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Discussion in 'RaceRoom Racing Experience' started by Peter, Sep 10, 2014.
Roger that, missed that one.
Portimao still stutters in the same places it stuttered before if you use high track detail. If you drop it to medium, it runs smooth as silk. This problem still exists.
Same problem here!
I use Thrustmaster T300 GTE.
No sign of understeer through FF, only hint, or bounce when the tires slip.
I've already tried this, but it doesn't help. I've already deleted old profiles and created new, but it plays the same
Ok, it's the new road surface I want to test really but sad to hear the performance is still a issue.
Allrite I've been tweaking my settings over the last couple of days and I'm now at a point where it feels pretty good, but that being said I'm on a new wheel I've yet to get 100% used to so these are subject to change. But anyways, with these settings on my T300 RS I have no problems feeling both oversteer and understeer in the wheel.
A few things to keep in mind though:
All testing done on Oschersleben, other tracks MAY yield different results.
I've tested only cars in the ADAC GT Masters series (all but two of them, namely the Vette and the Camaro).
The different cars yield different results in FFB, as it should be! While the R8 is razorsharp and you'll feel both oversteer and understeer very clearly, the Nissan is on the other end of the spectrum and feeling these forces on this car is quite tricky imo. The Z4, Ford GT and SLS AMG all communicate loss of grip very well to me.
When the loss of grip is coming progressively, like for instance when slowly powering on just a tad bit too much out of a sweeping corner, it's quite hard to feel the loss of grip in the wheel, you might not feel it going lighter unless you start countersteering for other reasons. But when loosing grip more suddenly, for instance if you hit the kerbs while going on power, you will feel it much more sudden in the wheel.
I'm on a T300 RS, a T300 GTE and a TX with the GTE wheel will most likely be pretty much identical. The TX with stock rim might not feel the same though due to the very low weight of that rim. The heavier rim gives a bit of mechanical dampening.
Here's my profiler settings:
Take note of the "Auto-Center Settings", this made a huge change in feel for me!
Another thing worth knowing about this setting is that if you change the setting from "by the game" to "by the wheel" while running the game, you will feel the change, but if you go in the other direction you won't feel any change until the game has been restarted.
So over to my ingame settings:
A few words on the Vertical Load vs Lateral Force settings, first some quotes from Georg Ortner at S3:
So I was playing around with these two settings, I tried jumping between 200% Lateral Force (LF) + 100% Vertical Load (VL) and 175% LF + 125% VL. The difference is very noticeable, but I couldn't really say that one was better than the other, it was a case of I'd rather have them both present
So I ended up testing with the current setting of 190% LF and 110% VL, and to me it felt better than 200/100, but I reckon there's room for playing around more with both those settings as well as Steering Force to find a even better sweetspot, I just cba right now
I hope this can be of help to anyone.
Currently using vertical load at 175% on my TX, really can't see me ever going below that value. Near 100%, there's almost no road feedback, but as you approach 200%, the road feedback is fantastic.
OMG Mike you are right, I got the two settings mixed up! I read through this thread yesterday while tweaking and put my Vertical Load to 200%, found it great, then I moved my game to my SSD to shorten loading times and got a few issues with missing pictures in the menus, so I had to redownload the game, now that I went back and redid the settings I borked it up and set Lateral Forces to 200% instead! I went back and forth a few times just now and both give you a bit of the same information, but I much prefer having a high Vertical Load to Lateral Forces. I wound up with something like 115% LF and 185% VL which feels good atm, must update my post accordingly!
Great post @Kjell Eilertsen. What determines where you stop with your Vertical Load at 185% and your Lateral Forces at 115%? For me, I can't get enough VL but if I turn up LF it seems to diminish VL so I have it at 100%.
That's the problem i currently have with all the new FFB settings. I feel a difference, but i really can't evaluate which setting is more realistic and which not. I would prefer to have the FFB authentic and not like i think it feels good. But because i haven't driven a GT car yet, i can't really say how the FFB should feel like.
In my opinion FFB in driving sims need to do more than simulating forces of a real car´s steering wheel.
In a real car you get feedback not only from the wheel but from G-Forces, Pedals etc. that we simply miss when driving on a PC.
The PC Steering Wheel being the only haptic connection with the virtual car (unless you have a full motion simulator) should give you as much information about the car behaviour as possible.
My 2 cents
Just as you said adding Lateral Forces seems to diminish Vertical Load the more you add of it, if you go 200%/200% the FFB result ain't all that great hehe.
So I just went on to test like this;
100% VL + 200% LF for a lap or two
200% VL + 100% LF for a lap or two, repeat a few times
Doing this I concluded that I prefer high VL in terms of getting roadfeel and loss of grip, but that I want a bit of LF too because it seems to make the wheel firmer.
So I started with 100% LF and tested how little VL I could "live with", found that 175 was a bit too little but 185 was a good spot, then I added 115% LF and it felt overall very very nice.
Not saying this is the correct settings or even that this is the best for me, but it's the best I've had R3E feeling ever.
Just for fun I took these settings and a MP4-12C for a spin on Bathurst (both of which has not been updated other than the general FFB changes).
My what a difference the updated tracks and cars are, this combo felt almost as lifeless as the game did prior to the patch, took me less than a lap just to quit and go back to play updated content
Ok, good point, Georg. This is what i mostly forget in that case.
+1 Really happy to hear an S3 guy say this! With the current state of FFB I was getting worried S3 might think that's the limit of the forces we should be feeling through the weel.
Btw you're with S3 right? Your tag still says SimBin.
Absolutely agree which is why I've never understood someone's argument for why a wheel shouldn't provide feedback for things that you wouldn't get when driving a real car. The answer is quite obvious; you're not driving a real car and you don't have feedback from any other source except the wheel so you either take what you can get and the brain will interpret it or you get nothing and you feel completely disconnected from the game making it feel quite frankly, like a game.
As you stated, only a full motion simultator comes closer but even it is not a 1:1 perfect experience as driving a real car, there's no wheels, suspension, or G-force.
Yeah.. i should poke @Bram Hengeveld about that.
the default FFB for my DFGT is pretty lifeless, it's either strong or weak and no feeling for understeer. You really need to fiddle with those ini-settings (but which shouldn't be so in 2014 sims) to get a bit life to this wheel and feels atleast 4 me a lot better now with these settings below
FFB Gain="0.95" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis.
FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis.
FFB steer vibe freq mult="1.0" // Controls frequency of steering vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration.
FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.0" // Magnitude of steering vibration at 0mph (reference point).
FFB steer vibe slope="0.0" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude).
FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB steer force average weight="1.0" // How much weight is given to new steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Lower values will smooth out the steering force, but will also add latency.
FFB steer force exponent="1.0" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
FFB steer force input max="-11500.0" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
FFB steer force output max="1.2" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
FFB steer force grip weight="0.8" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force front grip exponent="8.0" // Range 0.0 to infinity, recommended: around 1.0. Exponent applied to grip weight.
FFB steer force rear grip exponent="2.0" // Range 0.0 to infinity, recommended: around 1.0. Exponent applied to rear grip loss weight.
FFB steer update thresh="0.0015" // Amount of change required to update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more frequently = lower frame rate.
FFB steer friction coefficient="0.2" // Coefficient to use for steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer friction saturation="0.2" // Saturation value to use for steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer damper coefficient="0.2" // Coefficient to use for steering damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer damper saturation="0.0" // Saturation value to use for steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer force balance mode="0" // Mode for how to add the steering forces together (lateral, load and diff). Acceptable values: 0 = lat + load + diff, 1 = sqrt(lat^2 + load^2 + diff^2), 2 = sqrt(lat^2 + load^2) + diff, 3 = sqrt(lat^2 + (load + diff)^2), 4 = sqrt((lat + load)^2 + diff^2)
FFB steer load multiplier="1.85" // Multiplier for vertical load on front tires. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer lateral multiplier="1.1" // Multiplier for lateral forces. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer rack factor="0.55" // How much of the lateral forces comes from steering rack. Range: 0 - 1.0
I found that in the Radical SR9 if you pick the car on the left, but especially the Van Der Steur car, the steering wheel loses its center at least at the Portimao track in Practice. I am using a G27, but when I use the right side car, no problem.
I can feel corners! Great work here. Works well on a G27. I guess the front grip exponent really did it.
But. There's always a but with a G27. This setup brings back the deadly center ffb deadzone. It just kills me.