F1 Canadian Grand Prix: Vettel Penalty... Deserved or Unfair?

[mussorgsky]

I don't understand how people can say that because Hamilton had to react to Vettel losing control, Vettel should get a penalty. Since when is having to have your eyes wide open and attentive when racing is not the default situation? Lemme just plow through people at turn 1, it's their fault they lol, why are they making me react and pay attention

 

[SinAporia]

I don't understand how people can say that because Hamilton had to react to Vettel losing control, Vettel should get a penalty. Since when is having to have your eyes wide open and attentive when racing is not the default situation? Lemme just plow through people at turn 1, it's their fault they lol, why are they making me react and pay attention

On a road, if a car in front is loosing the control, are you gonna break or do you put your foot to the metal? Since he needed to break for the corner, he could just touch the break, slide to the inside and pass. But he went for the gap that was closing - simple matter. I saw it at the 1st glimps that this is never ever going to work.

 

[Serge.M]

Whether you call it compromising somebodies lap or blocking, it amounts to the same. OK, my choice of words wasn't the best, but Vettel made a mistake and almost came to a stop, on the racing line, right in front of the guy he was racing - causing Hamilton to stop. At this point, he has seriously disadvantaged another driver.

So? How dare he make Hamilton react to an unpredictable situation? Vettel made a mistake, it cost him speed and time, Hamilton had to react, he chose to react by braking, again, that’s racing. He could have slowed more initially, and gone around on the inside of the track. Vettel was already on the grass, he was clearly going to be fairly out of control and close to the wall on the other side, remember the thing is still doing 200km/h or so on the grass and on slicks, not like you have much say where it’s going.

 

[Denis Betty]

So? How dare he make Hamilton react to an unpredictable situation? Vettel made a mistake, it cost him speed and time, Hamilton had to react, he chose to react by braking, again, that’s racing. He could have slowed more initially, and gone around on the inside of the track. Vettel was already on the grass, he was clearly going to be fairly out of control and close to the wall on the other side, remember the thing is still doing 200km/h or so on the grass and on slicks, not like you have much say where it’s going.

But Vettel was on the left side, away from the racing line (as he should be) when Hamilton went for the gap on the right. Then Vettel moved to the right and blocked Hamilton. Vettel made the mistake, he had no right to the racing line because he was not yet up to racing speed. Penalty all day long.
I get the feeling that people are allowing their judgement to be clouded by personal favouritism. If you guys were in a RL race and somebody did what Vettel did to you, you'd be going mental. All of you.

 

[Copef1]

I can see both sides of the argument. For the sake of a good race, I wish they hadn't penalized Seb. The incident was entirely Seb's fault, and I can understand why he got the penalty. It sucks, because either way people are going to be unhappy about it. The one thing I will say though, is that anyone in this thread who is trying to put any of the blame on Hamilton are completely out of their minds, and are therefore very hard to take seriously.

 

[SinAporia]

But Vettel was on the left side, away from the racing line (as he should be) when Hamilton went for the gap on the right. Then Vettel moved to the right and blocked Hamilton. Vettel made the mistake, he had no right to the racing line because he was not yet up to racing speed. Penalty all day long.
I get the feeling that people are allowing their judgement to be clouded by personal favouritism. If you guys were in a RL race and somebody did what Vettel did to you, you'd be going mental. All of you.

He didn't go there on purpose. As he wanted to trottle up the car unsettles again and vettel hat to correct again. And surely it had nothing to do with any favourite driver or stuff. We had that kind of politics once in F1 with Prost and Senna at Suzuka.
You can clearly see it in the replays that Vettels car unsettles at least twice. I mean i don't count the time on the grass, but hey someone will do i'm sure. 1st at the entrance of that corner and 2nd when came back on track and tried to trottle up. Cars unsettle he need to correct, came on the racing line because the car wanted to step out to the left. Vettel looks into the mirror after he got the car stable again.

I don't know you, but if you can keep a real F1 car in that position out of the wall, good for you. As for me, i would crash in that moment as i step onto the throttle. Its not like a racing game, no game can simulate that feeling. They are close but not close enough.

 

[Denis Betty]

He didn't go there on purpose. As he wanted to trottle up the car unsettles again and vettel hat to correct again. And surely it had nothing to do with any favourite driver or stuff. We had that kind of politics once in F1 with Prost and Senna at Suzuka.
You can clearly see it in the replays that Vettels car unsettles at least twice. I mean i don't count the time on the grass, but hey someone will do i'm sure. 1st at the entrance of that corner and 2nd when came back on track and tried to trottle up. Cars unsettle he need to correct, came on the racing line because the car wanted to step out to the left. Vettel looks into the mirror after he got the car stable again.

I don't know you, but if you can keep a real F1 car in that position out of the wall, good for you. As for me, i would crash in that moment as i step onto the throttle. Its not like a racing game, no game can simulate that feeling. They are close but not close enough.

Stewards looked at it and decided on a penalty. I don't know you, but I'm guessing they know more about what went on than you do.

 

[SinAporia]

Sure they did, thats why we got this big discussion here. At the end it doesn't matter what we think. Stewards ruled it, Ferrari decided they will form a complainment against that, and we need to wait and see.

 

[billymitchell]

I'm not a Ferrari fan, heck I despise Vettel at times, but the stewards overreached on this one.

 

[ram10]

Vettel re-joined the track unsafelly and blocked Hamilton. Thats a fact.

The question is: was it intentional or was it due to low grip?

If it was due to low grip, then I think no penalty should have been given.
Else, If it was intentional, then penalty was right.

His head movement looking at his right mirror before he blocked hamilton is very suspect. But if its not possible to prove it was intentional, then I think no penalty should have been awarded.

 

[Serge.M]

But Vettel was on the left side, away from the racing line (as he should be) when Hamilton went for the gap on the right. Then Vettel moved to the right and blocked Hamilton. Vettel made the mistake, he had no right to the racing line because he was not yet up to racing speed. Penalty all day long.
I get the feeling that people are allowing their judgement to be clouded by personal favouritism. If you guys were in a RL race and somebody did what Vettel did to you, you'd be going mental. All of you.

I think you are seriously miss interpreting what you saw, Vettel didn’t move anywhere of his own choosing, he flew across the grass completely out of control at that stage, lost the rear end over the curb, corrected that slide and only then he was able to steer again at which point he just held the line but there was nowhere near enough width left between him and the wall for another car. Key point is he had no control as to where the car was going at all until after he corrected the slide when it was back on track

 

[Maxman01]

I believe a penalty should only be used if the actions on track have effected the racing, i.e. killing the racing by gaining an uncompetitive advantage, rather than killing the racing with a penalty as was done here. This is a racing series therefore we want to see racing! Comprendez stewards?

 

[ears]

The point I am making is that if you presume that Vettel is not in full control of the car (which seemed to me) Lewis is going for a gap which doesnt exist. Lewis isnt blocked by Vettel, he's driving into the path of Vettel who is shooting back on track barely keeping control of the car (which is not deliberately rejoining a track in full control of the car)...

You mean this gap?

At this point Seb has lost his right to the racing line because he's made a mistake and gone off the track. He has surrendered his right to the racing line.

So if there's a gap there, Lewis is more than entitled to go for it, and he did. In fact it wasn't a gap really, it was just his natural racing line.

What I wonder is, does Seb have his right foot flat to the floor at this point? Because if he does, and it looks like he does, then he's in control of the car.

If he lifts off the accelerator, can he straighten the car up and keep it left off the racing line?

I think the answer to both of those questions is yes.

So, in my opinion, Seb avoidably impeded Lewis on the racing line.

 

[SinAporia]

You mean this gap?

View attachment 309818

At this point Seb has lost his right to the racing line because he's made a mistake and gone off the track. He has surrendered his right to the racing line.

So if there's a gap there, Lewis is more than entitled to go for it, and he did. In fact it wasn't a gap really, it was just his natural racing line.

What I wonder is, does Seb have his right foot flat to the floor at this point? Because if he does, and it looks like he does, then he's in control of the car.

If he lifts off the accelerator, can he straighten the car up and keep it left off the racing line?

I think the answer to both of those questions is yes.

So, in my opinion, Seb avoidably impeded Lewis on the racing line.

At this point Vettel tries to get the power down, 2 frames ahead and you can clearly see, that his back steps out. And driving slowly in that corner would be more dangerous that trying to put the power down. Hamilton could've just slow down a bit, seeing Vettels car steps out, slide to the inside and done. Vettels could spun in any of these moments, but Hamilton knows it, and goes for it. Just to many points that could either way - i think a warning and maybe a 5 grid penalty for the next race would've done it as well. If you would be really harsh.

But so close to the race end - i would've let the penalty decide after the race.

 

[Edison5do]

Just leaving this here..

And This one Too:

 

[Edison5do]

You mean this gap?

View attachment 309818

At this point Seb has lost his right to the racing line because he's made a mistake and gone off the track. He has surrendered his right to the racing line.

So if there's a gap there, Lewis is more than entitled to go for it, and he did. In fact it wasn't a gap really, it was just his natural racing line.

What I wonder is, does Seb have his right foot flat to the floor at this point? Because if he does, and it looks like he does, then he's in control of the car.

If he lifts off the accelerator, can he straighten the car up and keep it left off the racing line?

I think the answer to both of those questions is yes.

So, in my opinion, Seb avoidably impeded Lewis on the racing line.

Yeah, this gap too..

 

[ears]

At this point Vettel tries to get the power down, 2 frames ahead and you can clearly see, that his back steps out. And driving slowly in that corner would be more dangerous that trying to put the power down.
.

Well first of all it's not a corner, the track is straight at that point.

And I've been through the footage. There is, perhaps, a small wiggle after that, but that's consistent with acceleration - so it can only mean that Seb's recovered and continues to floor it - and drift right - in order to block Lewis.

I actually have too much respect for Seb - as a racer, as a winner, as a champion, to believe that he didn't try to block Hamilton and defend his position, protect the win.

It's what winners are made of and that win was just too important.

Did he attempt to block Hamilton on the racing line? In my opinion, yes, absolutely.

Were the stewards correct to penalise it? In my opinion yes, because the rule clearly states that it's forbidden.

Should the rules allow for more leniency? Yes, probably. Maybe a bit of judgement and a 'two strikes' rule.

Of course, what will happen is the rules will be made more lenient, because all the Ferrari / Seb / general non-Mercedes fans demand it for the good of racing, then the same thing will happen in reverse - Lewis will block Seb - and he'll get away with it because everybody wanted more lenient rules.

See you in a year!

 

[ears]

Yeah, this gap too..

The video had been posted in various threads a number of times before you proffered it two posts in a row.

And it's clear that its penalty outcome is contradictory to this incident.

However there have also been several posts about the Verstappen / Kimi incident which happened much more recently (2018 as opposed to 2016) where the penalty was consistent.

I guess that didn't support your opinion though, so you decided not to 'just leave that here'.

 

[muzikant]

I agree with you 100% 5 sec. to Max is a joke and indeed FIA has many stupid rules like giving 5 sec.for unsafe release to Max which should be penalized with 10 sec stop and go.
Now you are of course thinking that I am writing this just be-course it is Max but you are wrong. Any driver who looses his position be-course unsafe release (puncture Bottas) done by other driver should get possibility to get his position back, no mater who it is.

Hey Ari stuppid rules kills racing

 

[GianmarcoFiduci]

I am surprised about the results of the vote, cause in the end we are racers here, most of us had incidents because people rejoined the track in an unsafe manner, we know that this is a super important rule.
I can't really see an inconsistency in how the Stewards reacted in the past, they have been strict on that, rightfully so.

People now saying: "Vettel couldn't rejoin differently" "Hamilton shouldn't be there"
You are wrong, you can clearly see

1. Vettel didn't go over the grass as much left as he could, to exactly avoid such a situation
2. After his catch of the car, he intentionally opened the steering wheel to go wider, probably to cover off Hamilton
3. He went pretty early on the throttle (which is understandable to a degree, cause he wants to win)
4. The radio calls afterwards are pointing towards him trying to cover off Hamilton

I think the Stewards decision is correct, harsh for Vettel, but correct and necessary. Or are we allowing in the future dangerous rejoins and risk lives just for our entertainment? Do we allow that in all of Motorsport (also virtual one), good luck with that one, even more carnage.



This is misleading, because it is NOT about the track rejoin itself, it is about if it was safe or not.
The list should look like this:

• Verstappen, Suzuka 2018, rejoins the track, pushing Raikkonen out = Penalty
• Vettel, Canada 2019, rejoins the track unsafely and impeded Hamilton = Penalty

• Hamilton, Hockenheim 2018, Cuts the pit entry under Safety Car = No penalty was no unsafe rejoin, track was clear
• Hamilton, Mexico 2016, cuts the track on Lap 1 = No penalty was no unsafe rejoin, track was clear
• Hamilton, Monaco 2016, cuts the track, rejoins the track pushing Ricciardo wide = No penalty was a safe rejoin (check out the incident), there was also enough room for Ricciardo after the rejoin

We are not talking about Quali here, we are talking about impeding someone while rejoining the track (unsafe track rejoin). Get your facts together and stop twisting the truth for your agenda.

It was just made to emphasize the fact that Mercedes has been spared so many times, while others have received a penalty (In the last two years it’s almost ridiculous the amount of penalties they’ve avoided, I can make you a list of 10 episode 2017-now without even searching on internet for them.)