with people doing laps like it's practice without any real action. And I think they both showed some great racing. That wheel banging wasn't really needed though.

Looking at a lot of online reactions I think that the millenial generation ain't used to real racing (and real life) anymore talking about dangerous blabla. Riding a horse is more dangerous these days and be happy there is some action.
 
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BP

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This is the view right after Max's first move to the right...Given Ricciardo's recently demonstrated ability to brake late and squeeze by in these circumstances, his being within DRS range (and having it enabled) and the size of the gap...I think if Verstappen hadn't double blocked, my opinion is Ricciardo had enough room and momentum to get by...whether he would have indeed completed the move or zoom right into the runoff zone is anyone's guess...but there was enough room and Max closed the door on him at, what...more than 300 kph?

Ricciardo also knows his teammate so he should have anticipated such a move, so some blame is due to him...but the only one that broke an actual racing rule is Verstappen, so I vote Verstappen at fault.
 

RasmusP

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First off, dont really care who's fault it was. They showed some awesome racing and were a big part of what made this race interesting to watch. More of this please! Just without the crashes....

But, making 2 movements IS allowed according to the regulations. You are not allowed to make adjustments to your steering while you are braking though however, iirc. Max didnt move whilest braking. Still think it is another big mistake by Max. Just dumb move for the sake of both their championships and the team. Looked like his personality got in the way of Ricciardo. Daniel just lost control cause of dirty air, drs and being in the wrong place. But he should have avoided it, he was the one making the move.
Tried to find something written and up-to-date about this and I can't find anything... If you're right maybe the German TV commentators have to read something too...
I only found that movement under braking is allowed again as long as it isn't "endangering".

And this:
Reddit-link
Where someone states that "Appendix L" of the FIA Code actually states that only ONE move is allowed. I can't be bothered to translate the french pdf though but apparently there's a need for clarification. The F1 specific regulation documents and official websites don't say anything about it...
 
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RobertGracie

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Jun 4, 2017
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More blame towards Mad Max Verstappen because of the double movement I made a lengthy post explaining my position in the 2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix thread on it about my 3 possible outcomes of this in the way I am thinking about it but now I have thought it over there was clearly a double movement by Max to cause the crash
 

Patrik Marek

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Oct 25, 2014
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how many people will have to crash with Verstappen, before he is officially marked dangerous and sacked

yes it brings excitement to the sport and he made some great moves in the past, but overall he is costing many people lot of $$$ because of his eagerness and sometimes just plain stupid actions

if he doesn't grow up, it's time for him to leave the sport
 

BP

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For me Verstappen is at fault but Ricciardo wasn't really trying to avoid it.
Do you mean Ricciardo performing the attack, knowing how Verstappen operates? Or do you mean him not trying to steer away from Verstappen (or back off by braking hard) after block #2?

I read an article earlier where they quoted Ross Brawn as saying that he thinks the 2018 F1 aero designs loses significant amounts of downforce when that close behind another car...basically losing the ability to grip under hard braking, thus an unavoidable accident in this circumstance. Looking at the footage again, he seemed to have nowhere to go but through Max in that last second...and it seems like he (Ricciardo) attempted to veer right after the second block (to possibly avoid a crash?)...so maybe there is some truth to that statement.

Here's the article: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/953850/F1-insider-real-reason-Daniel-Ricciardo-Max-Verstappen-crash
 
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RasmusP

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Do you mean Ricciardo performing the attack, knowing how Verstappen operates? Or do you mean him not trying to steer away from Verstappen (or back off by braking hard) after block #2?

I read an article earlier where they quoted Ross Brawn as saying that he thinks the 2018 F1 aero designs loses significant amounts of downforce when that close behind another car...basically losing the ability to grip under hard braking, thus an unavoidable accident in this circumstance. Looking at the footage again, he seemed to have nowhere to go but through Max in that last second...and it seems like he (Ricciardo) attempted to veer right after the second block (to possibly avoid a crash?)...so maybe there is some truth to that statement.

Here's the article: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/953850/F1-insider-real-reason-Daniel-Ricciardo-Max-Verstappen-crash
I meant "not trying to steer away after block #2". Braking was useless as there wasn't enough grip for it. The only possibility to dodge it would've been to only brake very gently and try to get the car to the right again and then braking hart in a straight line, going wide and aborting the attack.
That said I don't anybody with as much adrenaline pumping as these guys have would think about aborting the attack completely plus losing time in such a situation. But from my point of view there was enough time to make such a decision and to get the car far enough to the right.
 

InsaneOzzie

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IMO the team management needs to take some of the heat for the lack of points at the end of the day.
After the 1st coming together of Ver & Ric when they banged wheels, the comment made from Brundle was that Newy & Horner looked at each other shaking their heads. I realise RB allows them to race, but as the teams boss Horner should of looked at the overall picture from a constructors & drivers points view and intervened. If he had done so, and Ver had allowed Ric to pass as he seemed to have the quicker car, the outcome would of been much different, and some valuable points would of been the result.
Sure, no driver likes to be given team orders, but the whole accident and subsequent loss of points could of been avoided if the team had taken control of the situation after Ric's 3rd attempt to pass Verstappen in the early stage of the race.
After all isn't that what Horner is paid to do, manage the team, that includes controlling the drivers from themselves and each other if need be, lets not forget motor sport is a TEAM effort.

I also feel the incident has convinced Daniel he needs to leave RB, hopefully he'll get the offer he wants from Ferrari or Merc, then we'll see him at his best I believe.
 

Gers

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Apr 22, 2017
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I voted it as Ric's fault ... Imo the car behind should ensure they can safely overtake. I don't believe he would have made the corner without running Ver off the road ... I think he was frustrated after losing the place in the pit stop and ran out of ideas when the situation developed .. No plan B so slammed on the brakes and hoped for the best
 

Knoxstar

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Jan 5, 2016
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Racing is exciting .... crashing isn't. Team Red Bull first, then Max, then Daniel.

Off topic! Welcome back Paul!! I hope your throat is mending.. You were missed.