I think its unfair, but I like hard racing, so I'm glad no penalty was given. But then why did Magnussen got 5 sec in Hungary 2017??
Verstappen vs Leclerc - Overtake Fair or Foul?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
@Luke Maney Max did a dive bomb, he even missed completly the apex. And of course feel to give your opinion why Magnussen got a 5 sec penalty in Hungary 2017? he did the same thing as Max, side by side, and leaving no space for a car in the outside. There is only diference, Max had no control of is line because the dive bomb LecLerc, and Magnussen had control of his line. To me both of them pushed the opponent outside the track.
Ghoults
Lasse Luisu
In f1 that is a legal move. You are perfectly fine to push other cars off the track in corner exits. It should not be legal because it is causing a collusion. If this kind of thing happens on straights it is a penalty but in corners it is ok. You can completely ram someone off the track in a corner and end their race and stewards will just clap their tiny hands in awe. But do it on the straight or braking zone and suddenly it is the olympics of video analysis.
I disagree very strongly with the idea that stewards should not affect the race results. If someone cheats, drives unsportsmanly or abuses track limits or causes a collision he deserves a penalty regardless if it costs him some positions on starting grid, race win or championship. Driver breaks the rules and driver should be penalized. If that kind of stuff should be allowed when the championship is on the line then make a rule that you can ignore the rules if you have mathematical chance to win the championship. Or make all the penalties just cost money. Or get rid of the stewards altogether and let them boys have at it.
I disagree very strongly with the idea that stewards should not affect the race results. If someone cheats, drives unsportsmanly or abuses track limits or causes a collision he deserves a penalty regardless if it costs him some positions on starting grid, race win or championship. Driver breaks the rules and driver should be penalized. If that kind of stuff should be allowed when the championship is on the line then make a rule that you can ignore the rules if you have mathematical chance to win the championship. Or make all the penalties just cost money. Or get rid of the stewards altogether and let them boys have at it.
Vettel said it himsefl, let us race, this is not kindergarden
so yeah racing incident, no penalty needed
but the consistency
I feel like the questions about decission in Canada played into this one quite a bit
we did see good racing though, so let's see if they allow them to be bit more rough and actually race
but at least be consistent with your decissions FIA
so yeah racing incident, no penalty needed
but the consistency
I feel like the questions about decission in Canada played into this one quite a bit
we did see good racing though, so let's see if they allow them to be bit more rough and actually race
but at least be consistent with your decissions FIA
f1 has lost its meaning...kids driving and bashing other drivers out of track and then another one weeps. fia and all the f1 drivers except kimi grow same pairs!
You have to be kidding. If you think Max can do no wrong in the FIA's eyes then you havn't been paying attention for the number of years he's been in the sport. The FIA hated Max joining because they thought he was too young and inexperienced, they preffered drivers like Alonso, Vettel, Kimi etc. They were so against Max joining that they changed the rules so drivers couldn't be fast tracked in to gaining a super license and if Max had try to join 1 year later then he wouldn't have been qualified enough for a super license to race in formula 1.
Definitely a two part question here.
Was it fair? In my view, no it wasn't. Sure Max did get himself up the inside in a daring move, but he also essentially just shoved Charles right off the track with contact. Being fully alongside, I don't think Charles had any obligation to back off and submit to the pass. As we say is our own races here on RD, it is up to the overtaking driver to do so in a safe, clean and fair manner, so the contact was Max's fault.
Did this incident deserve a penalty?
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
I'm not a Verstappen fan. In fact, I really don't like the guy at all and would much have preferred LeClerc or pretty much anyone else to win the race. However, "fair" pass or not, this is exactly the kind of exciting, aggressive, instinctive, opportunistic racing that we should be seeing each and every race in F1, but which drivers are too scared to try thanks to over-regulation.
Of course, that leaves me wondering where this leaves the stewarding of F1. Vettel makes an error and somewhat accidentally "crowds" Hamilton off the track and gets penalised. Verstappen deliberately "crowds" LeClerc off the track using actual physical contact, and he gets away with no penalty. Now there's inconsistency for you... unless intentional crowding is allowed and unintentional crowding is not?
The long and short of it is that part of the big 2021 shakeup should be that the entire rulebook it thrown out of the window, and F1 is taken back to basics. Give the drivers the freedom to race without fear of ridiculous penalties, and this is the kind of exciting, if controversial, action we will see in every single race.
Was it fair? In my view, no it wasn't. Sure Max did get himself up the inside in a daring move, but he also essentially just shoved Charles right off the track with contact. Being fully alongside, I don't think Charles had any obligation to back off and submit to the pass. As we say is our own races here on RD, it is up to the overtaking driver to do so in a safe, clean and fair manner, so the contact was Max's fault.
Did this incident deserve a penalty?
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
I'm not a Verstappen fan. In fact, I really don't like the guy at all and would much have preferred LeClerc or pretty much anyone else to win the race. However, "fair" pass or not, this is exactly the kind of exciting, aggressive, instinctive, opportunistic racing that we should be seeing each and every race in F1, but which drivers are too scared to try thanks to over-regulation.
Of course, that leaves me wondering where this leaves the stewarding of F1. Vettel makes an error and somewhat accidentally "crowds" Hamilton off the track and gets penalised. Verstappen deliberately "crowds" LeClerc off the track using actual physical contact, and he gets away with no penalty. Now there's inconsistency for you... unless intentional crowding is allowed and unintentional crowding is not?
The long and short of it is that part of the big 2021 shakeup should be that the entire rulebook it thrown out of the window, and F1 is taken back to basics. Give the drivers the freedom to race without fear of ridiculous penalties, and this is the kind of exciting, if controversial, action we will see in every single race.
It's the same old story over again, everyone want's to see this kind of racing until it happens to them, then they call foul. I would like to hear Vettel's view, since he's a Ferrari team member and one of the main protagonists of returning to the 'real way of racing' ?
What puzzles me is why LecLerc left the door wide open, surely he would have known, or the team would have told him, that Max was extremely strong at turn one and to position his car to force Max to the outside.
Now if you were Jacques Villeneuve you would come up with the crazy 'left field' notion that Leclerc knew his race was done and that he suckered Max to the inside knowing he would drift out wide through the apex, force him off the track, and hopefully receive a penalty.
What puzzles me is why LecLerc left the door wide open, surely he would have known, or the team would have told him, that Max was extremely strong at turn one and to position his car to force Max to the outside.
Now if you were Jacques Villeneuve you would come up with the crazy 'left field' notion that Leclerc knew his race was done and that he suckered Max to the inside knowing he would drift out wide through the apex, force him off the track, and hopefully receive a penalty.
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As I said in another thread, as a Ferrari fan I'm sad. But as a F1 fan I'm just delighted. In that two laps I was literally jump on the couch screaming (yeah, my wife probably though I was mad...)...in the first of joy and adrenaline because of the way Charles defended the position as they went wheel to wheel to the downhill...in the next screaming of anger because Max passed him. I don't like Max...not at all. Yeah I recon he's fast and very talented but never liked his attitude of bully (often, let's be honest, expecially in the past years, overprotected by the FIA...and if even Jaques Villeneuve - who's always been fair, straight and outspoken - stated that..)...but let's face it, it's a strong and fair overtake. Charles could have been too kind...but in my humble opinion the problem lies in the rules and what happend to Canada first and France later. Seb deserved the win in Canada, or if it was right to penalize him then Max should have been penalized too. It's unbelievble how, in a sport such Formula 1 they can't understand they absolutely need Always the three same judges in every track for the full damn season. What could be right for Pirro could be wrong for Montoya and so on...we need uniformity of judgment, drivers, team principals and fans need to know what is fair and what is not. I repeat, clean victory for Max as it was a clean victory for Seb in Canada...what Seb did there was unintentionally, he lost the car and tried not to finish in the wall...drivers of this era are like kids sometimes, when something doesn't go theyr way they just push the radio button and cryes, screaming and complaining wiht theyr mother (the box wall)...and I mean all 20 of them.Did Max pushed Charles a little tofar outside the track? Yeah maybe...but those are race. It's simple as that. As I stated before, the huge problem lies in the rules. What Binotto said after the race is absolutly right: "Max Verstappen is guilty of causing a collision and forcing Charles Leclerc off track in Austria"...he just used the same words that are in the rules. So, if Seb was wrong in Canada, Max was wrong here...if Fia still aplly different standard from race to race, we'll never get rid of this stupid stuffs...I'm a simple F1 fan...I just want to jump on the couch and screaming when I see a F1 race...and don't to wait 3 hours to know who has won a race...as simple as that.
Can't image what would have happened if the FIA instanly decided against that move.
They would have needed a real army to rescue the race-stewards.
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Stupid discussion again. MAX is a pure racer, he has balls. Drivers like Leclerc, Bottas etc don't have it. Liking MAX does not count, and thats also an issue overhere.
MAX was the fastest driver on track, even Vettel was slower with his new SOFTS
The Orange army is growing and growing, for the BEST DRIVER OF F1
MAX was the fastest driver on track, even Vettel was slower with his new SOFTS
The Orange army is growing and growing, for the BEST DRIVER OF F1
They are not in traffic, and be polite "after you". Why not appriciate great racing, overhere you all are talking about rules, rules are for the stewards, I am for the racing.
As others have said here, if we judge it with canadian GP in mind, it should require a penalty !
If we just talk about motorsport, I think it's a bit of an unfaire pass, but it's just a race incident. No danger, no car damage...
Come on FIA, let the races be alive. Stop judging the drivers like they were racing glass cars !! ... Oh wait, is glass stronger than modern F1 ??
In a close futur, drivers will have to first call a lawyer before they pass, so they'll know if it's legal or not !!!
Cheers !
If we just talk about motorsport, I think it's a bit of an unfaire pass, but it's just a race incident. No danger, no car damage...
Come on FIA, let the races be alive. Stop judging the drivers like they were racing glass cars !! ... Oh wait, is glass stronger than modern F1 ??
In a close futur, drivers will have to first call a lawyer before they pass, so they'll know if it's legal or not !!!
Cheers !
We clearly see that verstappen did not take the apex. He deliberatly pushed Leclerc out of the track, it was planned.
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