Why am i so slow?

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

I'm always 3-4 seconds slower than the best times in every circuit

My best time at Bathurst is 2m 09s 500ms
At Paul Ricard is 2m 08s 500ms
(with medium tyres)

I always reach maximum RPM and brake as late as posible, also my racing lines are exactly the same as pole laps onboard videos, does someone has any idea of what am i doing wrong?

 

[Dobermann92]

With those lap times you can't even fight for a position, you would be always in last place.

I'm consistent which means I usually end up in 6 to 10th position online because of the mistakes of other drivers. I cannot fight for positions indeed but I can defend mine.

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

I'm consistent which means I usually end up in 6 to 10th position online because of the mistakes of other drivers. I cannot fight for positions indeed but I can defend mine.

Being 10-12 seconds slower than the rest? That's a whole lap...if you end up 6 or 10th then you're faster than me, being 3-4 seconds slower than the rest i always end up between the last places even not spinning out.

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

In a nutshell, he's underdriving the car. That's why nothing work & the first page in the tread is complete nonsense.

Just simply look at faster laps & compare inputs steering vs brake inputs. @Bruno Iwanczuk is not overlapping both input & sync both input like a string, that's why he lose a lot of time.

Sure. Comparing my video with Chris Down's video, he reach the turn after the longest straight much faster than me, which do you think the reason is? Did you see something wrong with my inputs at the last corner before that straight? (sorry posible bad english)

 

[Dan Costa]

compare the speed at different reference points of that straight to see if the reason is Aerodynamics or better exit speed.

 

[Mr Deap]

Sure. Comparing my video with Chris Down's video, he reach the turn after the longest straight much faster than me, which do you think the reason is? Did you see something wrong with my inputs at the last corner before that straight? (sorry posible bad english)

Like I said, you are underdriving the car by trying to sync brake & steering. You have to overlap both steering & brake(hold the brake & push), after you release the brake pressure. Be a tad bit more late on the accelerator & floor it on exit. If you use the accelerator a bit too early the car 4 wheel drift(it curve) understeer & you lose acceleration speed.

"You release the brake as you turn in"
You release the brake pressure first, after you turn in

"You turn in as you release the brake"(AC method)
You turn in, after you release the brake pressure

It's not 5:5... It's 2 completely different method. It's like when you brake mid corner. One will require you to release steering while adding brake pressure. --->>One will require you brake & add steering.


If you don't use this method you can't make a good setup by feel. But yeah Mr. Down video definitely use a different setup based in how little is the steering input. WR are done at specific temp to get the most out of the tires.

 

[demetri]

Sure. Comparing my video with Chris Down's video, he reach the turn after the longest straight much faster than me, which do you think the reason is? Did you see something wrong with my inputs at the last corner before that straight? (sorry posible bad english)

I can see the difference. In the mountains, you lift off significantly more than Chris does and don't get back on full throttle as early as he does. After Skyline turn (1:28 in your video), you coast downhill while he's going WOT for almost a second. In some turns you have to lift off a bit on exit. Looks like you are driving a very understeery setup.

 

[Kek700]

managed a 2:06:235 but accidents are now common place , my race pace would be
low 2:08:00 , i could knock out a mid 2:06 if necessary. But the chances of an off are very
high. I am not sure how you or i could relate this to someone who needed another 5 seconds
of their Bathurst time.
i managed it by knit picking were i picked up the accelerator, trying to hold as much speed
as i could in the areas were i would normally take a cautious approach. And from my point
of view, rightly so. to gain 1.5 seconds against loosing 10 or 15 seconds is a no brainer.

 

[RobertR1]

I'm not sure how much benefit there is in trying to match inputs with another driving because you don't know their driving style, car setup and importantly, what they were feeling at that specific time to give that input. You're better off studying line differences, the specific approach to tricky corners/sections and then actually just driving the car.

Think of what you're doing while you're actually driving. You should be able to tell right away if you are setup well or are losing time in a given corner. If you can't do that real time self analysis, it'll be a steep learning curve. You can still do it but it'll come slower.

This guy on here is a great example: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/gt3-car-pack-mugello.137709/

Notice how fast he is in any of the GT3's. @PhilS13 I don't want to speak for you but thought of your old post as a good reference point for driving different cars to a similar pace.

 

[Kek700]

Sure. Comparing my video with Chris Down's video, he reach the turn after the longest straight much faster than me, which do you think the reason is? Did you see something wrong with my inputs at the last corner before that straight? (sorry posible bad english)

Criss manages 6 km/hr more than i do at the end of that straight, i run wing at 5 , dropping
it to 1 negates that advantage. you re running a rear wing of 8 thats why your top speed
at that point is 13km/hr slower than Criss.

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

I can see the difference. In the mountains, you lift off significantly more than Chris does and don't get back on full throttle as early as he does.

What is "the mountains"?

After Skyline turn (1:28 in your video), you coast downhill while he's going WOT for almost a second. In some turns you have to lift off a bit on exit.

Sorry bad english, what does "coast downhill" and "WOT" means?

Looks like you are driving a very understeery setup.

I'll adjust antiroll bars then.

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

Criss manages 6 km/hr more than i do at the end of that straight, i run wing at 5 , dropping
it to 1 negates that advantage. you re running a rear wing of 8 thats why your top speed
at that point is 13km/hr slower than Criss.

I'll reduce rear wing to 1 and see what happen.

 

[Kek700]

better still. we are of similar pace, this is my setup for 2min:6.3 seconds
try it

INTERNAL_GEAR_2]
VALUE=0
[INTERNAL_GEAR_3]
VALUE=3
[INTERNAL_GEAR_4]
VALUE=4
[INTERNAL_GEAR_5]
VALUE=3
[INTERNAL_GEAR_6]
VALUE=1
[INTERNAL_GEAR_7]
VALUE=5
[FINAL_RATIO]
VALUE=8
[TYRES]
VALUE=0
[PRESSURE_LF]
VALUE=19
[PRESSURE_RF]
VALUE=19
[PRESSURE_LR]
VALUE=18
[PRESSURE_RR]
VALUE=17

[FUEL]
VALUE=30
[TRACTION_CONTROL]
VALUE=2
[ABS]
VALUE=5
[WING_1]
VALUE=1
[WING_2]
VALUE=5

[CAMBER_LF]
VALUE=-35
[TOE_OUT_LF]
VALUE=6
[CAMBER_RF]
VALUE=-35
[TOE_OUT_RF]
VALUE=6
[CAMBER_LR]
VALUE=-27
[TOE_OUT_LR]
VALUE=2
[CAMBER_RR]
VALUE=-27
[TOE_OUT_RR]
VALUE=2

[DAMP_FAST_BUMP_LF]
VALUE=0
[DAMP_BUMP_LF]
VALUE=5
[DAMP_FAST_REBOUND_LF]
VALUE=7
[DAMP_REBOUND_LF]
VALUE=7
[DAMP_FAST_BUMP_RF]
VALUE=0
[DAMP_BUMP_RF]
VALUE=5
[DAMP_FAST_REBOUND_RF]
VALUE=7
[DAMP_REBOUND_RF]
VALUE=7
[DAMP_FAST_BUMP_LR]
VALUE=1
[DAMP_BUMP_LR]
VALUE=3
[DAMP_FAST_REBOUND_LR]
VALUE=9
[DAMP_REBOUND_LR]
VALUE=8
[DAMP_FAST_BUMP_RR]
VALUE=1
[DAMP_BUMP_RR]
VALUE=3
[DAMP_FAST_REBOUND_RR]
VALUE=9
[DAMP_REBOUND_RR]
VALUE=8

[DIFF_POWER]
VALUE=15
[DIFF_COAST]
VALUE=40

[BRAKE_POWER_MULT]
VALUE=100
[FRONT_BIAS]
VALUE=71
[ENGINE_LIMITER]
VALUE=100

[ARB_FRONT]
VALUE=8
[ARB_REAR]
VALUE=8
[SPRING_RATE_LF]
VALUE=110
[ROD_LENGTH_LF]
VALUE=10
[SPRING_RATE_RF]
VALUE=110
[ROD_LENGTH_RF]
VALUE=10
[SPRING_RATE_LR]
VALUE=125
[ROD_LENGTH_LR]
VALUE=22
[SPRING_RATE_RR]
VALUE=125
[ROD_LENGTH_RR]
VALUE=22

[PACKER_RANGE_LF]
VALUE=62
[PACKER_RANGE_RF]
VALUE=62
[PACKER_RANGE_LR]
VALUE=70
[PACKER_RANGE_RR]
VALUE=70

[CAR]
MODEL=ks_mclaren_650_gt3

 

[Dan Costa]

There's also time to be won by tuning the tyres to have the PSI = 26 in the parts of the track where they matter most (middle sector).
For my 2:04 in the scg I had to sacrifice tyre pressure in the first sector, to have them perfect in most of the middle sector. The last corner before the back-straight will get them pretty high and hot in the rears (27~28psi) but will cool down enough to have decent grip in the last 3 corners of the track.


So the sacrifice will be in the first 3 or 4 corners of the track with psi's in the 24~25 range.


As for the driving techniques you guys are discussing, I chose to think about a lap in terms of average lap speed instead of time. Although they end up being the same, when you think about corners in terms of average speed, you realize hitting apexes its not the most important rule. Its how much speed (kph or mph) you can carry through them without damaging the next section of the track (which is to say, its not the corner that matters, its the entire sector).

 

[demetri]

What is "the mountains"?


Sorry bad english, what does "coast downhill" and "WOT" means?


I'll adjust antiroll bars then.

The mountains is the middle sector of the track, it's where you climb and descend Mount Panorama.

Coast means going off throttle and not braking, not touching any of the two pedals. Downhill means descending, going down. I gave you the timepoint in your own video, it should be pretty self-explanatory. Coasting is bad (though sometimes it is unavoidable), and you want to minimize it as much as possible. A race car should either accelerate or decelerate, if it's doing neither you're losing time.

WOT - wide open throttle, pedal to metal is another way of saying the same thing

 

[demetri]

As for the driving techniques you guys are discussing, I chose to think about a lap in terms of average lap speed instead of time. Although they end up being the same, when you think about corners in terms of average speed, you realize hitting apexes its not the most important rule. Its how much speed (kph or mph) you can carry through them without damaging the next section of the track (which is to say, its not the corner that matters, its the entire sector).

If you missed your apex in most cases it means that you could've carried significantly more speed and/or had a higher speed on exit if you hit it, so I don't understand why you think they aren't that important.
Did you mean that missing an apex and have a higher exit speed is better than hitting one and having a lower speed (e.g. while driving at a grandma pace)? That's obviously true, but it also means that you're still taking this corner wrong and/or making some mistake during corner entry.

 

[Dan Costa]

Because each corner is followed by something different than the previous one. Going all the time from kerb to kerb, apex to apex in a track can be a huge time loss at the end. Think about it.

You can see it in world records and F1 pole onboards. In your mind you instantly think "oh he just lost time there" when he misses as apex. He didn't miss anything, he read the track instead.

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

The mountains is the middle sector of the track, it's where you climb and descend Mount Panorama.

Coast means going off throttle and not braking, not touching any of the two pedals. Downhill means descending, going down. I gave you the timepoint in your own video, it should be pretty self-explanatory. Coasting is bad (though sometimes it is unavoidable), and you want to minimize it as much as possible. A race car should either accelerate or decelerate, if it's doing neither you're losing time.

WOT - wide open throttle, pedal to metal is another way of saying the same thing

I knew what Downhill means.

Wide open throttle and pedal to metal still makes no sense for my bad english, but now that i know what coast means, i supose you meant he was full throttle for almost a second. Good point.

 

[demetri]

Because each corner is followed by something different than the previous one. Going all the time from kerb to kerb, apex to apex in a track can be a huge time loss at the end. Think about it.

You can see it in world records and F1 pole onboards. In your mind you instantly think "oh he just lost time there" when he misses as apex. He didn't miss anything, he read the track instead.

That works for some very specific sequences of corners which many tracks don't even have and that's why I wrote "in most cases". Watch Chris' lap, he's not missing a single apex there

 

[Kek700]

@Dan Costa
If your talking about the last 6 corners before the long down hill straight, then
i think i understand that. for me it is just a case of flowing rather than chasing
apex's. I might very well be wrong in doing that.

 

[demetri]

@Dan Costa
If your talking about the last 6 corners before the long down hill straight, then
i think i understand that. for me it is just a case of flowing rather than chasing
apex's. I might very well be wrong in doing that.

If you miss the apex in any of those you will have to lift off and lose time. The last one at the bottom is somewhat different (and I think Chris made a small mistake there with a bit earlier than optimal turn in), still you want to be as close to the inner wall as possible to be able to start your acceleration out of it earlier.