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Featured F1 Canadian Grand Prix: Vettel Penalty... Deserved or Unfair?

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by Paul Jeffrey, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. ears

    ears
    Listen, we're bona fide, we're not from London.

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    Although, with regard to the appeal, a quote from Binotto stands out as perhaps shooting himself in the foot.

    But surely if Vettel did what he did because 'he tried to keep his position' then it WAS a penalty?

    Maybe it's a translation thing, but Vettel said he did what he did because he was trying to avoid the wall, and that's why he should not have been penalised. If Binotto's saying, with regards to an appeal, he did what he did because he wanted to retain race position, then I don't think it's worth appealing.
     
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  2. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero

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    There are many drivers in F1 who has got penalty for unsafe return to the track and why should Seb not get penalty also especially when you can see from on-board video that he turns to the right with the purpose to block Hamilton It is good that stewards discovers dirty moves like this. I am not fan of Hamilton but look on-board video how he avoids accident by judging how dirty Vettel is based to experience from before and it is master piece of driving from Lewis.:thumbsup:

    Rules are rules and they are to everybody also to the race leader. ;)
     
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  3. Denis Betty

    Denis Betty
    Staff Premium

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    Ignore the rules to make the fans happy. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero

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    I agree with you 100% 5 sec. to Max is a joke and indeed FIA has many stupid rules like giving 5 sec.for unsafe release to Max which should be penalized with 10 sec stop and go.
    Now you are of course thinking that I am writing this just be-course it is Max but you are wrong. Any driver who looses his position be-course unsafe release (puncture Bottas) done by other driver should get possibility to get his position back, no mater who it is. ;)
     
  5. Flip-Flop Driver

    Flip-Flop Driver

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  6. delicousmuffin

    delicousmuffin

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    I do think the penalty was wrong to be given, however,

    Whether Vettel's move was intentional or not is controversial, Vettel did rejoin the track unsafely and if it wasn't for Hamilton reacting, it probably would have ended in a crash causing a red flag.
    I do still think the penalty was wrong to be given. The FIA just seemed to forget "What will happen if we give him a penalty?" or "What will happen if we don't give him a penalty?"

    For the first time, in what feels like ages, we had a fight on our hands between some of the best drivers on the grid, which has been spoiled by a ridiculous penalty.
     
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  7. ears

    ears
    Listen, we're bona fide, we're not from London.

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    Do you think this SHOULD be a factor for stewards when deciding whether or not to award a penalty?

    You think that the potential reaction of the drivers, the teams, the public should be a factor in deciding whether to penalise a driver for breaking rules?
     
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  8. dadara74

    dadara74

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    Insane; literally nothing happened, no contact whatsoever, no driver gained an advantage in any way (it's not that Lewis had passed him or was next to him). I even go as far to say that Lewis is the one who creates this situation by keeping his foot on the throttle instead of lifting and and anticipate on whats happening in front of him as he is the one who is in the position to anticipate, not Vettel (who is struggling for control and keep his car out of the wall). Do this in real life on the Autobahn or M4 and you will have a challenge explaining that to your insurance company. If it was Max or Magnusson instead of Lewis people would say they had been to aggressive and they should have lifted instead of putting their car in a dangerous position like Lewis did. People who are saying that Lewis is entitled to his racing line are just nuts imo; no-one is entitled to anything but a daily shite & piss...if a car goes out of control in front of you you should lift and not keep your foot down with your entitlement and rule book on your side. Lewis simply didnt capitalize on Vettels mistake as he was too far behind, no-one is hit, no-one gained an advantage so get on with the race instead of playing out politics on radio. What's next; penalties for defending your postition??? Oh, wait...FIA just yelled "hold my beer"...

    Regardless of one's opinion though is that this shows exactly what is wrong with F1, in fact this whole race showed was a perfect example of that. It's becoming much like football, people expect and rely on penalties, react like that (Lewis starts complaining immediately on radio feeling like a child who's lolly fell onto the ground), drive like that, and race like that. Drivers & teams feel entitled for something or play the victim card. FIA encourages this by playing the referee and dish out time penalties which, for the second time in a row, decides who's where on the podium. They are completely ruining F1 and it's becoming a laughing stock more and more.

    Compare this to the Indy500 (or the TT of Man) for example; that's racing on the limit because there is a constant threat of a real SERIOUS injury if ANYTHING happens ANYWHERE on the track AT ALL TIMES, the whole race. In Indy 500 or TT of Man actions have REAL consequences, drivers are relying on their instinct to survive as the slightest contact means going right into the wall with 350 kph, they dont have the time to discuss a possible penalty. Drivers drive the car constantly on the limit, constantly full throttle THE WHOLE RACE. F1 race pace is 5 seconds slower than possible which means cars are nowhere near their limit and easy to control, and if anything does go wrong there is always a gently nice big runoff area (even on the classic "dangerous" tracks like Spa were Eau Rouge has become a joke in itself); it's a walk in the park and it shows after the race when everybody is as fresh as a daisy in bloom on a nice sunny spring day.
     
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  9. ears

    ears
    Listen, we're bona fide, we're not from London.

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    You think that one guy makes a mistake, cuts a corner and rejoins illegally, so the other guy is to blame because he shouldn't be trying to capitalise?

    I can just imagine the changes to the rules.

    'When a driver sees a yellow flag, he must slow down to a stop and politely wait for the car that has left the track to rejoin and return to racing speed before proceeding".

    Perhaps the 2020 regulations will stipulate that all F1 cars must have indicators so that drivers can signal their intent to rejoin the track and their competitors can slow down, allow them in and follow politely behind at a safe distance.

    No point reading any further into your post than this, if you really think that's the case then your opinion is of no interest or value to me.
     
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  10. Andy_J

    Andy_J
    I hate VR. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Premium

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    Unsafe re-enter to the track. The grass was not wet, it did not make is tyres lose grip on re-entering the track. He dangerously closed the door because he knew Hamilton was trying to get past him at that moment and it was is only course of action. The rules are the rules. Well done race stewards. The nasty German got what he deserved. And another good win for Lewis who forced Vettel into making the mistake in the first place by applying great pressure which the German couldn't handle. :):thumbsup:
     
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  11. Ben Lee

    Ben Lee

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    I think the saddest part of this whole saga is that knowing how the F1 minds work, that patch of grass will be gone in 2020, "because X driver has moaned about it", further eroding the challenge of modern race tracks.
     
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  12. RaceSky

    RaceSky

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    For me it was a really good race because they was some battles everywhere! the penalty for seb comes from his mistake. The FIA wanted to explain that he needs to stop all of these mistakes!
     
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  13. Tom Blackett

    Tom Blackett
    Premium

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    Didn't think he should of had a penalty...... But the rules as they are then yes it was correct. Vettel cracks again....all his own doing...as for the teddy's being thrown everywhere after the race was pure gold... And very funny to watch... I think he should get another penalty just so we can all have a good laugh at him.... again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  14. neuer31

    neuer31

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    I am surprised about the results of the vote, cause in the end we are racers here, most of us had incidents because people rejoined the track in an unsafe manner, we know that this is a super important rule.
    I can't really see an inconsistency in how the Stewards reacted in the past, they have been strict on that, rightfully so.

    People now saying: "Vettel couldn't rejoin differently" "Hamilton shouldn't be there"
    You are wrong, you can clearly see
    1. Vettel didn't go over the grass as much left as he could, to exactly avoid such a situation
    2. After his catch of the car, he intentionally opened the steering wheel to go wider, probably to cover off Hamilton
    3. He went pretty early on the throttle (which is understandable to a degree, cause he wants to win)
    4. The radio calls afterwards are pointing towards him trying to cover off Hamilton
    I think the Stewards decision is correct, harsh for Vettel, but correct and necessary. Or are we allowing in the future dangerous rejoins and risk lives just for our entertainment? Do we allow that in all of Motorsport (also virtual one), good luck with that one, even more carnage.

    This is misleading, because it is NOT about the track rejoin itself, it is about if it was safe or not.
    The list should look like this:
    • Verstappen, Suzuka 2018, rejoins the track, pushing Raikkonen out = Penalty
    • Vettel, Canada 2019, rejoins the track unsafely and impeded Hamilton = Penalty
    • Hamilton, Hockenheim 2018, Cuts the pit entry under Safety Car = No penalty was no unsafe rejoin, track was clear
    • Hamilton, Mexico 2016, cuts the track on Lap 1 = No penalty was no unsafe rejoin, track was clear
    • Hamilton, Monaco 2016, cuts the track, rejoins the track pushing Ricciardo wide = No penalty was a safe rejoin (check out the incident), there was also enough room for Ricciardo after the rejoin
    We are not talking about Quali here, we are talking about impeding someone while rejoining the track (unsafe track rejoin). Get your facts together and stop twisting the truth for your agenda.
     
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  15. Marocco2

    Marocco2

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    IMHO, Hamilton tried to overtake Vettel off the track.
    1) Being in full control of the car chose voluntarily to get out of track.
    2) Consequently say that Vettel has led Lewis off the track does not assume any significance
     
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  16. nezeiges

    nezeiges

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    F1 is killing itself with all these rules

    Loose the rules and start racing again
     
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  17. Tormentor

    Tormentor

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    Vettel deserves a penalty, but not for this incident, but for acting like a five year old after the race. Such a childish behavior, switching the number plates and not giving interview.
     
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  18. SinAporia

    SinAporia

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    If you see someone goes of the track in that narrow place, would you go all out and try to pass him or would you be ready to break because you don't know if the car would spin after setting foot on the track again.

    Hamiltion created that unsafe return because he didn't slow down, he went for that gap and need to break. Ok, fine after that on the radio ready to complain..
    And sure he did say, he wanted to overtake him on track, but you can be sure his team won't let him, and would you drive all out like before if you knew you get handed that victory if you stay close enough?

    No to that penalty, its F1 - its dangerous, they are getting paid to race. At that point you can integrate Codemaster AI from F1 2016 to that cars, and you're done. Safe racing forever- no overtaking, no risk and the cost are low as well. And they get exactly what they want. If it would be any other driver than those 2, no penaltys would be given.
     
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  19. Big_Mama

    Big_Mama

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    Hamilton was the one who chose to take the risk to pass Vettel's uncontrolled car! By putting the foot to the throttle he risked his own car (and of course the car of Vettel)! Of course he should be allowed to take that action, but then he must also live with the consequences.

    Both drivers drove risky, so both should be treated the same. And since nothing happened, and both drivers are grown up individuals and should know the risks involved, there should of course not be a penalty for anyone.

    Tbh, I find a lot of these penalties disrespectful, but all the drivers seem to just play along. I don't like Vettel very much, but I though for a moment he would stand his case by boycotting the podium. Unfortunately he didn't have the guts...
     
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  20. dadara74

    dadara74

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    The point I am making is that if you presume that Vettel is not in full control of the car (which seemed to me) Lewis is going for a gap which doesnt exist. Lewis isnt blocked by Vettel, he's driving into the path of Vettel who is shooting back on track barely keeping control of the car (which is not deliberately rejoining a track in full control of the car). Lewis is taking the risk (he has full view on whats happening in front of him and in control over the car and thus in the position to anticipate) and it didnt pay off as he was too far behind. No contact, no harm done for both. It's not even a racing incident...let alone something worthy of deciding who finishes #1 (and probably wraps up the WDC & WCC).

    I do hope you know yourself what to do on a race track when you see a yellow flag

    Dismissing other people's opinions or points of view without reading their arguments or motivations? Good for you...you surely feel entitled enough to do so...
     
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