Simagic M10

rjkoneill · Jan 14, 2020

Hi RD

Looking to upgrade my wheel at some point this year. Currently using a T300 with CSL LC pedals on a GT1 Evo.

My plan was to grab a CSL wheel or maybe a CS2.5 but this Simagic unit seems very affordable, especially compared to the cost of a fanatec clubsport base and any of their compatible wheels.

The wheel and quick release look really well built, good features on the buttonbox and plenty of mounting options on the wheelbase itself.

I know it's early days but what would be my main drawbacks considering a relatively new unit like this other than software support?

It looks like the torque figures are much lower than other DD bases, but would it be significantly more detailed than a belt driven unit?

My only experience with DD is a business meeting I had at Vesaro around 5 years ago when I worked at OcUK and it was mind-blowing but I think that opinion was swayed by the simulator as a whole and not just the wheel specifically. (I ran nords in their top of the range setup on the day).

I have only spotted a few videos on YouTube with brief overviews on the Simagic unit so I guess nobody has one in hand yet? I also know nothing about the development of this product or its background

super_gt · Feb 9, 2020

"One big problem. You need a contra-weight at the back or the seat will tip over forward. Otherwise it works perfectly well

"

Jason Mullin · Feb 9, 2020

Isn’t the playseat challenge basically a lawn chair with 3/4” hollow tubing supporting the base deck?

There’s no way I would mount a DD on that, would worry about my legs and feet getting smashed when the deck support arms broke off.

You must consider not only the physical weight of the base but also the horizontal forces a DD creates.

Build yourself a proper 80/20 rig, or use 2x4s if cost is an issue.

ao1977 · Feb 9, 2020

Let's see it this way: Currently I am running a Thrustmaster TX, which weights around the 5 KG mark.
Given the assumption I'd take the Simplicity MiGE, that's be an extra load of 3 kilos. I think that's managable, at least with a counterweight for good measure.

And thinking about weight, I am coming more and more to the conclusion that the M10 is no sensible option, as it is, as far as I could find out until now, way too heavy. Sorry for hijacking this thread.

Oh yes, I know these pictures of those guys who put a DD1 and similar on their Playseat Challenge, and I do think that's at least one step too far. I do expect a certain challenge (as the chair's name says, eh) to manage the open hinge without having the seat doing an instand cartwheel, but when it tends to tip forwards while closed, it cannot be healthy.

Speaking of which, @ColinMac: I do not leave the seat unattended. I only take it out of it's corner when our 4yo daugther is away to bed, and I wouldn't even leave it alone with her around in it's current setup with the TX base.
On the other hand it's proven more stable than expected in the last years (with me being quite a chunky dude), so at least I'll give it a try before I need to convince my wife that out living room needs some 80/20 decoration.

ColinMac · Feb 9, 2020

I do sort of admire this. You could get away with a wheeled TrakRacer RS6 - agreed it's hardly lounge friendly though. ShedRacer FTW ?

(My mate once got one, and threw a 'zebra' throw over it in corner of the lounge, hoping his GF wouldn't notice. I think it worked for 3 seconds !

)

rjkoneill · Feb 9, 2020

I wouldn't want to try a DD on that playseat.

ao1977 · Feb 10, 2020

rjkoneill said:
I wouldn't want to try a DD on that playseat.

Well, why not? I'm not planning to crank it up to 100% anyway. To be honest, even the TX, when at full force, gives me aching shoulders.

My situation is this: My current TX obviously reached the end of it's lifecycle. It shows the symptoms of a dying hall sensor (it's not a broken sensor mount as usual, already checked that), plus I have to run the motor recalibration tool every few days, as it loses its strength with time.
Also, the Thrustmaster's violent calibration process is that sort of thing that makes my wife just cheerfully nod and say "go ahead" when I tell her I'm about to buy a new base.

So, options?

Get another TX? Nah.
Upgrade to a TS-PC racer? I'm a bit tempted, but also nah. You cannot get the base without a rim, and that's still some 500€ for yet another belt driven base.
Switch to Fanatec? Well, if they hadn't locked themselves in in their ecosystem… I'm not willing to spend another 200€ just for an adapter to use my custom rim.
A DD wheel in the lower NM range for some 600-700€? I'm interested.

I know, in terms of flex and stability the whole setup is Barry Rowland's worst nightmare, but in terms of family compatibility and space that playseat is the only option right now.

ColinMac · Feb 10, 2020

I understand your plight. Give it a shot, I guess - it's the only way to be sure.

I think that storing the folded playseat with DD base attached will be a nightmare, but I wasn't taking into the account the weight of the existing base (I had a T500rs on ours) but it quickly became more trouble than it was worth. It's tricky if you don't have space though I can see. I think it'll be a topple waiting to happen unless you bungee it to the wall or similar.

I liked the seat in the playseat - it wasn't bad at all, I just couldn't get in and out easily.

Surprised that the Simagic is heavier than other bases tho. I did watch Will's teardown though and it does have a normal motor housing inside it's nicer case. Most DD wheels have some proper heavy cables running to them, and I'd want an all-in-one solution rather than a control unit. So for me, weight and issues aside, its Simagic, or Fanatec DD.

Moxley6969 · Feb 18, 2020

So Turns out the Simagic NA Distributor is local to me and Very Very Close by,

I stopped by and had a quick go with the M10 and Alpha, The location is a new setup still requiring some fine tuning which i have offered some help with, I should be visiting again soon.

daceaki said:
The QR on the Simagic is a rebranded D1 Spec QR from a Taiwan manufacturer, with standard 70mm bolt pattern. BTW, if you search Simagic on Chinese e-commerce website Taobao, you'll be surprised by the price at which it's sold in mainland China

Got a link to said D1 spec in 50mm Version with the electrical pass through ?

Deleted member 197115 · Feb 18, 2020

Moxley6969 said:
So Turns out the Simagic NA Distributor is local to me and Very Very Close by,

I stopped by and had a quick go with the M10 and Alpha, The location is a new setup still requiring some fine tuning which i have offered some help with, I should be visiting again soon.

Got a link to said D1 spec in 50mm Version with the electrical pass through ?

Looking forward to your impressions.
Thanks.

daceaki · Feb 18, 2020

Moxley6969 said:
So Turns out the Simagic NA Distributor is local to me and Very Very Close by,

I stopped by and had a quick go with the M10 and Alpha, The location is a new setup still requiring some fine tuning which i have offered some help with, I should be visiting again soon.

Got a link to said D1 spec in 50mm Version with the electrical pass through ?

I could only find this QR in 70mm, without pass through.

台湾D1方向盘快拆滚珠轴承式须安装于底座之上原装进口正品-淘宝网

欢迎前来淘宝网实力旺铺，选购台湾D1方向盘快拆滚珠轴承式须安装于底座之上原装进口正品,想了解更多台湾D1方向盘快拆滚珠轴承式须安装于底座之上原装进口正品，请进入mk92613的飛扬改装吧实力旺铺，更多商品任你选购

item.taobao.com

GagarynGaribaldi · Feb 18, 2020

ao1977 said:
Well, why not? I'm not planning to crank it up to 100% anyway. To be honest, even the TX, when at full force, gives me aching shoulders.

My situation is this: My current TX obviously reached the end of it's lifecycle. It shows the symptoms of a dying hall sensor (it's not a broken sensor mount as usual, already checked that), plus I have to run the motor recalibration tool every few days, as it loses its strength with time.
Also, the Thrustmaster's violent calibration process is that sort of thing that makes my wife just cheerfully nod and say "go ahead" when I tell her I'm about to buy a new base.

So, options?

Get another TX? Nah.

Upgrade to a TS-PC racer? I'm a bit tempted, but also nah. You cannot get the base without a rim, and that's still some 500€ for yet another belt driven base.

Switch to Fanatec? Well, if they hadn't locked themselves in in their ecosystem… I'm not willing to spend another 200€ just for an adapter to use my custom rim.

A DD wheel in the lower NM range for some 600-700€? I'm interested.

I know, in terms of flex and stability the whole setup is Barry Rowland's worst nightmare, but in terms of family compatibility and space that playseat is the only option right now.

Mounting a DD wheel to a Playseat Challenge sounds like the most stupid idea in the world!

However, I have done it - and with some easy modifications it works remarkably well. The modifications do impact it's foldability a bit - although it can still fold away to be put in a cupboard.

I have a DD2 mounted to a Playseat challenge, along with a Fanatec handbrake, shifter, V3 pedals, button box and a small monitor. It works brilliantly. I've used two 10kg ankle weights (20kg total) simply laid on the back foot to act as a counterweight, along with fitting two 15cm ram mount knock offs to the back of the wheel deck - affixed diagonally to the wheel deck uprights which increase the rigidity massively - this is what impacts the foldability. I've also doubled up on the velcro arm supports with addition of a pair of ratchet straps as insurance against collapse due to the increased weight.

I'll take some photos later but I can assure people that contrary to what you might think it works great - as long as the wheel deck is locked closed, with the modifications there is only minor flex - this has the benefit of acting as a ghetto motion sim as you feel it in your butt! I've been using it for over 6 months, peak torque usually around 12nM and it has been rock solid.

ColinMac · Feb 18, 2020

Lol. I applaud this determination - pics please !

GagarynGaribaldi · Feb 18, 2020

View attachment IMG_4009.jpg

GagarynGaribaldi · Feb 18, 2020

ColinMac said:
Lol. I applaud this determination - pics please !

There you go.

Moxley6969 · Feb 18, 2020

daceaki said:
I could only find this QR in 70mm, without pass through.

台湾D1方向盘快拆滚珠轴承式须安装于底座之上原装进口正品-淘宝网

欢迎前来淘宝网实力旺铺，选购台湾D1方向盘快拆滚珠轴承式须安装于底座之上原装进口正品,想了解更多台湾D1方向盘快拆滚珠轴承式须安装于底座之上原装进口正品，请进入mk92613的飛扬改装吧实力旺铺，更多商品任你选购

item.taobao.com

Nah. Thats not it. I didn't inspect the 70mm super close, but it did have the "locks open" feature when you release and remove, so While it may be a similar style or look in some regards, its MUCH higher quality than the cheap 15$ units you find on Ali/Ebay/baba and i would know as i have a few of them from way back when and thinking the cheapo's would work or survive. (didn't even make it past initial mock up due to the internal play they have)

Add in the Lack of 50mm version anywhere on the market, means they likely had these units custom spec'd to their needs.

Andrew_WOT said:
Looking forward to your impressions.
Thanks.

For sure eh.

ao1977 · Feb 18, 2020

GagarynGaribaldi said:
Mounting a DD wheel to a Playseat Challenge sounds like the most stupid idea in the world!

However, I have done it - and with some easy modifications it works remarkably well.

Haha, love your spirit, man! How does your playseat handle the LC brake? I modded my T3PA (non-pro) with a 20KGs LC, and after some corners those red plastic screws gave up and the pedals went flying. So I drilled holes in the tubes and fixed them with bolts.
Next, the nylon brackes between the seat and the pedal holder gave up and the pedals went flying again. I wrote Playseat about my issue and they kindly sent me a bag full of those brackets. Three of them do the job now.

BTW I also had ankle weights in mind.

GagarynGaribaldi · Feb 18, 2020

I've been expecting issues with the red clamp screws and/or the brackets but all been fine so far. You'll see I have the pedals raised on a tray thing that has an angled cushion underneath - it's designed to sit a laptop on your lap. That has two advantages - raises the pedals a few inches and also increases friction (the whole thing is on an old yoga mat) so maybe relieves some pressure on the pedal arm things. This chair was bought as a temporary thing as an introduction to sim racing - initially had a CSL Elite on it and raced on PS4 - didn't want to spend much and wanted to check I would enjoy this lark enough to invest. A DD, PC, and Valve Index later you can maybe tell I'm enjoying it. The deck chair does not lessen the enjoyment.

Chrhun · Feb 18, 2020

I think we are slightly off-topic, but I had CSW and otherwise pretty similar setup on my Playseat Challenge. Also a Buttkicer. I think the seat was fine, but the whole thing got very heavy and I simply got tired of dragging it around and connecting all the cables. I led to me driving less, and then I decided to go for SimLab.

daceaki · Feb 19, 2020

Moxley6969 said:
Nah. Thats not it. I didn't inspect the 70mm super close, but it did have the "locks open" feature when you release and remove, so While it may be a similar style or look in some regards, its MUCH higher quality than the cheap 15$ units you find on Ali/Ebay/baba and i would know as i have a few of them from way back when and thinking the cheapo's would work or survive. (didn't even make it past initial mock up due to the internal play they have)

Add in the Lack of 50mm version anywhere on the market, means they likely had these units custom spec'd to their needs.

Simagic QR is 70mm bolt pattern only if I'm not mistaken