Verstappen: Daring or Dangerous?

[David O'Reilly]

Max is fast but lacks judgement.
His RedBull debut was borne of pressure from Jos Verstappen who is one tough guy.
That debut in Catalunya involved some luck (Both M/Benz taking each other out) and then RedBull (deliberately or not) shafting Ricciardo when they decided to cover Vettel who pitted with the race leader!!! Like Monaco that Season RedBull cost Ricciardo a race win.

The result was an undeserved win and a "legend" was born.
The press here in the UK tend to "anoint" their heroes. Verstappen is one along with Vettel and Hamilton.
If he reads any of that press he will think he is "The future of F1, The new superstar" etc and just put more expectation on himself to be fast.
The best comparator is always the guy in the same car. Ricciardo is a total racer, the complete package. He normally outscores Max by a significant margin. He is the superstar. Someone above noted that Max's car was so much faster than Vettel and Hamilton in those final laps but his lack of patience cost him dear.Max is just fast.

 

[Mr Deap]

Looking at the common sense & grip perspective, Vettel turn late at very slow speed & cut the racing line at the apex.

Look at Vettel Pole lap when he start to turn at 1:20.

Rewatch the sequence when Verstappen went into Vettel.

Basically Verstappen was on the racing line & Vettel basically cut him off by re entering the racing line. It's well staged, but kind of a super dirty tactic in my perspective. Most people are blind & forced the FIA to punish the wrong person.

The title of the thread is misleading & proof show that the other person is actually dangerous.

 

[Koen Verlinde]

Qualifying lines are not the same as racing time lines, basically every decent simracer knows this.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Basically Verstappen was on the racing line & Vettel basically cut him off by re entering the racing line. It's well staged, but kind of a super dirty tactic in my perspective. Most people are blind & forced the FIA to punish the wrong person.

The title of the thread is misleading & proof show that the other person is actually dangerous.

I may not change your mind by replying but will point out a couple of things;
Max had no overlap at all at the turn-in point so really can't command any racing room. As such it was a late lunge and he bears the risk. Vettel is entitled to take his line and need not leave any room, the corner was his, he left some room anyway. Had he (Max) pulled the car up with good control (see Ricciardo move) it would have been a clean pass.
Even Max has taken responsibility and apologised to Vettel.

To claim that there is some kind of planned dirty move that involves you risking being hit and damaged seems a little imaginative.

 

[paracletus]

It might be that MV just needs to keep a level head - very talented but some of the superstar status might have gone to his head a bit; perhaps getting a bit too cocky at the moment which is costing him potential podiums.
This thread is too much fuss over not a lot though (i.e. the calls for demotion etc, are way over the top). Thankfully, these claims are limited to racedepartment.

 

[Mr Deap]

Vettel didn't actually completely shut the door & both driver screwed it if I take my time to watch it carefully. Although every F1 drivers are complete nuts & are total danger whatever how safe you think they are.

EDIT:
They news makes story out of nothing just to get sensation.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Hamilton today: Max is like me when I was Young, I have great respect for him and his racingtalent and skills, he will get there! Finaly someone who knows the racingworld, better then all those desktop hero's on this forum!

 

[Lesley Buurlage]

better then all those desktop hero's on this forum!

so far you've been the biggest one around so what's your point?

 

[Appie Kuipers]

so far you've been the biggest one around so what's your point?

so far you've been the biggest one around so what's your point?

My point is, its easy to burndown someone who can't defend himself. That's why I quoted Hamilton statement. From the side line it's easy! That's why!!!!!!!!

 

[Ari Antero]

My point is, its easy to burndown someone who can't defend himself. That's why I quoted Hamilton statement. From the side line it's easy! That's why!!!!!!!!

The latest influential voice to weigh in on Verstappen is three-time F1 world champion Niki Lauda, who has called into question whether the young Belgian driver is learning from his mistakes:

"Seems like reason doesn't get through to him. You normally rise with your mistakes. But he's getting ever smaller. In this case it also seems to be a question of intelligence."

"Lauda, above many people, has reason to talk about Verstappen's mistakes having been seriously injured in a crash at the 1976 German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring during which his Ferrari burst into flames and he came close to death.
Lauda's concerns about the lack of adjustment and learning on Verstappen's part seem increasingly justified with each new incident involving the Red Bull driver.
Other drivers will surely be worried about going into battles in the future with the Belgian considering his repeat offences."

 

[Fat-Alfie]

...Niki Lauda, who has called into question whether the young Belgian driver...

If he thinks Max is Belgian then I'm not sure I can anything he says seriously

 

[Ari Antero]

If he thinks Max is Belgian then I'm not sure I can anything he says seriously

Born in Hasselt Belgium > Belgian-Dutch > Dutch nationality.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Looking at the common sense & grip perspective, Vettel turn late at very slow speed & cut the racing line at the apex.

Look at Vettel Pole lap when he start to turn at 1:20.

Rewatch the sequence when Verstappen went into Vettel.

Basically Verstappen was on the racing line & Vettel basically cut him off by re entering the racing line. It's well staged, but kind of a super dirty tactic in my perspective. Most people are blind & forced the FIA to punish the wrong person.

The title of the thread is misleading & proof show that the other person is actually dangerous.

That's how it is! Some overhere don't see that.

 

[Ari Antero]

That's how it is! Some overhere don't see that

Indeed
Verstappen Senior acknowledged the ill-timed move on Vettel was a mistake Max needs to avoid in future.
The overtake on Vettel really wasn’t on. That wasn’t possible. It was an error of judgement.
He needs to have it under control. He needs to think. Last weekend was very painful, but we’ll have to talk about it and analyse what happened in a normal way. This can’t happen.

 

[Patrik Marek]

it was absolutely text book "dive bombing" that we see and "love" in sim racing

 

[Esploratore]

Saw some fun videos being posted here, particularly liked the senna schumacher one at 92 magny cours, at 1:15 they say schumacher is attacking senna, at 1:22 they say, someone crashed, it's schumacher, on who? Senna, didn't take long!

But on topic, I wouldn't consider myself a fan of any current driver, only of MSC, but among the current drivers my favourite are alonso, hamilton and verstappen, I think verstappen has traits from schumacher and senna, fast, good in the rain, aggressive, good at defending, generally good at overtaking, all or nothing approach (from senna ofc), and if you look at what he achieved in his first 3 years it's resembling of schumacher.

However 2018 is schumacher's 1994 and look at the case red bull is finally able to challenge ferrari and mercedes on pace since the first race, so so far in 2018 it's verstappen himself who's coming short of the potential of the car.

I think the attempt on vettel was far too risky and he definitely had the speed to come back in 2nd place, to think he was chasing bottas and raikkonen despite being pushed a bit off the track by hamilton and the crash on vettel.

He also took too much risk on the outside with hamilton and even in bahrain, while it was a great overtake, he left him too little space and that turned out to only ruin verstappen's race.

I hope he can start being more of a calculating driver, like ricciardo, on his overtakes, cause he really should have won china, he was faster than ricciardo and ahead before taking on hamilton, and like I said this red bull is quick, they have great drivers, so if they perform at their typical level they should really be able to challenge ferrari and mercedes for regular wins.

Apart from that, I don't agree that the penalty wasn't enough, obviously it's not fair that you can just take out a driver, perhaps a championship contender like verstappen did and gain points on him, but certainly it wasn't the intention, consider that even without the penalty verstappen lost 2nd place and was 4th at the flag due to the spin derived from the contact, so that already wouldn't be a situation he would be satisfied with, even without penalty.

 

[snyperal]

One thing I havn't seen discussed yet;

How often do you see an f1 car make contact and spin another car and not take massive damage? normally it's a front wing, or a puncture. I know that vettel took a little damage, but nothing that ended his race. It just shows you how close to actually pulling the move off he was. A few more inches and he would've probably made it stick. That's quite something under those conditions.

Better luck next time maxxy.

 

[Enagee]

Some are gonna love it some will hate it...... All drivers have incidents its how you learn from it....

 

[Sky]

clumsy, more than anything.

 

[Richard Dastardly]

Into F1 too young, that's all. Need more top rank feeder series.