Was Ocon to Blame for Verstappen Accident?

[azaralamouri]

Max always shows disrespect to other drivers and forces them off/track. He already saw Ocon in front of him and he had to wait for the blue flag and re overtake Ocon if he was faster, it is not yet considered blocking from Ocon's end cause it is just the first corner after his overtake.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[michelforest]

Probably. But it's funny because Max fanboys have such a short memory, that they forgot that it took until June or something for Max to have a weekend where he didn't hit someone or something. Just pointing out the irony.


For me, don't mess with the leader means, don't even bother trying to overtake. So yes, what you try to say is contradictory.
And in case you didn't know, when there's an overtake, the overtaken car loses time more often than not (only in super long straights with stupid DRS where the overtake is completed before braking, you don't lose time). When you let somebody by, there's a loss of time, but unlapping is still allowed.

The problem here is bonehead Max still can't pick his battles. Lose a very small battle (let Ocon finish his overtake) to win the war. After four years in F1, he still haven't figured out. And you know what ? Maybe after Abu Dhabi, certainly early next year, we'll have the same argument. The fanboys will say for the 100th time that the incident isn't his fault, and people like me will say that he'd be more powerful if he could drive with his head.

FYI, I'm not a fan of Verstappen. The only drivers I (sort of) support are Alonso and Leclerc.

And if "don't mess with the leaders" means "don't try to overtake" to you, well, too bad. That's not what I meant. I know you are allowed to unlap *if possible* and *if it's safe*. Just do it intelligently: wait for the friggin' straight which is right after the S of Senna. It's so obvious. So simple. Whether MV was smart or not is not the question. What Ocon did was dumb. Period. And his stupid smile after the race was even worse. He's lucky he only got shoved by MV. Senna had the balls to actually thrown a punch at Irvine (another jackass who got what he deserved.)

 

[muzikant]

FYI, I'm not a fan of Verstappen. The only drivers I (sort of) support are Alonso and Leclerc.

And if "don't mess with the leaders" means "don't try to overtake" to you, well, too bad. That's not what I meant. I know you are allowed to unlap *if possible* and *if it's safe*. Just do it intelligently: wait for the friggin' straight which is right after the S of Senna. It's so obvious. So simple. Whether MV was smart or not is not the question. What Ocon did was dumb. Period. And his stupid smile after the race was even worse. He's lucky he only got shoved by MV. Senna had the balls to actually thrown a punch at Irvine (another jackass who got what he deserved.)

Yeah we miss some people like James Hunt and Senna this sport is sometimes to
clinical with the correct answers in any way.
Max has a FIA punishment. Ohh yeah..The FIA must be happy with Max he gives this sport the reason why people turn on the television

 

[muzikant]

without him it is a boring mercedes show

 

[keto95]

Whether MV was smart or not is not the question.

It's the difference between a victory or becoming the 1st loser.

What Ocon did was dumb.

If you can provoke the leader to make an unnecessary error, then that's very smart.

He's lucky he only got shoved by MV.

There comes a time that Verstappen runs into the wrong guy.

 

[kilder]

I don't get it, a lot of professional or former f1 drivers already said that Ocon was wrong, Charlie Withing said that, what Ocon did was unaceptable, and people continue to blame Max. People nowadays think that know everything!

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

I don't get it, a lot of professional or former f1 drivers already said that Ocon was wrong, Charlie Withing said that, what Ocon did was unaceptable, and people continue to blame Max. People nowadays think that know everything!

I don't think anybody here said Ocon was totally without blame. In most incidents there is some blame that goes to both parties. Charlie Whiting also famously said track limits only apply to "shortening a corner". IMO he often seems to apply the rules selectively without any consistency, so I would take his words with a pinch of salt.

 

[Michel Forest]

It's the difference between a victory or becoming the 1st loser.

If you can provoke the leader to make an unnecessary error, then that's very smart.

Not when you’re in 16th position and a lap down. Then, you’re just a jackass.

 

[Fomohobika]

Verstappen seems to always be involved in some kind of on track collision. He's a young hothead who has been involved in a lot of on track situations since he came into Formula One. He's pretty fast, but he's also wild at wheel to wheel driving situations. He kinda reminds me of early Sergio Perez. He was quite wild at one point but he's a lot smarter today. Maybe it isn't age related though since Vettel is an experienced driver, and he also makes questionable choices during wheel to wheel racing situations.

I don't get it.
We mourn that we have babies racing and when there's a situation with hormons and a little bit of rage provided by a race leader - mourning again. Make up your minds!

 

[delpinsky]

Ocon could overtake the leader, if slower, to regain the position, but that was not the best place to do it, considering it was risky and he was trying to unlap himself from the race leader.
On the other hand, Verstappen could have taken less risks in that situation.
But the biggest fault goes to Ocon, in my opinion, so I vote Ocon.

 

[keto95]

Not when you’re in 16th position and a lap down. Then, you’re just a jackass.

No matter what you think, Ocon had the right to try it according the regulations.
Verstappen was dumb enough to let himself provoke into a situation where he shouldn't be in. End of story.

 

[Trezoitao38]

As a former amateur driver in SCCA, I can see that a few people here haven’t actually attended a pre-race drivers’ briefing.

It is absolutely unacceptable for a lapped car to be dueling with the race leader. Period.

This is so basic, so simple, so obvious that it absolutely amazes me that there is any dissent whatsoever. They make it very clear during every drivers meeting I’ve ever attended, usually with these words:

“There’s a reason you’re being lapped. It’s because he’s FASTER THAN YOU. Make way and carry on with your own race.”

It’s exactly like a GTE trying to “duel” with an LMP1 for “position” as they’re being lapped. It’s foolish. It’s meaningless. It’s dangerous.

Now: Remember all those times Ocon crashed out with Perez? This guy will never race in F1 again. Even Toto can’t save him now (though he should mail him a nice bonus check for “services rendered”, that’s for sure).

SCCA is not the entire motorsport. On Nascar and Indycar is common to see pilots really fighting to recover a lap. Of course and I agree with this point that a car slower cant fight against a faster one. It was not the case with Ocon at the moment of the collision, new tyres and DRS.

If FIA dont want to other drivers fight for unlap, why DRS is allowed on these situations? It is a very stupid rule because Ocon was not less than 1 second behind Verstappen, but a entire lap and less than 1 second behind. Why we see DRS on all these situations is a thing I dont understand.

 

[Haiden773]

But Max isn't ?

Oh, no. Max can be, too. But that's my point, part of overtaking is knowing the driver you're battling. Just like people take extra caution with Max, he should have taken a little more caution with a Force India, because it doesn't matter which one of them is behind the wheel. They're both a little off when it comes to race craft.

 

[TuElite]

Absolutely not and I want no association with anyone who might think Ocon responsible.

 

[michelforest]

If FIA dont want to other drivers fight for unlap, why DRS is allowed on these situations? It is a very stupid rule because Ocon was not less than 1 second behind Verstappen, but a entire lap and less than 1 second behind. Why we see DRS on all these situations is a thing I dont understand.

Yep, total mystery to me too. DRS is supposed to help overtaking for position, not to unlap a car. I can understand why it could be used to make it easier for the leaders to lap slower cars, however. That makes sense.

 

[michelforest]

SCCA is not the entire motorsport. On Nascar and Indycar is common to see pilots really fighting to recover a lap. Of course and I agree with this point that a car slower cant fight against a faster one. It was not the case with Ocon at the moment of the collision, new tyres and DRS.

Again, the key word here is "fight". If you are a lap down, you *can't* fight with the leader, no matter what, because you are not supposed to be a factor in the outcome of the race. It's basic racing etiquette. Ocon was 16th. Not 2nd: 16th. Ocon should have remembered his place. When you see the replay from his onboard camera, you clearly see Verstappen ahead. Ocon stupidly stays on the outside line ; instead, all he had to do was drop back a little, take the regular racing line behind MV and then overtake him on the straight. That's why it's Ocon's fault: he had a perfect opportunity to safely unlap himself. Instead, he fought MV for position when he had no business whatsoever to do so.

 

[smasha]

Both dickheads.

 

[muzikant]

Again, the key word here is "fight". If you are a lap down, you *can't* fight with the leader, no matter what, because you are not supposed to be a factor in the outcome of the race. It's basic racing etiquette. Ocon was 16th. Not 2nd: 16th. Ocon should have remembered his place. When you see the replay from his onboard camera, you clearly see Verstappen ahead. Ocon stupidly stays on the outside line ; instead, all he had to do was drop back a little, take the regular racing line behind MV and then overtake him on the straight. That's why it's Ocon's fault: he had a perfect opportunity to safely unlap himself. Instead, he fought MV for position when he had no business whatsoever to do so.

Because it is Max.. Max has always the blame! Agree it is ridiculous if you leading the race when it is Vettel or Ham a lot people cry here

 

[SuperDrummer]

That is not the fact today. Max is the leader in the race and Ocon received the blue flag

When exactly did Ocon see the blue flag? When he was driving behind Verstappen? Normally blue flags are shown if the leader catches you, not when you catch the leader.

 

[DingoStarr]

blue flag means get out of the way...not get out of the way and then in the way again (really really in the way).