'SimShaker - Wheels' support thread

[=Andre=]

Here you can get help with "SimShaker - Wheels" issues and questions.

SimShaker - Wheels is a mediation software between a supported car simulation game and Gametrix JetSeat or well known Buttckicker hardware to provide immersing event driven vibration FXs (special effects).
Currently supported PC titles: iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Automobilista, rFactor 2, DiRT Rally, Project CARS, Project CARS2, ETS2, ATS, F1 2016/2017 and RRRE.
Currently supported console titles: F1 2016.

 

[=Andre=]

I wouldn't say I recommend that. What particular settings values will be used by a user is mainly out of my scope. My task is to provide possibility of adjustment as the user likes. I'm rather a programmer than a racer, I'm not trying to manage user experience a lot.
If you ask me how it works, I answer as simple as I can. But explaining complex things by simple words seems to be not my gift.

 

[Mr Latte]

I wouldn't say I recommend that. What particular settings values will be used by a user is mainly out of my scope. My task is to provide possibility of adjustment as the user likes. I'm rather a programmer than a racer, I'm not trying to manage user experience a lot.
If you ask me how it works, I answer as simple as I can. But explaining complex things by simple words seems to be not my gift.

Okay thanks for clarifying that really its down to the user to go with what they prefer.
The options I have been working on for files will allow a user to find an effect/strength via choosing one with a suitable amplitude, regardless if they want to use only 50% or 100%.slider value.

The reason for asking is that few people likely even noticed the difference with acceleration/deceleration if 100% is used compared to 50%. That by increasing the slider value it was doing more than just increasing the gain of the effect.

So I was enquiring if other effects would of been affected in a similar way, for instance, Lateral G.
I can monitor these of course with the tools you know of but doing that takes time to see an effect operating at 50% or say 100% to help determine if the activity of the effect is altered or just the gain.
I may do this at a later time just out of curiosity being the tactile nerd I am.

Please note however I am not seeking to learn or nosey into what methods you use in your software but just have an understanding what the sliders alter for each effect if indeed it is not just solely gain.

 

[TomD]

just have an understanding what the sliders alter for each effect


this is what I really need. I am a bit confused on them myself

 

[anton_Chez]

Actually audio signal doesn't reach SSW, that's not the way it works. I suggest you should select your EQ input in SSW sound card selection drop down in order to include EQ in the sound chain.

Still having trouble getting the EQ (Peace) to have an effect in SSW. I can get my sound to alter when just playing music, I can alter SimVibe output with it, but SSW still seems to completely ignore its existence. Andre I have looked in the drop down box for SSW sound card selection, and only the physical cards are present. I have 2 sound cards and the Oculus.

Not sure what to do from here. I really want to cut the bottom range out of my Mini LFE's so I can explore what SSW has to offer. Speaking of which, @Mr Latte, I have scoured the forums for hours trying to locate some custom files of yours to start learning how SSW works, both in the tuning and also in the way the folder system works to allow dropping in of files.

Little help.... ?

 

[Mr Latte]

Still having trouble getting the EQ (Peace) to have an effect in SSW. I can get my sound to alter when just playing music, I can alter SimVibe output with it, but SSW still seems to completely ignore its existence. Andre I have looked in the drop down box for SSW sound card selection, and only the physical cards are present. I have 2 sound cards and the Oculus.

View attachment 250578

Not sure what to do from here. I really want to cut the bottom range out of my Mini LFE's so I can explore what SSW has to offer. Speaking of which, @Mr Latte, I have scoured the forums for hours trying to locate some custom files of yours to start learning how SSW works, both in the tuning and also in the way the folder system works to allow dropping in of files.

Little help.... ?

This isn't really the thread to cover all this
You know me as well, I can make a 1 line sentence become 3 paragraphs lol.

I delayed releasing the effects, based on two factors, Andre brought the new surface effect and in what I discovered with how acc/dec worked meant I wanted to alter these as well. I also found a new solution to help improve within the mix for an effect a way to increase the compatibility with various tactile (mentioned above).

Im not an audio engineer or expert on this by any means but have self-taught myself (youtube etc) to become more efficient with it all. Much of it has been progression and trial and error. I have easily surpassed making over 1500 files in Audacity in the time I have been working on this. I don't seek just to get files that work well for my rig, this work I have taken on (self-interest) will help to improve everyone's tactile and usage of SSW.

I will make a response in the general tactile thread covering more.....

 

[anton_Chez]

All good. Just having a play with it now and have come to realise without being able to run EQ with it, I am super limited in what the base files give me. The accel / decel stuff seems to be pretty good, but I have to run it at a very low gain otherwise it's a mess. With a little more gain and responses over 35hz I think it could work quite well. I know Andre has responded to me before but I wonder if there is another thing I could try to make the software EQ take effect with SSW?

Also I seem to be getting not much at all from the front mini, and everything coming from the back? I know front/rear separation is not a strong point of SSW but is there something I can do to help it?

I am still tossing up what effects to keep as I know you can't keep engine with the accel decel signal, it's just too much. I was thinking either engine / road surface or accel decel / road surface. I feel these give the best value for money while not splitting up the signal too much. Gear, bumps and wheel slip can come from the motion platform, as well as the DD wheel. A little road chatter really rounds out the experience, specially with curbs and rough spots.

 

[Mr Latte]

Your confirming the issue I highlighted to Andre that his files using 0dB are much too strong on some peoples combinations. I think judging by some other peoples comments that the SMSL amps may have a high input level or form of internal pre-amp stage for the source input prior to full amplification. So having that combined with a 0dB rather than say -10db or -20dB .wav for the effects means for you its coming in too hot. I would assume if your amp had a clipping indicator it may possibly be clipping also.

I will rework on engine effects too, its coming man but we get the best engines when combining telemetry load based tactile also with the audio tactile. This brings the load energy that audio doesnt have, yet the audio brings the actual cars, character. Im sorry but those that want the very best engine sensations that's the way to go about it.

Yes Andre could improve engine more, but in all honesty while enjoyable or entertaining the engine is not as important as feeling the other effects that highlight the cars handling. Well thats what I find. You should also consider placing the engine effect on separate tactile as this can ensure the detailing of the other effects is not masked so much. Really though people will always find their own preferences.

 

[anton_Chez]

Definitely a little too hot for my setup. I am running out of room to turn it down, I am at like 10% on any setting I use. I feel that if I get rid of the troublesome range then I can tolerate a lot more gain or at least work around it differently.

Happy to wait for files, I just thought there were some floating around that I could muck around with for now, compare the stock ones with that. I really hope I can get this EQ working with SSW, I can get it to affect everything except SSW. It totally ignores it. For the engine, I am actually pretty lucky that Fanaleds gives me awesome engine tone through the wheel, that actually transfers all the way to my seat. I was amazed how much I felt. I could remove engine completely from tactile to substitute for G force or run only road surface.

 

[Mr Latte]

Definitely a little too hot for my setup. I am running out of room to turn it down, I am at like 10% on any setting I use. I feel that if I get rid of the troublesome range then I can tolerate a lot more gain or at least work around it differently.

Happy to wait for files, I just thought there were some floating around that I could muck around with for now, compare the stock ones with that. I really hope I can get this EQ working with SSW, I can get it to affect everything except SSW. It totally ignores it. For the engine, I am actually pretty lucky that Fanaleds gives me awesome engine tone through the wheel, that actually transfers all the way to my seat. I was amazed how much I felt. I could remove engine completely from tactile to substitute for G force or run only road surface.

I am happy for you not to wait but try some if you want> Then you can determine if they are . It saves me however a lot of hassle if you have 6 channel mode being used even if you are running 4 units. Just confirm you have that and I will send some over in the next day or so.

 

[anton_Chez]

I moved from 4 to 2 units in my upgrade. The 4 Aura's are gone and I have 2 Mini LFE's, one front and one rear. I wanted to simplify the tactile while getting better units.

 

[Mr Latte]

I moved from 4 to 2 units in my upgrade. The 4 Aura's are gone and I have 2 Mini LFE's, one front and one rear. I wanted to simplify the tactile while getting better units.

Okay will see about modding some files for front/back 2 channel. but hey, no stereo crosstalk issues then lol

However, what way are you currently using/connecting your units as this may also be an issue with SSW (still) for front/back 2 channel tactile installations and not using 2 channel L/R via stereo that SSW base files seem configured for.

So for example do stereo effects like Lateral G work via you feel them for left channel in pedals and right channel in seat but not both operating together in mono over your front/back config.

Err, if you catch my drift?

 

[anton_Chez]

I get what you mean but I feel that the seat one is doing the majority of the work. Like right now I don't have pedals attached and my feel are ON the mini, and I can't feel it. The seat one, no problems. However I am not running lateral so I might be missing a clue there as to something being like you describe. The bumps feel natural but then again, it might just be coming from the seat. When I hit the TEST button it seems like both fire normally, though.

 

[Mr Latte]

I get what you mean but I feel that the seat one is doing the majority of the work. Like right now I don't have pedals attached and my feel are ON the mini, and I can't feel it. The seat one, no problems. However I am not running lateral so I might be missing a clue there as to something being like you describe. The bumps feel natural but then again, it might just be coming from the seat. When I hit the TEST button it seems like both fire normally, though.

Well you need to ask Andre if and why support for files configured for 2 channel "front and rear" NOT just 2 channel "left and right" are gonna be available. It has been rasied before and many people will have front/rear installations with 2 channels.

Clearly if someone uses the stereo channels and left to front and right to rear then any stereo based effects are split. That is just plain wrong, so we need to have files that operate in MONO for such an installation as that is what it is with Dual Mono channels. Users shouldn't be using STEREO placed L/R effects over FRONT and REAR, no, no, nooo, noooo, noooooo.

We need I think to currently alter the files in Audacity to suit your 2 Channel Dual Mono config.

 

[anton_Chez]

Yes that is pretty weird. Is there a way to run 'mono' but output to 2 units? Left and right in the one amp? If I select mono on the config screen, I take it that it will only output to a single unit although I haven't tested it myself. Gotta get to bed but look forward to more info on this. I'll test out the mono thing tomorrow and see what effects are doing what when in stereo.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes that is pretty weird. Is there a way to run 'mono' but output to 2 units? Left and right in the one amp? If I select mono on the config screen, I take it that it will only output to a single unit although I haven't tested it myself. Gotta get to bed but look forward to more info on this. I'll test out the mono thing tomorrow and see what effects are doing what when in stereo.

Yes there is but currently, a user would have to create in Audacity a custom configuration and effects arrangement.

 

[=Andre=]

The reason for asking is that few people likely even noticed the difference with acceleration/deceleration if 100% is used compared to 50%. That by increasing the slider value it was doing more than just increasing the gain of the effect.

So I was enquiring if other effects would of been affected in a similar way, for instance, Lateral G.
I can monitor these of course with the tools you know of but doing that takes time to see an effect operating at 50% or say 100% to help determine if the activity of the effect is altered or just the gain.
I may do this at a later time just out of curiosity being the tactile nerd I am.

Please note however I am not seeking to learn or nosey into what methods you use in your software but just have an understanding what the sliders alter for each effect if indeed it is not just solely gain.

I've maid a couple of diagrams regarding gain sliders to clarify the subject even more. As you can learn from the Picture 1, if a resulting (overall) gain for an effect exceeds max possible level of 100, it will be restricted (inside SSW due to internal logic) at level of 100. If the gain slider is set to 25% clipping occurs at much higher input values from the game, than if gain slider is set to 50 or 100%. This is actual for the effects featuring unclear upper input signal border, for instance based on accelerations, tire wear, slip, damage, etc.

Therefore, operating in the green area and operating in the orange area (see Picture 2) are pretty different, having the same input values, but different gain slider values. In the orange area gain may be partially clipped, but not in the green area.

 

[=Andre=]

Still having trouble getting the EQ (Peace) to have an effect in SSW. I can get my sound to alter when just playing music, I can alter SimVibe output with it, but SSW still seems to completely ignore its existence. Andre I have looked in the drop down box for SSW sound card selection, and only the physical cards are present. I have 2 sound cards and the Oculus.

OK, I see now, thank you.
1) I'd like to see a screenshot of your EQ settings.
2) You can try to disable Exclusive Control mode in SSW by editing its "C:\Users\%Username%\AppData\Local\SimShaker-Wheels\CommonData.cfg" file.
Shut down SSW,
open the file with any text editor and replace <Exclusive_Soundcard_Control Value="True" /> with <Exclusive_Soundcard_Control Value="False" />,
save the file and start SSW again.

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay thanks but Im still a bit confused what your showing regards having a wav at 0dB -10db and -20dB as the lower db for the wav used even with high slider gain may not equal the overal gain of an effect with using say 0dB wav but the set to 30-40% slider value? We dont know as such what dB gain your slider varies from 1% - 100%.

Will need to relook but IIRC I found with acceleration, using a lower dB based .wav and higher slider gain setting. In this case it felt like the effects operation/activity was increased to a higher speed or duration and more satisfying.

Using a 0dB .wav we cant go that high with the slider value as it generally can feel too much and this may even be before clipping occurs, we cant tell. Yet in doing this and using say 30% slider gain with a 0dB wav I personally found acceleration to offer less immersion and fade out at a lower speed or duration.
Maybe I need to relook and confirm this.

It appears from some feedback that -10db may suit some peoples hardware combos and enable mid-high slider volume. The issue I feel is that it depends on the the .wav and the frequencies it uses, then the users hardware as to what may suit the model/type of tactile they own.

Yet as some are reporting with -0dB (default .wav effects) they cant go beyond @ 20-30% or it feels overbearing, espically with smaller BK units as piston pang can be an issue as 40Hz is often around many units peak frequency output. So it may be that 0dB with lower slider value could be potentially counteractive regards the tactile unit's general composure, detailing and performance.

Would it be possible or beneficial to consider making a clip indicator for each effect? I dont know how much work this is or your thoughts on it. However, this way a user could see when your software was restricting the data.

Interested to learn more...

 

[=Andre=]

Okay thanks but Im still a bit confused what your showing regards having a wav at 0dB -10db and -20dB as the lower db for the wav used even with high slider gain may not equal the overal gain of an effect with using say 0dB wav but the set to 30-40% slider value? We dont know as such what dB gain your slider varies from 1% - 100%.

Changing signal strength in 100 times corresponds 40 dB,
50 times - 34 dB,
20 times - 26 dB,
10 times - 20 dB, and so on.
There are free online converters.

Would it be possible or beneficial to consider making a clip indicator for each effect? I dont know how much work this is or your thoughts on it. However, this way a user could see when your software was restricting the data.

I think that's possible. Currently you can see the gain value in the log window. If it's reported as 100% number of times, for the effects I have mentioned above, most likely that was restricted.

 

[anton_Chez]

OK, I see now, thank you.
1) I'd like to see a screenshot of your EQ settings.

Thank you Andre, I am going to try that now. While I do that, here is a screenshot. I simply cut the frequencies below 35hz to a much lower gain that everything else, and if that's still too much and I get the piston knocking, I will drop them even further. I am testing at what level the piston knocking disappears without actually muting that range completely. At least that way I get something from that low range without the obnoxious noise, that is probably going to hurt the unit in the mid to long term.

Edit: You're a legend Andre! That's it. Fixed it completely. EQ has taken effect straight away. Now I can play with the settings more and when I get the kind fellow Mr. Latte's test files I can have some fun on the weekend! Provided UPS does their job and finally deliver the remaining missing parts of my rig...... We'll see. Thanks again!