Simagic M10

rjkoneill · Jan 14, 2020

Hi RD

Looking to upgrade my wheel at some point this year. Currently using a T300 with CSL LC pedals on a GT1 Evo.

My plan was to grab a CSL wheel or maybe a CS2.5 but this Simagic unit seems very affordable, especially compared to the cost of a fanatec clubsport base and any of their compatible wheels.

The wheel and quick release look really well built, good features on the buttonbox and plenty of mounting options on the wheelbase itself.

I know it's early days but what would be my main drawbacks considering a relatively new unit like this other than software support?

It looks like the torque figures are much lower than other DD bases, but would it be significantly more detailed than a belt driven unit?

My only experience with DD is a business meeting I had at Vesaro around 5 years ago when I worked at OcUK and it was mind-blowing but I think that opinion was swayed by the simulator as a whole and not just the wheel specifically. (I ran nords in their top of the range setup on the day).

I have only spotted a few videos on YouTube with brief overviews on the Simagic unit so I guess nobody has one in hand yet? I also know nothing about the development of this product or its background

ColinMac · Jan 14, 2020

I've a DD1 and use it at 35% of it's power. It's perfectly powerful enough at that setting - so I think this wheel may do really well at this price point.

I think the feedback will be much better than any belt driven wheel (bearing in mind that the software that drives these motors is a key component), and coupled with the fact that the wheel and QR look pretty damn good, I think it represents amazing value.

The wheel in particular looks amazing. Carbon paddles. Plenty buttons. My universal hub and R300 fanatec leather wheel almost cost £500 (and I've no carbon nice paddles) so they're perhaps going to have to pull their socks up.

I think I'd jump. If it's not for you, you'll be able to sell it on easily enough.

Chrhun · Jan 14, 2020

I find these very interesting! I run DD2 at 50% and not full gain in games, so I'm using roughly 10Nm anyway. What I've already learnt is that a lot is made by the drivers and software - Fanatec just updated theirs and the improvement in the feel was quite surprising. I hope the Simagic guys have enough resources to keep the software to the apparent level of their hardware.

ColinMac · Jan 14, 2020

Agreed. What he said. Of course they will know that to get a foothold as a new contender that support of products will be crucial.

I think I'd gamble after a few more in-depth reviews. I got my dd1 as an early bird for around 900ukp but of course no wheel (I had several Fanatec wheels already though)

GEO147 · Jan 14, 2020

How much are they?

ColinMac · Jan 14, 2020

790 inc wheel and quick release iirc.

See gamermuscles preview on YouTube.

GEO147 · Jan 14, 2020

Yeah that appears to be quite good. Wheel looked of very good quality too. Interesting times. The Fanatecs and Simcubes will have to take note of new dd market rivals and adjust their pricing accordingly.

rjkoneill · Jan 14, 2020

ColinMac said:
I think I'd jump. If it's not for you, you'll be able to sell it on easily enough.

This is what got me thinking. How many DD users actually use 100% FFB? The bundle does seem to represent good value and if it wasn't for me then I'm sure I could recoup the majority of the money back easily.

I have plenty of time to decide as I was thinking of making the jump later in the year. May use the time to monitor the early adopter feedback and see how the driver support develops.

If it does disrupt the market and bring prices of other units down then fair enough but until now DD has been off my agenda as I didn't want to go that wild with the budget. It's a different conversation with the Simagic unit in the mix as it displaces the clubsport 2.5 and wheel combo I was considering initially.

Cote Dazur · Jan 14, 2020

rjkoneill said:
This is what got me thinking. How many DD users actually use 100% FFB?

It is getting me re-think the whole DD thing. How many of us are even using the maximum strength of our T500 or CSW 2.5? I am not even using the full strength of my CSR elite, it is too much, not realistic with the vast majority of the cars we are driving in our simulators.
Since I got tactile I am much less dependent on FFB for immersion or for FFB to communicate stuff that should not be felt in the wheel.
The quality of the experience of a DD or other wheel is much more dependent on the software feeding the motor than how strong the motor can turn.
In its present form, FFB is a flawed experience at best, getting into tactile and motion to fill the gaps is probably a more efficient approach to realism and immersion.

rjkoneill · Jan 14, 2020

my personal standpoint on that would be that a motion element to my setup would simply not be possible due to space constraints. I would rather invest in a better monitor and steering wheel solution to enhance what I already have. until now DD was off the agenda due to budget but I am rethinking this now, hence the thread.

I would agree that FFB effects designed to offer pointers on what would normally be a motion platforms job are offputting but don't really become noticeable for me with my current T300 setup as there is shortcomings in that wheelbase due to its budget build quality.

found this video just now which provides some good insight into the system.

Cote Dazur · Jan 14, 2020

rjkoneill said:
I would rather invest in a better monitor and steering wheel solution to enhance what I already have

If you still are driving with one monitor, I would strongly advise in exploring VR as a first step. or at the very least triples.

rjkoneill said:
with my current T300 setup as there is shortcomings in that wheelbase due to its budget build quality

What short comings does a T300 have that you hope a 'better' wheel will make a significant difference.

Tactile does not take room, does not break the bank. I would take an average wheel with tactile over a "better" wheel without tactile, now that I know and have experienced it, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

A decent wheel is all we need, we do not need more until we have everything else done right, like : VR, load cell, tactile.

Upgrading the wheel is what is often discussed as it is painless and easy, but it also does not do much to improve the immersion, same goes for a slightly better resolution or bigger screen, easy step but also almost useless. If they are not broken, replacing them is probably not the most efficient way to enhance immersion.

rjkoneill · Jan 14, 2020

Sorry. Should have mentioned I have VR but prefer to just swing my monitor arm around and use a screen sometimes. Especially for longer stints. So an ultrawide is on my list at some point to enhance that aspect of sim racing as well as benefiting regular PC gaming.

The T300 isn't bad by any stretch. It's good for the money and has served me well enough. I'd like more wheel options and the thrust master ecosystem is pretty limited in my view which is why I wanted to go with a more detailed wheelbase. I've tried a CS2.5 and really see it as a worthwhile upgrade but had discounted DD options due to the price until now.

silvestrre07 · Jan 15, 2020

rjkoneill said:
my personal standpoint on that would be that a motion element to my setup would simply not be possible due to space constraints. I would rather invest in a better monitor and steering wheel solution to enhance what I already have. until now DD was off the agenda due to budget but I am rethinking this now, hence the thread.

I would agree that FFB effects designed to offer pointers on what would normally be a motion platforms job are offputting but don't really become noticeable for me with my current T300 setup as there is shortcomings in that wheelbase due to its budget build quality.

found this video just now which provides some good insight into the system.

Besides the Chris Wolf review you have also the Laurence Dusoswa unboxing and he took the wheel to Birmingham this past weekend

And there is a new video from Monday ....

This new DD is getting very interesting

Hiro Abe · Jan 15, 2020

Color me very interested. I'm totally digging their GT4 rim and their qr. Their Alpha model also looks nice. Looks like an SC2. My main concern is their support infrastructure and software development. Good thing I'm in no rush to replace my CSW.