Verstappen vs Leclerc - Overtake Fair or Foul?

[carham]

I find it coincidentally interesting that the Mercedes team found themselves not quite competative in Austria because of "temperature issues" over this weekend. Could it be, that the increasingly negative fan response over the continued lack of interesting racing, caused Mercedes independently, or possibly at F1's request, to take actions to make the racing more interesting.
If the fans lose interest, the sponsors will lose interest, and the venue will be lost to all those that use it for gain!

 

[JonnyCombat]

It’s almost as if they’re paid to win races.

They’re not there to make friends so short of shunting each other into walls I don’t see the issue with what Max did.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

Thats racing. Max was in front of charles he defence his line.

No he wasn't, see post 63 of this thread. Anyways, pretty much everyone knows you are a dutch fanboy.

 

[muzikant]

No he wasn't, see post 63 of this thread. Anyways, pretty much everyone knows you are a dutch fanboy.

everyone knows that your not a Verstappen fan. Its Never borring to see Verstappen racing

 

[delpinsky]

FIA is a joke.
Race stewards treat collisions in an unfair way, using different judgements in similar episodes.
Maybe because I'm biased here, but weirdly enough, Ferrari is always penalized... maybe it's just a random case, but when you have two or three episodes always against you, you start believing it's done on purpose.

They could have given Verstappen 5s penalty and maybe he would have won the same. But at least give him the panalty!

 

[Ryno917]

The FIA is at fault here.
That kind of stuff is terrible for the sport and especially for us, the audience.

We want to watch close racing WITH side by side action.
But this **** where the overtaking guy can just push the outside guy wide in a proper Hamilton-esque move ist simply terrible.

I'll never understand why the FIA doesn't implement a very simple rule that applies to tight corners:
If you are attacking on the inside, you gotta stay on the inside.

That way the outside guy gets a change to counter and there is a much bigger chance for a great run-off towards the next corner. Which is what the audience wants to see.

Firstly I admit I'm a fan of Verstappen. Secondly I'll admit I'm a fan of hard racing. Thirdly I'll admit I'm no fan of penalties for track action.

However, and this rubs me the wrong way to say it, but for me that move looked to be 100% foul, and worth a penalty based on recent decisions over the last 12 months or so.

Verstappen went up the inside, late but fair. Then made for a trajectory directly into the space of the Ferrari, with far longer than needed with the wheel held straight, directly planning to shut down any option for Leclerc to avoid contact and remain on the track, plus contact with Leclerc, leaving the Ferrari no option but to leave the circuit.

Ok so the investigation came back with no future action needed, so the discussion is purely academic now, but for me it was clear as the day is long that something should have been done about that, and the move wasn't fair.

My thoughts exactly. It's a poor move imho. This trend of pushing a car off the track is absolutely not hard racing, it's poor sportsmanship. That crap never would have flown in the 60s, and it shouldn't now. But the FIA has been allowing it for far too long, so they can't just give Max a penalty for it now (the Vettel situation was very different; I still disagree with that penalty but for different reasons). What the FIA needs to do is explicitly say that you are never allowed to run a car off the track while you are in control and start penalizing every instance of it. Shoving your opponent off the track is not passing, it's being a dickhead.

And I suppose the above comes with the disclaimer - I have zero loyalties to any team or driver in F1, I couldn't really care less who wins or doesn't, and the series is dull as paint drying, so don't take any of it as Ferrari/Leclerc fanboying.

 

[muzikant]

FIA is a joke.
Race stewards treat collisions in an unfair way, using different judgements in similar episodes.
Maybe because I'm biased here, but weirdly enough, Ferrari is always penalized... maybe it's just a random case, but when you have two or three episodes always against you, you start believing it's done on purpose.

They could have given Verstappen 5s penalty and maybe he would have won the same. But at least give him the panalty!

A penalty for a little kiss?

 

[Ryno917]

FIA is a joke.
Race stewards treat collisions in an unfair way, using different judgements in similar episodes.
Maybe because I'm biased here, but weirdly enough, Ferrari is always penalized... maybe it's just a random case, but when you have two or three episodes always against you, you start believing it's done on purpose.

After decades of the FIA bending over backwards for them, I wouldn't be upset by this.

 

[delpinsky]

Ok then... if you race online and someone does the same move against you, pushing you out of track and leaving you no space, letting you lose a potential victory, tell me if you are happy with that. I'm sure you will swear to the simracer who did that to you.
Verstappen is not the first time that pushes away other drivers, as if he can do anything to overtake.
But here the problem is that FIA stewards are blind as hell and treat accidents in a way that is unfair, different from race to race for the same episodes.

 

[keto95]

A penalty for a little kiss?

Do you realize that these small 'kisses' (as you call it) ruin his further chances for a possible topteam transfer in the future? Mercedes and Ferrari are already not interested in his services, let alone that these actions stimulate their interest. They don't want to be associated with that kind of driving, so enjoy yourself while it lasts. Maybe he should try the Indycars, but I can assure you that these walls don't 'kiss' gently.

 

[muzikant]

Do you realize that these small 'kisses' (as you call it) ruin his further chances for a possible topteam transfer in the future? Mercedes and Ferrari are already not interested in his services, let alone that these actions stimulate their interest. They don't want to be associated with that kind of driving, so enjoy yourself while it lasts. Maybe he should try the Indycars, but I can assure you that these walls don't 'kiss' gently.

Stuppid to deffence this.. but every team want Max. Wake up

 

[FormulaET]

2nd attack at same corner, clearly quicker than LeClerc.
It seems to me, Max had inside line and was slightly ahead during corner entry, LeClerc should've let him have it and it shows Max, pulled away after the pass... LeClerc's tyres didnt allow for him to make any fight for contention.... Max was pulling away.

 

[keto95]

Stuppid to deffence this.. but every team want Max. Wake up

Yes, Haas or Racing Point. Toro Rosso, then he can swap places with Kvyat.
You know what? RENAULT!

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Yes, Haas or Racing Point. Toro Rosso, then he can swap places with Kvyat.
You know what? RENAULT!

Sorry keto95, can't appriciate this, I'am sure you know better

 

[Appie Kuipers]

everyone knows that your not a Verstappen fan. Its Never borring to see Verstappen racing

That's why he has his own orangearmy.

 

[keto95]

Sorry keto95, can't appriciate this, I'am sure you know better

I strongly believe that these kind of actions will ruin someone's career.
Red Bull is his best option and I'm afraid that it's the maximum achievable for him. If they fail, he will go down with them. He has a reputation by now which will slam in his face like a boomerang some day. Just wait and see...

 

[PegaMixel]

That's why he has his own orangearmy.

Yes, its never bad to have a huge collective of people who believe in one driver only rather than the sport and defend his actions without any open mind for other, justified, opinions regarding bad situations happen to said driver. Or . . . wait a second . . .

Except some i know personally, i dont like verstappen fans to be honest. You'll see no other fanbase of any driver partying so hard when other competitors crash out or have a problem. The people who claim this as a "little kiss" while rioting against Ocon for Brazil when the sides are turned, the people who celebrated Ricciardos DnFs at Red Bull Race after Race after Race, but then throw heat towards Red Bull if their Hero has a issue and claim its the teams fault.

To be this narrow minded towards a single driver is destroying the whole aspect of being a fan of the sport. The FIA doesnt destroy F1, the ultras do.

 

[keto95]

That's why he has his own orangearmy.

They are actually McLaren fans.

 

[zwiss]

Max just does what he wants... and yes, he is talented. But if other drivers would drive as he does, there would be a crash with every encounter... I think sportsmanship and respect should be part of every sport.
Vettel dived in the hairpin Japan 2017 just like Max would do, and Max just closed the door (just watch the onboard footage.. he left no room, he lied post race).. He is unfair by nature.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

2nd attack at same corner, clearly quicker than LeClerc.
It seems to me, Max had inside line and was slightly ahead during corner entry, LeClerc should've let him have it and it shows Max, pulled away after the pass... LeClerc's tyres didnt allow for him to make any fight for contention.... Max was pulling away.

Of course he was clearly quicker than Leclerc - that doesn't give any rights to drive others off the track or anything. They were side by side - that has to be respected. If not you can just run people off the road whenever you like.
Well, unless it happens after you have rejoined the track of course!