Automobilista 2: Wet Line Confirmed, v1.5 Available (Updated)

It is a refreshing and interesting to read about some of Reiza's key members, especially 2 being initially users, like us. It makes more obvious that Reiza has been listening to users and constructive criticism.

The new more realistic and advanced wet track system is a really major piece of news. It is not mentioned whether the AI will use the right track line at the moment, it needs to be tested ; anyway if it doesn't, there is no reason to believe it won't in a close future.

Looking.forward to test evryrhing tomorrow (and rfactor2 AI update!).

Anyone have any updates regarding a career mode? I love something like, for example, GT Legends where you start off in a slower car and small tracks and work your way up to faster and more difficult cars and bigger tracks. There are so many wonderful cars, tracks, and car-track combinations in some games that I would have never experienced or known about if it wasn't for career modes. I love being forced to run a certain car and/or track, having a goal to progress, the excitement and curiosity of finally progressing to a new car and discovering it's speed, sounds, FFB, driving style, setup changes, cockpit graphics, etc. It also makes you "feel" and appreciate the faster cars more as you start from the slowest cars and move your way up.

RallyCross from what I remember felt better in PCars2, may be the memory is faded, but not impressed at all. And long awaited physics overhaul is quite meh to be honest, may be need more tunning, but I have expected more. Sigh, racing the same car/track combo in AMS2 and ACC is like night and day difference.
Kudos to Reiza for keeping trying though, they surely work hard, just need a better engine to shine.

I hope driving in the rain is better now. I was finding it almost impossible with my setup before this update. I think this was the only sim that gave me so many problems in the wet.

Andrew_WOT said:

RallyCross from what I remember felt better in PCars2, may be the memory is faded, but not impressed at all. And long awaited physics overhaul is quite meh to be honest, may be need more tunning, but I have expected more. Sigh, racing the same car/track combo in AMS2 and ACC is like night and day difference.
Kudos to Reiza for keeping trying though, they surely work hard, just need a better engine to shine.

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I don't think the GT3s are a major reason to race AMS2. They are not bad at all, but not the reason I start it up. If GT3s are your thing, stick to ACC ( although I just can't get on with it personally ). This shouldn't be a surprise, ACC is all about the GT3s. AMS2 shines with all the other great cars on offer.
As for the RX, I can only compare it to iRacing iRX and it is much more immersive and fun, the FFB is much better. You are a bit of an outlier saying the 1.5 changes are meh, maybe you are just used to the way ACC does things.

ButtHurtGamer said:

I hope driving in the rain is better now. I was finding it almost impossible with my setup before this update. I think this was the only sim that gave me so many problems in the wet.

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I did a couple of the wet weather challenges on RCO over the past few weeks and found it ok with the correct tires. I was disappointed in a way it was not more challenging. I think this new change they are implementing is great, but they are doing it in very small increments to test the water, so to speak. So it might not be that noticeable. AI wet lines are being updated but it's a bit of a slog with 200 track layouts.

' Its got a lot about it that is beyond the bounds of other sims, such as they were/are limited whereby which it derives its value" tbh '

The driving is way better now in a logical and satisfying way, predictable and of course the game engine has 600 hz or something ffb and the frametimes in the ME are very low so the experience is really good.

For driving huge improvements, I am sure to play this game for ages longer. This will probably cause a lot of people to re-assess just which sims they put their time into.

You can feel the grip and reaction to bumps kind of climb on top of each other as you might expect and everything while the steering is sharp, so there's heaps of fidelity there now.

The dev update points to it being ironed out so you can drive with that in mind as you push the car and get to be more deliberate with the throttle and brakes, so the physics/tire physical model and it all pans out how you expect for driving.

Its excellent software to use. Well done! I don't know yet it could even be out in front overall from a driving and steering point of view, there's oodles of detail going on. I know some games try to sim all the aspects to the Nth degree, I am playing this and noting how good it is doing things the other titles don't do.

You could plot that on a graph and have 50 dots, but the line you would draw for AMS2 would be high regardless of sim-intensity, kind of thing, its a really great title to drive around in. A lot is going on but none of it is racing-bland or racing-silly or non-experience worthy. This has to be some sort of class leader these days. I do not see how it wouldn't be. I mean may be its not simmed out to exactness in values but I think that would be missing the point. Its got a lot about it that is beyond the bounds of other sims, such as they were/are limited whereby which it derives its value" tbh

I noticed great improvement on handling and FF. Thanks Reiza! Go, go, gooooo!

mcroshaw said:

I don't think the GT3s are a major reason to race AMS2. They are not bad at all, but not the reason I start it up. If GT3s are your thing, stick to ACC ( although I just can't get on with it personally ). This shouldn't be a surprise, ACC is all about the GT3s. AMS2 shines with all the other great cars on offer.
As for the RX, I can only compare it to iRacing iRX and it is much more immersive and fun, the FFB is much better. You are a bit of an outlier saying the 1.5 changes are meh, maybe you are just used to the way ACC does things.

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Even the GT3's in AMS2 are now next-level. There are not many GT3 cars to choose from, but they are absolutely amazing. And I understood that new GT3's are coming. What feels better is subjective, ACC now feels outdated to me.

Managed to drive a large number of cars last night and this update is fantastic, its a real game changer imo.

The stand out cars for me are the 1998 McLaren, the GT1s and the Sprint Car, although all the cars are now driving really well, those are my stand out ones.

The handling is now extremely predictable and the ffb is superb. The driving feels very informative and alive, something i also get from rF2.

Comments from the usual Mr WOT, Stepy and their ilk about the "engine" are now looking and sounding very silly & like they have a bug to bear IMO, the work Reiza have put it to fine tuning and re-coding the ME are paying dividends and in some instances i think its now best in class to drive.

I hope they ad some point to points for the rally, that would be awesome.

Keep up the fantastic work Reiza, you're doing an amazing job!

How is the ai now on ams2? Is it a lot better than it used to be for offline racing? How does it compare to other sims?

Speednut357 said:

I believe that the game would benefit from a more consistent and understandable physics model. Currently, there are certain aspects that seem illogical and it's difficult for me to figure out how to adjust my gameplay to keep my car on track and enjoy the experience. Even F1 Challenge was able to execute this properly. I just hope that the developers focus on perfecting the physics and Force Feedback for a single car, instead of trying to cater to everyone's preferences. AMS was successful in achieving this goal.

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if u just say something that is not "game changer" !!!.. take care, they will insult u
so yesterday i did a race with F1 gen4 model 1 with much rain, Ai started with slick me with wet, when they started after less than half lap they all disappeared, too much fast
but i keep silent, i know how is working here

Andrew_WOT said:

RallyCross from what I remember felt better in PCars2, may be the memory is faded, but not impressed at all. And long awaited physics overhaul is quite meh to be honest, may be need more tunning, but I have expected more. Sigh, racing the same car/track combo in AMS2 and ACC is like night and day difference.
Kudos to Reiza for keeping trying though, they surely work hard, just need a better engine to shine.

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Nothing wrong with the engine imo, especially when you are using a motion rig (I use PT 150mm's myself). While ACC still has better on board controls, it's motion (like all Kunos games) is pretty meh. The way bumps and tyres have an impact on the suspension, and the way weight transfer is conveyed, is where the ME shines. The only sim that comes close in that regard is RF2.

Speednut357 said:

I believe that the game would benefit from a more consistent and understandable physics model. Currently, there are certain aspects that seem illogical and it's difficult for me to figure out how to adjust my gameplay to keep my car on track and enjoy the experience. Even F1 Challenge was able to execute this properly. I just hope that the developers focus on perfecting the physics and Force Feedback for a single car, instead of trying to cater to everyone's preferences. AMS was successful in achieving this goal.

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ButtHurtGamer said:

I hope driving in the rain is better now. I was finding it almost impossible with my setup before this update. I think this was the only sim that gave me so many problems in the wet.

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i try f1 ge4 model 1. nothing changed

kamackeris said:

How is the ai now on ams2? Is it a lot better than it used to be for offline racing? How does it compare to other sims?

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Depends on the track I think. Some got a AI path update in this patch and are very good indeed. Some are just ok. Not as good as iRacing AI or the latest RF2 AI IMO and I'm an AMS2 convert, but good enough for some really good offline racing. RX AI is the most all over the place at the moment and is very much WIP. I'm sure Reiza knows it needs improving.

Marco_il_bello said:

if u just say something that is not "game changer" !!!.. take care, they will insult u
so yesterday i did a race with F1 gen4 model 1 with much rain, Ai started with slick me with wet, when they started after less than half lap they all disappeared, too much fast
but i keep silent, i know how is working here

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That's an AI calibration issue though, not a physics one.

In terms of physics, generally speaking I think you can only write this off now if you expect certain things. Yes, high downforce cars might still have slides that are a little more gradual than they are in the real car, but they have been improving that particular issue. Also, yes, it's more easy to correct slides than in other simulators, but the amount of "ridiculous" slides that can be saved has been reduced to a degree where you'll be very hard pressed to find one that hasn't been done in real life. Powersliding cars is still possible, but it will be punished by tire heating.

Also, yes, on the limit the tires are sliding, but that's also what they do in real life. There can be disagreement about the exact metrics - the how is not perfect in any sim and likely won't be here - but I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong left in the game.

finally a sim that implements proper wet weather conditions that require you to take a wet line in certain areas. Looking forward to trying this out.

Blair McConachie said:

finally a sim that implements proper wet weather conditions that require you to take a wet line in certain areas. Looking forward to trying this out.

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I think its pretty subtle for now. Will be tuned over next few patches I imagine.

M0dernT1mes said:

Nothing wrong with the engine imo, especially when you are using a motion rig (I use PT 150mm's myself). While ACC still has better on board controls, it's motion (like all Kunos games) is pretty meh. The way bumps and tyres have an impact on the suspension, and the way weight transfer is conveyed, is where the ME shines. The only sim that comes close in that regard is RF2.
It also helps that Reiza imo has the best track builders in the business. The track meshes in AMS2 are so good I can feel bumps and cracks in tracks that otherwise would be flat in other sims.

And since V1.5 adressed the impact of the tyres on the suspension, not only ffb but motion also feels a lot better, even though the sim already had the best motion imo.

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Thats what I concluded in my first post in the thread. Later I was driving the rocco on Nords 24 hour for example, and I changed spring rate up 2 notches on the front and then camber up 2 notches to negative 3.2 or 3.4, that was it - the tires and spring was able to come down off a hill and banking near the start of the hilly section at the very top a few turns in and it 'plopped' or slewed under weight on the right side in line with road shape so the speed and ffb-feel and movement all combined well, a real nice transition in there with the aero or anything else - so when it came to feel it in the wheel it understeered on that wheel and angle even as I turned the wheels to be more straight then go back the other direction - that was super cool - it went another 5 or 10 meters fast working itself out, then it all recovered a fair bit/stabilized and I knew (predictable) how it would react back into its slight oversteer at that speed (so I hit those two turns or that 4-turn complex real nice) - there's also more weight and heft to the whole body of the cars, I'd say a lot more is coming through in this patch that was probably already there and is now allowed to shine.

It was a pleasing 'real-time' simulation of such a driving movement. And the fidelity played out in that space with the weight and direction and physics/air all combining what I thought was real nicely. Definitely above the threshold to re-recreate the simulation of it, weight, material, direction, etc of the physical aspects (so number's aside, disregarding whatever they are or to whatever level of accuracy; I'm pretty sure they have the Rocco's information).

Really good! The ffb and tires are not necessarily as busy or over-reactive as some other titles to provide that level of depth have to be, thus you can feel in AMS2 what those tires are doing without the sim (I think as of 1.5) trying to over-reach to display or apply it.

I also concur with the motion of the engine too given it was originally designed as an arcade, you can tell its got solid fundamentals in certain aspects; not that I know but from the overall development timeline the engine from 10 years back to now would have to be way out in front due to having to add in all the simming aspects, given its extensible; I know little of the engeneering behind it, developmentally its probably had more man-hours of years (whatever metric you like) put into it in sim racing, it would seem, bar maybe one or two titles. Beyond my first post so not repeating myself its an engine that gives plenty of room to display these traits in. How in red dead 2 the motion engine in that game lets you view more movements than motion in engine like the old skyrim SE, its the same principle.

If Digital Combat Sim world can do it, from 2010-13, then give itself an update the past couple, this engine feels that smooth to me in all honestly and to be developmentally no worse off than may be even AC2, thankfully people can bury that hatchet now about the engine not delivering. I'd say this title delivers currently.

And if thats true, or owing to my bias - it would line up with my prediction of AC2 and indeed the seminal AC 1 which people didn't like me mentioning lol - you know, what I said came true which I expected I suppose like anyone most people on the website are technically minded - I am supposing everyone had an inkling there would be those/these engines out in front; having the engine and data would mean they could develop and get out on ahead.

Unfortunately I think people were confused since there was the white-washing of comments and like and stretching the truth or the concept of too many free-passes! lol oh well todays the day they're actually right.

yes, I hope people can move on from that now. There are plenty of other things to critique, like the multiplayer, but the FFB/physics I think stands up well to anything out there...it feels in between RF2 and RRE, miles better than iRacing. ACC just feels too different for me to compare tbh, I don't hate the FFB in it at all, it just drives so differently I have to exclude it. I can hop from AMS2 to RF2 to iRacing quite easily, but ACC I'd have to dedicate 100% of my time to to be any good. Anyway, back on topic, once you add in all the other things AMS2 does really well, then really its only Multiplayer holding it back now in a major way. Racecraft is helping in that regard, and so are the others like JustRace and SimRacing.gp, but the dedicated server needs some attention.