@Bernhard Schreyek, a well composed argument. good luck with your mod!
URD eGT mod
- Thread starter Si
- Start date
yes cause they just maked music for profit and not cause they had just fun making music.....
Actually you are wrong. We toke the job for C7.R at first place becase we started on the model wich was planned to be free along C6.R and becase we thought that this could be a benefit to us and Kunos it was me who contacted Kunos if they would hire us on this work!
I didnt read whole thread here, just few here and there i come and read some posts. It amases me actually how people make there own opinions while nobody knows what is behind.
For those who dont know me from other games. Im not the best modder or 3d/2d guy but i did my best for over 10 years doing free mods. Time has come i had to grow up and i even left modding for some while taking jobs that had nothing to do in this direction.
When i came back i did again some cars FREE for gtr2 and than i got an offer for game developer wich i toke and than life showed its path.
When you love doing something and you get really really boring cars in first place to do as part of a JOB and bussines some here talk about, time has come when few were ditched by the company.
I had to make desicion, looking for a job at game developer, doing cars what we are beeing told to or doing what i love full time. And this was my decision.
I knew its going to be hard at start when we put first cars out for rF2 but we managed it.
Same case is happening now with AC but i see this community is just beeing build more around spoiled kids who rather rant and spare few bucks for sixpacks than support modders.
Ive heard of words going to donations directions and so on. Well that wont get the work finished, i have seen many cars/tracks beeing ditched over the past years becase of the work that is needed around to build this and in all my time i have been with teams from GSMF, CTDP and even in there best times they couldnt cover servers or what ever simple costs from donations. Life got them, teams broke apart and ripping has begone.
As mentioned above. MP is not beeing killed by payware content but by mods beeing stolen, overworked, cars/tracks beeing taken from all kinda games now allready and this pandorabox was opened years back and there is no way back anymore.
Sim/racing games have hit a point that we need to accept that first the quality, amount of work around that as FREE work is barelly doable, you can do a car in a year period but thats all...
This is my and our team members job and we will continue this way.
We are not forcing anybody on anything and who doesnt support our way we completly accept and respect this but you do respect this as our desicion to and that this is an option for you if you want it or dont its your desicion.
No hard fellings guys and im not going to go into discussion here, just wanted to say something and tell you my position on this.
Cheers
I didnt read whole thread here, just few here and there i come and read some posts. It amases me actually how people make there own opinions while nobody knows what is behind.
For those who dont know me from other games. Im not the best modder or 3d/2d guy but i did my best for over 10 years doing free mods. Time has come i had to grow up and i even left modding for some while taking jobs that had nothing to do in this direction.
When i came back i did again some cars FREE for gtr2 and than i got an offer for game developer wich i toke and than life showed its path.
When you love doing something and you get really really boring cars in first place to do as part of a JOB and bussines some here talk about, time has come when few were ditched by the company.
I had to make desicion, looking for a job at game developer, doing cars what we are beeing told to or doing what i love full time. And this was my decision.
I knew its going to be hard at start when we put first cars out for rF2 but we managed it.
Same case is happening now with AC but i see this community is just beeing build more around spoiled kids who rather rant and spare few bucks for sixpacks than support modders.
Ive heard of words going to donations directions and so on. Well that wont get the work finished, i have seen many cars/tracks beeing ditched over the past years becase of the work that is needed around to build this and in all my time i have been with teams from GSMF, CTDP and even in there best times they couldnt cover servers or what ever simple costs from donations. Life got them, teams broke apart and ripping has begone.
As mentioned above. MP is not beeing killed by payware content but by mods beeing stolen, overworked, cars/tracks beeing taken from all kinda games now allready and this pandorabox was opened years back and there is no way back anymore.
Sim/racing games have hit a point that we need to accept that first the quality, amount of work around that as FREE work is barelly doable, you can do a car in a year period but thats all...
This is my and our team members job and we will continue this way.
We are not forcing anybody on anything and who doesnt support our way we completly accept and respect this but you do respect this as our desicion to and that this is an option for you if you want it or dont its your desicion.
No hard fellings guys and im not going to go into discussion here, just wanted to say something and tell you my position on this.
Cheers
This is a free society, well most of the world, for people to use their talents as they see fit. There are no guarantees that their hard work will sell but if they can produce a product that people like more power to them.
I may not purchase this content but I'm glad I have choices and options in this world.
If you don't want to pay for content, don't! URD doesn't have to "give" me anything, I don't deserve anything I didn't have a part in creating.
We are adults aren't we...well most of us I assume.
As far as ruining MP, if anything those hosting the races should support the community by restricting the content.
I may not purchase this content but I'm glad I have choices and options in this world.
If you don't want to pay for content, don't! URD doesn't have to "give" me anything, I don't deserve anything I didn't have a part in creating.
We are adults aren't we...well most of us I assume.
As far as ruining MP, if anything those hosting the races should support the community by restricting the content.
zAmboni
Moving bollard
Since I haven't mastered the cars already in AC, I will probably pass on it for now. But I have no problem paying for quality 3rd party content. Before I heard about AC from word of mouth, I hadn't played any racing sims for a long time. But because of word of mouth, and looking at the commitment from the AC devs, I felt that they were going to produce a high quality product and jumped at it.
Previously, I have never been a fan of developer or 3rd party DLC for sims/games. If I was not confident that the developer or 3rd party would produce...AND SUPPORT...their games and DLC, I would pass. But it seems that AC seems committed and URD seems to have a good track record with their mods, so I don't see a problem.
URD or any 3rd party outfit selling DLC will sink or swim depending on the quality and usefulness of their work. If the mods aren't any good I am pretty sure that ppl here and elsewhere on forums will let it be known and they won't get any sales and won't be use for leagues and on servers. I think that warnings about fragmentation of the sim over paid DLC and mods is a bit overblown. High quality stuff will survive because they are high quality and may actually help spur more sales of AC. Some people may get fooled by buying cr*p mods, but the community will soon find out about them and be shunned.
The community will figure out the good from the bad and what 3rd party stuff is worth buying. The MP servers will be the same way. If a lot of servers are using the same stuff, then maybe it is worth looking at for purchase. I'm sure there will also be a bunch of "pure" servers out there for use. You may have to join a different AC community for it though.
Previously, I have never been a fan of developer or 3rd party DLC for sims/games. If I was not confident that the developer or 3rd party would produce...AND SUPPORT...their games and DLC, I would pass. But it seems that AC seems committed and URD seems to have a good track record with their mods, so I don't see a problem.
URD or any 3rd party outfit selling DLC will sink or swim depending on the quality and usefulness of their work. If the mods aren't any good I am pretty sure that ppl here and elsewhere on forums will let it be known and they won't get any sales and won't be use for leagues and on servers. I think that warnings about fragmentation of the sim over paid DLC and mods is a bit overblown. High quality stuff will survive because they are high quality and may actually help spur more sales of AC. Some people may get fooled by buying cr*p mods, but the community will soon find out about them and be shunned.
The community will figure out the good from the bad and what 3rd party stuff is worth buying. The MP servers will be the same way. If a lot of servers are using the same stuff, then maybe it is worth looking at for purchase. I'm sure there will also be a bunch of "pure" servers out there for use. You may have to join a different AC community for it though.
Well, things like Steam Workshop are supposed to fix the "server using content you can't find how to download" issue but definitely agree, there's no way to keep your AC content prepped for joining every MP server and the payware is a drop in the bucket compared to all the fast rips...
I'm probably not going to buy much 3rd party payware on my own initiative, unless it was total-conversion level packages like GSC is to rf1 -- I want the whole experience, not just driving random cars -- but if I joined a league that was using non-free cars, it's a tiny price to pay for the kind of gaming most leagues offer. And if the eGT mod fleshes out (cars finalized, include some career stuff, whatever) I'd be more tempted.
Lol, this makes no sense... and how many bands sell a lot to do crap albums that you regret buying? Question is, if people get used to paymods and paytracks, one of those days you're buying s*** content that you won't be using. Also, to enter a championship you'll have to buy cars and tracks and that will be far expensive than iRac$ng. What do you think that will happen? 5/8 guys for each championship, paying 50 euros for entire championship content? Is this so hard to understand? Come on...
Metla
Premium
It makes perfect sense, Its the way of the (grown up) world, If you don't get paid for what you do then you generally have to put your efforts into something that does generate some coin. Rent has to be paid, the wife appreciates a pair of shoes now and then, and if you don't feed your children the government gets involved.
Plenty of other gaming communities have thrived with free and paid content, Its all good, the balance will come naturally.
Plenty of other gaming communities have thrived with free and paid content, Its all good, the balance will come naturally.
Thx for the statement alless. Too bad you just make your comment and showing with your last word your unwilling to discuss.
But just take a look at the Bierbuden which are the biggest german simcommunity and then tell again, that payware (DLC/Mods) are NOT killing the MP. Just compare the amount of players GTR2/rF with Race07.
Also, saying critcs are just from dumb, beerdrinking kids is something i dont understand. I mean i understand the sentence behind and that its easier for you to point the fingers on a group of people which most likely dont do onlineracing cause they more likely drinking beer and watching football.
But thx again, your strongend my thoughts and we will see how far your taken way will bring you.
But just take a look at the Bierbuden which are the biggest german simcommunity and then tell again, that payware (DLC/Mods) are NOT killing the MP. Just compare the amount of players GTR2/rF with Race07.
Also, saying critcs are just from dumb, beerdrinking kids is something i dont understand. I mean i understand the sentence behind and that its easier for you to point the fingers on a group of people which most likely dont do onlineracing cause they more likely drinking beer and watching football.
But thx again, your strongend my thoughts and we will see how far your taken way will bring you.
In my opinion what will happen is:
- split community in hundreds/thousands of parts;
- low quality paid mods;
- low interest from people to get started on simracing;
- low profit for each modder, not sure if it will be enough to buy a pair of expensive shoes;
- less development or interest from hardware/software companies to create something for others make money;
- People will be charging you for content they do not own;
- Companies will start to copyright models and brands which no modders or anyone will be able to use, distribute, etçª;
- Good drivers will want to be paid too (to support mod costs, etçª, it's fair enough);
- Probably you'll start paying a lot to race in certain communities or championships;
- Games like Forza, Codemasters F1, GT will start to sell a lot, because people buy a whole pack of cars and tracks LICENCED and won't be bothered to buy every single car/track by ridiculous prices to make a championship for example;
- Etçª...
Also, if anytime this happens i'll sell my wheel the next day and find another hobby to do, maybe golf, or real racing, it may be cheaper
- split community in hundreds/thousands of parts;
- low quality paid mods;
- low interest from people to get started on simracing;
- low profit for each modder, not sure if it will be enough to buy a pair of expensive shoes;
- less development or interest from hardware/software companies to create something for others make money;
- People will be charging you for content they do not own;
- Companies will start to copyright models and brands which no modders or anyone will be able to use, distribute, etçª;
- Good drivers will want to be paid too (to support mod costs, etçª, it's fair enough);
- Probably you'll start paying a lot to race in certain communities or championships;
- Games like Forza, Codemasters F1, GT will start to sell a lot, because people buy a whole pack of cars and tracks LICENCED and won't be bothered to buy every single car/track by ridiculous prices to make a championship for example;
- Etçª...
Also, if anytime this happens i'll sell my wheel the next day and find another hobby to do, maybe golf, or real racing, it may be cheaper
Bernhard your completly off about MP. MP was killed in rf period with all the mods around as everybody started to modify, rip stuff from modders, other games and so on. Leagues started to modify each mod they used.
Ive lost full motivation on MP and many others just becase of that! When you installed something in rf or gtr2, joined a server you allways got something and mismatches and you were removed. than you had to go, search for each modification, track update number or a car you were missing.
What is a different now if some league or server is using payware mod as its basicly the same as it was in past with modified files you couldnt acces becase they were only for registered site ussers or league members? Or locked servers like before? Not a single differente actually. You are just trying to rant here over something that will not effect you just like league mods in past.
Most of leagues that came to us and are using EGT now were used there own mods in past that you couldnt acces except if you joined them and im sure you werent with all of them and new leagues are still beeing open up.
Public servers open and there are many of those are using all kinda mods you will never go and download or have even acces to them.
Leagues and public servers using ripped content from all kinda mods in rf/gtr2... that were modified by all kinda ussers for there own needs from physics, adding or removing cars you have or will never download and your complaining about MP over payware?
This is an option, another option just added, not something taken away and added as payware. If we wouldnt do this way, you would have an option to drive these cars eather. You can still wait an hope some modding team will do them but question will it be finished and if yes, when?
Again, its plus option, nothing else! And we still work on free mods to wich are done in very short time as we cover the time and expensive from our payware stuff!
Ive lost full motivation on MP and many others just becase of that! When you installed something in rf or gtr2, joined a server you allways got something and mismatches and you were removed. than you had to go, search for each modification, track update number or a car you were missing.
What is a different now if some league or server is using payware mod as its basicly the same as it was in past with modified files you couldnt acces becase they were only for registered site ussers or league members? Or locked servers like before? Not a single differente actually. You are just trying to rant here over something that will not effect you just like league mods in past.
Most of leagues that came to us and are using EGT now were used there own mods in past that you couldnt acces except if you joined them and im sure you werent with all of them and new leagues are still beeing open up.
Public servers open and there are many of those are using all kinda mods you will never go and download or have even acces to them.
Leagues and public servers using ripped content from all kinda mods in rf/gtr2... that were modified by all kinda ussers for there own needs from physics, adding or removing cars you have or will never download and your complaining about MP over payware?
This is an option, another option just added, not something taken away and added as payware. If we wouldnt do this way, you would have an option to drive these cars eather. You can still wait an hope some modding team will do them but question will it be finished and if yes, when?
Again, its plus option, nothing else! And we still work on free mods to wich are done in very short time as we cover the time and expensive from our payware stuff!
Rui Santos manufacturers or game developers are shuting down mods since f1c times allready. Simbin when they started working on there first GTR game asked one modding team to change the names, liverys and so on. Porsche wrote Enduracers for not releasing there car. GMT porsche gt1 98 model was taken down from few sites for DMCA claim(even i hosted the link on mediafire and was removed). FIA sending mails around now to. What do you think this is something new? And how many more we dont even know that didnt went public with this? This was allways around and allways will be. Nothing new and payware is not going to change this. The world is turning around in this way and free or payware cars/tracks cant do anything about it. If some company thinks that it needs to be done, they will do it, no mather who/what or how its shared!
Frederic Schornstein
TXL Racing
I have to disagree with you. In rF2 the only pay mods are the once from URD 2 Mods in total and they didn't do any harm to the community at all. There was no split, we have no low quality paid mods and URD always offers one of the cars to try out. Some leauges were just running based on the free Corvette and that was fine. I did test the AC Corvette and the physics are a mess at the moment, therefore I won't buy it.In my opinion what will happen is:
- split community in hundreds/thousands of parts;
- low quality paid mods;
- low interest from people to get started on simracing;
- low profit for each modder, not sure if it will be enough to buy a pair of expensive shoes;
- less development or interest from hardware/software companies to create something for others make money;
- People will be charging you for content they do not own;
- Companies will start to copyright models and brands which no modders or anyone will be able to use, distribute, etçª;
- Good drivers will want to be paid too (to support mod costs, etçª, it's fair enough);
- Probably you'll start paying a lot to race in certain communities or championships;
- Games like Forza, Codemasters F1, GT will start to sell a lot, because people buy a whole pack of cars and tracks LICENCED and won't be bothered to buy every single car/track by ridiculous prices to make a championship for example;
- Etçª...
Also, if anytime this happens i'll sell my wheel the next day and find another hobby to do, maybe golf, or real racing, it may be cheaper
I think, if you are doing a low quality pay mod you will fail immediately. Why would anyone build a leauge based on crap cars when there is good stock content in most Sims today?!
I am a good driver and run two leauges using a pay mod (I do drive the free cars in that leauge) and I dont expect to be paid why would I expect that?!?!
Even if I had only one car and one track in AC or rF2 I would still take it instead of some arcade game.
Last but not least as a pay mod you do need the support from the community. There is no such thing as a DRM system, so when your mod is crap people will leak it and you won't see a penny.
That's precisely what i'm talking about, if Porsche, FIA, etçª are trying to stop modders from doing illegal mods, less sense it make to me to charge for something you do not own...
@Frederic Schornstein I'm talking in the long term, crap mods will be sold without you even try them, aswell as other issues i've written in that post...
What i mean with "be paid to race" is that if money starts to be involved, me as a good driver want to be paid too if racing for a team for example, or by winning a championship, afterall, like modders i spend money on hardware, software and personal time on it, that's fair too don't you think?
It's a question of principles, if you do something for hobby, the love to simracing or computers i understand, if you're trying to win money from it don't count on me because i won't spend a penny on it. I rather prefer instead to make a donation of 10€ for example for those who make great mods for free...
What i mean with "be paid to race" is that if money starts to be involved, me as a good driver want to be paid too if racing for a team for example, or by winning a championship, afterall, like modders i spend money on hardware, software and personal time on it, that's fair too don't you think?
It's a question of principles, if you do something for hobby, the love to simracing or computers i understand, if you're trying to win money from it don't count on me because i won't spend a penny on it. I rather prefer instead to make a donation of 10€ for example for those who make great mods for free...
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Allright, the constructive criticism and respect is over and stupidity will start... i'm out!
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