'SimShaker - Wheels' support thread

[=Andre=]

Here you can get help with "SimShaker - Wheels" issues and questions.

SimShaker - Wheels is a mediation software between a supported car simulation game and Gametrix JetSeat or well known Buttckicker hardware to provide immersing event driven vibration FXs (special effects).
Currently supported PC titles: iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Automobilista, rFactor 2, DiRT Rally, Project CARS, Project CARS2, ETS2, ATS, F1 2016/2017 and RRRE.
Currently supported console titles: F1 2016.

 

[=Andre=]

Thank you. What settings on the screenshot defines a sound source?

 

[anton_Chez]

Thank you. What settings on the screenshot defines a sound source?

There ya go. There is a drop menu to select all different outputs, that's the one I use for tactile, onboard sound.

 

[=Andre=]

Ok, it worth trying to disable exclusive control in SSW than.

 

[anton_Chez]

Yes it worked for me definitely. Doing it via Windows setting only makes SSW force you to re-enable to use it.

I would suggest maybe a check box to enable/disable in SSW settings menu, if it is not detrimental to the operation of the software. I would assume it wouldn't be.

 

[=Andre=]

Yes, may be a checkbox.

 

[Mr Latte]

Anton, good to hear that its working with SSW, cheers to Andre for that simple fix.
Just to point out with PEACE as its quite a remarkable software EQ you can hit the "green wave line" to get a frequency chart. Then apply a (high pass filter) combined with the gain you use and changing the "Q" factor. Its possible to apply a filter to do a linear decrease for smooth transition than using various sliders. Even with a single filter or control to cover a decrease in Hz that can eradicate this issue. It may take a few trials but we highlighted a long time ago how simple this was and beneficial for Buttkicker Mini/Gamer owners for it to get very little response.

What Des found worked for him when testing (SV FXXL 918 Engine) but using iNuke DSP may/should transfer over or be worth reading perhaps. Here

This "Piston Pang" issue for me goes back to 2012.
A guy form AVS forums did a video and shared some views making reference to some of my own evaluations/testing of (BK Mini . BK Mini SE, BK Gamer) and what ensued (foamgate) with BV at GTPlanet. His video and testing is Here (shared before) with links in his description. He mentions something in his video I too was finding waaay back then and in my early usage of different tactile that the MIni series can be rather fussy with below @35Hz.


All this, however could go over some peoples head for a lot of early adopters to tactile and is something that needs to be worked with caution. Someone following this thread and not understanding things making changes within PEACE EQ could potentially do harm rather than good.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes, may be a checkbox.

Dont forget a "Mute ALL" feature (cough)

 

[Ceolmor]

Dont forget a "Mute ALL" feature (cough)

As posted earlier, if you have the Asus Xonar DGX card, you can map a mute to a button on your wheel or button box or a keyboard. As it then mutes SSW, while sitting in the pits it acts like an ignition switch for the engine.

I think I found this .....

1. First download a small app called Xonar Switch This controls the Xonar DGX soundcard, containing controls for volume, up to 8 channel mixer, an equalizer and crossover. Importantly, it also has the facility to create different profiles and to control some functions on the fly with keyboard shortcuts, including muting volume and switching between profiles.

2. When you install it you should get an icon on your desktop like this

3. When you click on this to open the app, nothing appears to happen. However, on your taskbar on the right [I am on Windows 10] this icon

should appear. If not, click on the ^ symbol on the same taskbar and you should see

there.

4. If you double click on

, Real Time Settings will come up. You might want to come back and look at this later.

5. If instead you right click on

a menu box appears.

6. Click on Options and this box appears

7. Click on Shortcuts. Hit the key or keys on your keyboard you want to assign to mute sound, or even control sound level if you want.

I use Xpadder to map keyboard shortcuts to buttons, switches and dials on my wheel and button box, but I think Hotkeys and others do the same. So now I have a switch I can toggle to mute the vibrations from my Buttkickers whenever I want, in DiRT Rally or any other sim. And it works.

Going back to 5 above. At top of the menu is Profiles. Click on this and then on New and you can create and save a profile. This might be handy for those of you who have a zillion tactile transducers and want to experiment or have different mixer or equalizer settings for different cars/sims.

 

[Hiro Abe]

As posted earlier, if you have the Asus Xonar DGX card, you can map a mute to a button on your wheel or button box or a keyboard. As it then mutes SSW, while sitting in the pits it acts like an ignition switch for the engine.

Hmm... I wonder if I can do this with my setup. I can see how this can come in handy. Will investigate!

 

[anton_Chez]

@Mr Latte I feel that if people don't realise that the pang is not normal and that there is a way to get rid of it, they will ruin their experience with tactile from the outset. It's really terrible and I feel like I am going to hurt the units definitely. In no way could you use them while they are randomly going off like that. I knew something was up straight away, and because I've had Aura's before I know that you can push them too far and they can sound very bad, not giving the intended response in the process. I followed that thread a little I think, and was embarrassed to read it. As a business owner it seemed hard to read at times. But anyway, we all know how that ended and to say it's not disgraceful would be lying.

Thanks for the tips I am going to have a play with the EQ and SSW settings now and see how I can improve the experience before trying your customs

 

[anton_Chez]

Just to point out with PEACE as its quite a remarkable software EQ you can hit the "green wave line" to get a frequency chart. Then apply a (high pass filter) combined with the gain you use and changing the "Q" factor. Its possible to apply a filter to do a linear decrease for smooth transition than using various sliders.

I tried having a look at this and instantly had anxiety! Too complicated for me I think.

Edit: Being stubborn as I am I went back and tried to work out what you meant. See the screenshot, I think I have found a nice balance between cutting out troublesome hz and keeping a decent low end.

I have tested 20hz and it feels normal. Under 10hz and between 20-30hz is the weird point. Took me one go! I think any Buttkicker Mini LFE users should have this software and this profile saved for any program they decide to use their units for. Including audio tactile. 20hz feels DEEP with these things, really nice and NO rattle. Then, if you feel your tactile is too heavy still in certain hz, just use the overall gain slider to adjust the whole EQ linearly. I've been testing SSW with this curve as well as running about -5db and it's a great balance to the heavy and loud nature of the stock audio files.

 

[Ceolmor]

@AntoN_CheZ You might want to look at alternative ways to attach your Mini LFEs to your rig to see if this helps to solve the pang problem.

I say this because previously even though I had my identical Buttkickers fixed in an identical manner left and right of my seat, the left BK gave a fuller, bassier response to the one on the right, even with all settings the same. Neither were giving me piston pang.

So I changed how they were attached, again bolting both left and right in an identical manner. The result is that now, with the settings identical to before, the left BK is now giving me piston pang, while the right one does not. I have no idea why? Will have to experiment?

Just a thought.

 

[anton_Chez]

@Ceolmor that is interesting. Thing is, before I mounted them to my cockpit, I had them bolted to a timber coffee table, and this is the first time that I used them and the first time that I heard it. So a solid mount, nothing that can move except for the piston, the mount is secure. Same thing happened on a similar mount (just a temporary one until the SimLab ones came), this time, not as secure (mount hangs off the secure point with the mini attached to that part, able to bounce when the piston is hammering at higher levels) and then now, in a similar manner, but on a thicker mount (3mm as opposed to the temp one of 1.6mm, so you would assume less flex). All the same issue. Definitely an issue with the units and the way they produce tones in that sub 35Hz range. Even after that screenshot I posted earlier, I still had to tweak the lower range a little. I was not getting any noise with .wav files of various sub 35Hz frequencies (10, 20, 25, 30) but SSW was still producing tones that troubled the mini's with Road Bumps. So I tweaked it a little further, see below.

Slight tweak to slightly reduce the surrounding area around 20Hz, seems much better and able to run a higher gain on Road Bumps (useful to get larger impacts to feel significant) in combination with a higher filter value to only give you the meaningful bumps and no constant noise. I use Road Surface for that, seems to be a much higher Hz used which portrays texture better.

Thanks for the suggestion though, I am not sure if relocating is going to help fix it but it will definitely make the energy transfer less than where it is.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hmm... I wonder if I can do this with my setup. I can see how this can come in handy. Will investigate!

As Rob stated this was covered earlier.
I was trying to be funny poking fun at giving Andre, even more, to add/do with SSW

I wanted manual control via hardware for each channels volume.
So will use 4 channel pre-amp and have this installed beside the seat.

Nobody else seems interested in these though, its just a Rodders thing perhaps....
It is very handy however with the amount of testing I do with effects to be able to turn on/off any channels output from my seat.


Hope to catch up on some other posts another time, too tired.

 

[Mr Latte]

@Mr Latte I feel that if people don't realise that the pang is not normal and that there is a way to get rid of it, they will ruin their experience with tactile from the outset. It's really terrible and I feel like I am going to hurt the units definitely. In no way could you use them while they are randomly going off like that. I knew something was up straight away, and because I've had Aura's before I know that you can push them too far and they can sound very bad, not giving the intended response in the process. I followed that thread a little I think, and was embarrassed to read it. As a business owner it seemed hard to read at times. But anyway, we all know how that ended and to say it's not disgraceful would be lying.

Thanks for the tips I am going to have a play with the EQ and SSW settings now and see how I can improve the experience before trying your customs

Yes avoid having an installation that behaves like these
Such are not good examples but its obviously what some people put up with...

If I talk any more about isolation or isolators and things to consider doing or applying I am going to vomit.

At the moment reduce your soundcard outputs to represent the same idea as having effects with less amplitude. I am willing to say you will get much better performance as I stated the 0dB is too hot from what you are describing as happening with your tactile and current amp hardware etc.

PEACE does have a good clipping tool that you can use if you want as well.
Take note of what it does to your dB

 

[Mr Latte]

@Ceolmor

View attachment 250870

Slight tweak to slightly reduce the surrounding area around 20Hz, seems much better and able to run a higher gain on Road Bumps (useful to get larger impacts to feel significant) in combination with a higher filter value to only give you the meaningful bumps and no constant noise. I use Road Surface for that, seems to be a much higher Hz used which portrays texture better..

Deskane noted from his test, with iNuke DSP PEQ usage that:
20Hz at -6db and 30Hz at -3dB had a good result

Your chart looks not too far from that but different soundcards/amps and amplitude of effects all have their own factors of what reduction you need to apply. You have a big drop on 20Hz and part of that may be this amplitude issue you have. IIRC default effects use 40Hz quite a bit so 20Hz is a "subharmonic" of 40Hz. Combine that with multiple effects operating and using the same Hz. Well lets say I have a sneaky feeling this is a factor with the current files your using. Also why your having a drop continue past 40Hz

Your own tests are appreciated as they seem to be confirming that the 20-30Hz region as "center values" is controlling much of this issue these units have.

Using a PEQ will have more definitive result on specific Hz than maybe a crossover filter but you can of course combine both a filter slope/curve and individual Hz adjustments with the PEQ controls.


Apologies for 3x in a row, Im shattered

 

[anton_Chez]

How do I make it so that 40hz is basically 0db? When I reduce the gain of say 25hz and then adjust the Q, it still gives me a curve that I can't seem to raise enough at 40db without raising the gain of 25db, or that range which I am trying to reduce. Is there a way to get 40hz higher that I am missing?

Does that look any better? From the curve it looks like the 25hz range is nearly back to 0db but on the sliders part it still maintains that it's -23, so I wonder if the graphic representation of the settings is just visual and a little misleading? I haven't had a chance to test it phyiscally, just playing with the settings since you mentioned the 40hz thing. I was wondering myself could I get the curve a little sharper rather than losing all the surrounding hz to a certain extent that aren't causing problems.

Let me know your thoughts @Mr Latte, this is too confusing for me!

 

[Mr Latte]

Maybe this thread isnt best for this as its nothing really to do with SSW and may confuse people.
This is NOT recommended for beginners as its very much likely more complexed than they can handle.
I can edit this post later if Andre wants this discussed somewhere else?

If some seek to use PEACE EQ then it is a powerful tool and can bring different EQ even for each channel. If people have different units on various channels then be aware of this as you then would want to have individual EQ for the specific models or units installed. I personally don't use this as do what I need regards EQ via the iNuke DSP and the additional features it brings.

So from a quick look at it, not from using or testing a BK Mini this below is only an illustration or example. I have in this case boosted 5Hz with a drop for 10Hz and notch for 20Hz then gradual climb back up to 40Hz. I dont know how well the Mini will handle these settings or if that boost of 3dB with 5Hz causes an issue. Also you can have a much deeper or tighter notch by altering the Q factor.

I think Andre uses 40Hz for most effects, this as discussed in many posts on these forums is a peak frequency on many tactile models. Some units may even need a slight reduction with around this frequency. Take note that when several effects are in operation and using the same frequencies (in this case if all default are 40Hz) then the amplitude increases for this frequency when multiple effects are operational at once. This combined with default effects created with a 0dB amplitude I believe is potentially one reason/factor you or others have found effects overbearing when trying to increase the SSW slider gains. Even with reasonable amplifier settings.

You need to do frequency tests with 5Hz 10Hz 20Hz 30Hz 40Hz etc Then alter the slider values required to maintain control with this Bk Mini/Gamer sub 35Hz issue. You may need to reduce 20Hz more than -6 but keep in mind you want to limit what you have to cut and potentially slightly boost the lowest Hz if you can. Small gains here can help towards controlling but maximising the potential out of the unit.

If you have reverb or a form of ringing/pinging with the 8020. Some higher frequencies, perhaps 70-80Hz may be a cause and lowering this will help. Note however different materials have variations that cause reverb. Some frequency sweeps help you determine if its an issue with your own installation.




I hope to get some files sent to you by tomorrow.

 

[anton_Chez]

Thanks Rod that's great info. I think I need to do what you have done and shorten the range of hz in the EQ chart there as mine goes to 20Khz which is not giving me the granularity that I need to achieve that level of adjustment around the trouble area. Agree to have this moved to it's own Peace thread or deleted entirely from this thread as it is not SSW related and more related to curing various unit deficiencies.

 

[Mr Latte]

It gets a deep topic. Yes altering from 20 kHz would be a good idea (lol) You can also increase the detail of the chart and alter the thickness of the line. See the options in settings.