Cars NFS Tournament Class B 1.6

[Avo77]

View attachment 331686

Hmm almost like we've tested it ourselves. Mind any inaccuracy in the 3D offset, that's been solved since. Also didn't align the cambers or rear height exactly to the video. *shrug*

I was comparing with one BestMotiring video and IMHO the lift is way lower IRL (also in the image you posted the simulated 993 turbo appears to have higher lift).
I appreciate the accuracy and research you put in physics development but in this case something seems to be off.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Compare the wheel angles. 3D isn't guaranteed to be completely in the right spot.

Although in my 911s as well, in some situations there appears to be too much lift. Probably an error in AC's internal forces somehow affecting the front too. In 2nd onward, it appears correct, but in the hardest accelerations, sometimes, compared to some examples of the car, it's off, and for some, it's not.

This is in 2nd for example. The angles *look* very different, but they're not, the lines are directly copypasted from the left and dragged over and scaled a bit bigger. Only front is off a bit, maybe, but too hard to tell with how the 3D is. So the 3D offsets are likely to be more off than the physics, at least in this scenario.

 

[Avo77]

This last picture seems better and in general the turbo appears closer to reality.
Is it possible to measure easily the suspension strokes in AC (Acti is not working anymore on my rig)?
In second gear at full acceleration the load transfer should cause about 30mm of lift (considering perfectly vertical stroke and the implemented stiffness of 22kN/m).

Visually it seems higher but maybe it is just my impression.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Open telemetry app and check, although it's a bit rough, being realtime and all.

I looked myself, and it's 110mm at static and 80mm approaching rev cut in 2nd gear in the Turbo which is 30mm difference: lowest recorded 64.9mm at maximum accel in the gear.

I remember strut having some weird force issues when a friend tested, like some kind of automatic adjustment for MR hardcoded or something. Maybe it gets messed up in some scenarios, like higher droop distances.

 

[CobraCat]

Great mod as usual.
Phisics wise my impressions about the 993:
- excessive front lift in acceleration (from videos it seems to be much lower).
- irrecoverable 'lazy overseer' at high rear sideslip angles. I understand it must be harder to manage due to the rear weight bias but it seems too much... I tried to remove the bump-stops/lower the center of gravity and it is greatly improved so it is probably due to an imbalance between front and rear stiffness at maximum side load.

I suggest you to take a look at the data

 

[aphidgod]

It's also entirely possible that the forgotten update to the C2's inertia box is causing the spinning issue... so hold off judgement there until we can update it. Or just change it to 4.130 on the z axis since you have the files open. Some tweaks were made to balance in light of that, and those also may not be helping at the old value, so it's definitely not as-intended right now.

Front lift is what it is. It may be a little severe, but if so it's not by much, and anyway I've tried everything to fix it and it's just not happening. So this is what it is.

 

[A3DR]

I was comparing with one BestMotiring video and IMHO the lift is way lower IRL (also in the image you posted the simulated 993 turbo appears to have higher lift).
I appreciate the accuracy and research you put in physics development but in this case something seems to be off.
View attachment 331751

The C2 in the video is EU spec, I believe the US spec sits higher, so there would be more lift at the front.

 

[Avo77]

View attachment 331833

Great video, thanks!
My impression is that the real life lift in first gear is quite similar to the simulated one in second gear.
Probably most of the difference in simulated car can be found in three aspects:
- missing compliance of bushings that can add in some cases up to one third of the total vertical stiffness
- variation of motion ratio during suspension stroke (not simulated in AC)
- friction forces (relevant in struts due to constant side load on the sliding elements)

I know those components are very difficult to take into account but IMHO they can lead to relevant discrepancies (up to 40% compared to just constant spring stiffnes simulation).

 

[aphidgod]

We're done here. Move on.

 

[hal4000]

Would be nice if somebody could convert this mod for AC.
The "Ability To Read" mod.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/comments/1145223801

 

[Chris Kennedy]

Really nice cars
Noticed on the ZR-1 that the rear view mirror doesnt seem to be working (using vr)
also the ZR-1 sound seems to be a bit crazy in a reverb zone, e.g. try highlands from hotlap spawn, driving through the village and then when you leave is a huge change in sound

 

[Johnr777]

Really nice cars
Noticed on the ZR-1 that the rear view mirror doesnt seem to be working (using vr)
also the ZR-1 sound seems to be a bit crazy in a reverb zone, e.g. try highlands from hotlap spawn, driving through the village and then when you leave is a huge change in sound

I think anything to do with reverb, is more of a track issue than car.

 

[Some1]

Noticed on the ZR-1 that the rear view mirror doesnt seem to be working (using vr)

I don't have VR, so I cannot investigate...

 

[Chris Kennedy]

I think anything to do with reverb, is more of a track issue than car.

hmm, taking the c7 stingray on the same track the issue isn't there, i think the reverb zones play back some of the external car sample to your interior view, which suggests the interior and exterior levels might be unbalanced

I don't have VR, so I cannot investigate...

False alarm, reinstalling the car fixed it.. odd, sorry for wasting your time!

 

[Some1]

False alarm, reinstalling the car fixed it.. odd, sorry for wasting your time!

np, I'm glad there's no issue

 

[Błażej Wianecki]

Hi.
Just a little problem with the carrera.
I have taken the 993 around targa florio a few times now. Not really periodically correct but let’s ignore that There is a very long straight towards the end of the lap. The car has always felt quite lively there but still stable enough to be enjoyable. It kept you busy, more than other cars. I quite liked it. I found it believable.
Unfortunately once I left the rear wing in the down position by mistake. After exceeding about 220 kph (137 mph) the car became lethal and that’s no exaggeration at all. Barely controllable. It needed constant, significant corrections. First time I crashed. Second time I managed. Just. That behavior I found less believable.
I know the car is supposed to drive at high speeds with the wing down. But I highly doubt the result of lowering it would be that severe. After all, some earlier versions of 911 had no wing at all. Not even a ducktail. Let’s take a 1967 911r for example. It was still capable of reaching 254 kph with correct gear ratios. With shorter wheelbase and much worse, narrower tires. No one sane would go that fast in the car that unstable.
I’ve done the testing on street90s with advised pressures (33/35).

 

[Kyuubeey]

Yes, it was that bad. Older 911s have more lift in the rear, by a small margin. However they also have 10x~ more lift in the front and a significantly more understeery suspension.

 

[CobraCat]

Perhaps somewhat easier to drive in real life due to the seat of your pants feel although I'm sure none of us can match the skill of those early 911 drivers.

 

[Błażej Wianecki]

Yes, it was that bad. Older 911s have more lift in the rear, by a small margin. However they also have 10x~ more lift in the front and a significantly more understeery suspension.

But your point about older 911s kind of confirms my suspicion. They would be completely undrivable if the 993 with the wing down and street90s is that bad at that speed. We are talking about driving in the straight line after all. I don’t mention any kind of cornering. That cannot be done. Also I haven’t witnessed any car in ac ever that was anywhere near that unstable.
I can try to provide some kind of video reference in the afternoon. But for now, please, try it for yourself. You’ll see I’m not exaggerating. Find a long straight with surface that’s not perfectly flat. Last section of targa florio is perfect for the job.

 

[Błażej Wianecki]

Here is a quick video on the matter:

Edit: Also, I cannot go past 256. With the wing up the car exceeds 267 or thereabout. I am not sure what it says exactly. Might be more to do with me yanking the wheel constantly.