Twin Sims... The Build

[DrewRPh]

But I strongly advise to give it a pause now, go at it when you have the rigs dialled in

I don't disagree. I just have 4 weeks to kill while all this stuff comes in before my planned build date of 4/26. So I want to take advantage of the down time and current crappy weather before the sun comes out for the summer and my priorities change... to REAL Wind Therapy!

 

[stigs2cousin]

I can see the attraction,

still waiting for my (company) F900GS

While doing research for tactile

(PUT ALL THE PARTS IN A BOX AND NAIL IT SHUT until your rigs are working satisfactory!!)

you could try the BDS exciters which I haven´t tried myself with mounts for the HSVs
(3d printing/Thingyverse is the Gen Z way, I build my mounts from angle aluminium)
and two BST-1 or Aurasound on the seat.
3m Dual Lock seems to be working for sticking these things to bucket seats so no need to drill into expensive hardware.
If you have an old AV Receiver with discrete 5.1 channel input you can use that, if not there´s ton of material on modern amps:
@Mr Latte

For a lot of people a simple Simhub profile is

I even could provide you with a base profile for use as ASS FB and Feet FB

 

[DrewRPh]

Good news, Bad news.

Good: The steering wheels that were on back order with no estimated delivery date have shipped!

Bad: The second Corbeau seat is on back order. Corbeau apparently has no inventory info on their website and there only solution is to "contact you within 24 hours" if they don't have a product that you order...

I had already ordered, received and opened the first before ordering this second one (in wide). I absolutely want them to match so can't just switch to a different brand. The did offer to let me return the original to order a pair offered by Summit racing (they have pairs but not singles in stock...) but repackaging would be a bear and they would both be same size.... Estimated manufacturing delivery date to Corbeau is end of April. with my 4/26 start of build date, it could be close... May have one rig with a make-shift folding chair for a bit...

 

[stigs2cousin]

Well,

that sucks on the emotional level, but it offers a technical advantage (grasping at straws here )

You can concentrate on building and setting up one rig with less limited floor space
It´s always easier the second time around so the more cramped surroundings won´t have that big an impact.

 

[Mr Latte]

I can see the attraction,

still waiting for my (company) F900GS

While doing research for tactile

(PUT ALL THE PARTS IN A BOX AND NAIL IT SHUT until your rigs are working satisfactory!!)

you could try the BDS exciters which I haven´t tried myself with mounts for the HSVs
(3d printing/Thingyverse is the Gen Z way, I build my mounts from angle aluminium)
and two BST-1 or Aurasound on the seat.
3m Dual Lock seems to be working for sticking these things to bucket seats so no need to drill into expensive hardware.
If you have an old AV Receiver with discrete 5.1 channel input you can use that, if not there´s ton of material on modern amps:
@Mr Latte

For a lot of people a simple Simhub profile is

View attachment 741795

I even could provide you with a base profile for use as ASS FB and Feet FB

 

[stigs2cousin]

Ok,
Could have been clearer:

I was pointing to your research on BDS and Amps

 

[simracingfanatic]

I don't disagree. I just have 4 weeks to kill while all this stuff comes in before my planned build date of 4/26. So I want to take advantage of the down time and current crappy weather before the sun comes out for the summer and my priorities change... to REAL Wind Therapy!

View attachment 741793

Speaking of wind, have you considered building a wind simulator? I think a wind simulator is very helpful for getting a sense of speed in the virtual world.

 

[DrewRPh]

Speaking of wind, have you considered building a wind simulator?

Considered? Briefly. Looked at ASR solution, but just for a moment. Doubt it is something I would seriously consider (never say never)...

 

[DrewRPh]

Anyone every see the National Geographic channel show, "Border security. America's Front Line"?

They don't mess around with slicing and dicing packages. Got one of my wheel button boxes today that was sliced into so deep it went not only through the outer carboard but into and through the inner box as well. Thankfully the sticker page dodged the blade.

Don't be shipping drugs in game control packages!!! Geesh!

DHL delivery... package in route and scheduled to be her between 2:30 and 4:30, then only 7 delivery points away, then failed delivery attempt (which was wrong) then failed due to traffic? Unlikely... Then delivered after 8PM. At least one of them made it. I think the other may be here today (baring any contraband enclosed... LOL).

 

[DrewRPh]

Not sure what I was expecting, but these SRB button boxes are no joke. They got some weight to them. Looking forward to getting them on their respective wheels when they get here.

 

[stigs2cousin]

And then consider that German "Worker Protection Regulation" mandates a "safety knive" for parcel opening-

The "Controlleti " would probably blow a fuse when he sees my one hand folder with cerrated edge.

 

[DrewRPh]

Sooooo...

Spent a few hours yesterday and another yet this morning scratching the surface of tactile...

One thing is clear.

So follow the white rabbit on your own risk, things tend to escalate quickly from here!

Ya. Think I need to put a pin in this for a bit and get back to the basics of what I NEED to get these things up and running.

Stil believe tactile is an absolute requirement once I get things rolling. I have not exactly cut corners with the budget on these rigs so no way I could "complete" these rolleyes without some tactile in the future.

Sound.

Gotta have sound solution of some sort. For the absolute basics, could just the center Monitor but that wouldn't be much of a solution.

Have these "classics" sitting around.

Sony 5.1 STR-D665 (60w F & C 30w surround)
Sony 5.1 STR-DE635 (80w each)

Not sure where I would put these behemoths but it is one option.

I also have two different Bose sub woofers and 5 cubes from back in the day (when they were cool). (Ya, they were never cool. ) LOL

Believe it or not, I trashed 5 more cube speakers just because they hadn't been used in probably close to 15 years. How can you hang onto something that long... only to throw it away about a year before you find a use for it????

As I have been discussing with my daughter recently, we have come to the realization that we will be using these rigs to play other games on them as well so my plan is just to use the internal sound card for sound (that will work for everything) and add the external card and amp to run tactile in the future.

The size, weight, and power of these receivers seems a bit overkill (go figure) for a sound solution, but it will get the ball rolling.

I haven't really been paying attention to if those putting these rigs together are using surround speakers. A quick search shows that most titles are now supporting 5.1. My speakers can't be too crazy as I each rig will no doubt be interfering with the sound of the other.

Seems like a left, right and Center mounted to the monitor stands would be more than sufficient.

Still kicking myself for ditching those other cubes... LOL

 

[stigs2cousin]

Quick research shows that the 635 has "multi channel input" which can be used with 3,5mm to cinch cables into the onboard sound, but I have no idea how to "get in" the 665. I couldn´t find multi in nor HDMI/VGA??

(Edith:
for starters you could use the existing hardware for two stereo setups, I´m not sure sims do much with the center channel. After that craigslist is your friend, that´s how I completed my Sim and Home Cinema setups. Though I still think for simultanious use headphones would be the way to go))

About the rabbit hole:

"Sir, you have been warned!!"

 

[DrewRPh]

For my own reference.

Get a solid rig. Then begin the tactile journey. Don't expect an all immursive rig from the start but use items you can continue to grow with rather than replace.

Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Dumb question. What size female spade connector do I need to connect to a Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Puck?

www.overtake.gg

 

[DrewRPh]

reference Tactile rabbit hole... LOL Whew!!! That was a read... Mr Latte

Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

I do not completely concurre. My (very basic) setup gives additional driving cues like wheel slip in the rear and brake slip on the brake pedal. Also the engine rpm's in the backrest add information when to shift additionally to revcounter and engine sound. Also the buttfeeling of hitting...

www.overtake.gg

Can't wait till my hardware gets here. Been reading Tactile... for HOURS....

 

[stigs2cousin]

Can you still see the light?

(From the bottom of your hole??)

Please give yourself a moratorium, do the Rig/Monitor/FFB thing first
And do it well, then:

GO NUTS

 

[Mr Latte]

If you must get a taster experience for tactile.....

The advice I can give you and if you want to experience what perhaps is currently the best performance/money spent at this current time in 2024.

Start with 2 of these


This unit uses two different size crimp connectors.
Example Here & Here
2.8mm & 4.8mm
Wire them with 14 AWG speaker cable.


Soundcard
This is the best budget soundcard I tested for Simhub.



Amplification:
This amp will support only 2 units, but is affordable, has a digital display for volume and used by many people for budget tactile.



This amp is newer and can support upto 6x channels


I have two of these M5.1 here with intention to test them out myself, with a fully decked rig installation using upto 12 of these BDS units as part of the expandable concept I want to bring.

My preference is to use and test for myself exactly what I am recommending to others. Also then any effects that are made by myself with certain feeling sensations these units offer.

How the effects feel on my own setup when building them, will carry over much better/efficiently to what someone else feels on their rig. This is why in my view, it is important to maintain the same components and apply similar installations. Others do not perhaps do this and make effects for people that have various different units, various soundcards, various amps. Created effects, will not necessarily be best realised, or feel the same as originally intended when you apply so many variations.

These amps should perform well enough though. I would recommend to purchase the additional 2nd power supply if/when you decide to add more than 2 units.

Note:
Currently I am in the process of a new build as well, but we may be moving home in the near future, so I am going at a slow pace not wanting to build something only to have to take it down in a short period.

Installation:
Do not worry about isolation just yet....

Place the two units on the back of your seat or on the L/R pedals.
Use whoever/whatever effects you want but I have my own that will be shared which I have been making with a different approach I use. These are being made/tested specifically for the BDS unit.

*Some old AV receivers may not send lower bass frequencies to surround or centre channels. They were never intended with older Dolby based surround multichannel audio for full range, apart from the main L/R channels. Applying power to multiple 4ohm output is also not something most AV units were designed to do. Overheating or blowing an internal fuse is possible if using such and depending what tactile is being driven by it. In some cases, yes certain models had better amplification and power supplies than others.


What you do is your own choice...
Thanks for the interesting thread and hope things continue to go well.

 

[DrewRPh]

Can you still see the light?

(From the bottom of your hole??)

Not even with night vision...

 

[DrewRPh]

If you must get a taster experience for tactile.....

Thanks for your comments and time. I have been reading pages of threads, many of which you are responsible for.

I skimmed the first 150ish pages of, "Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software", and now am around page 287. Still a way to go.

Also reading your, "New Tactile Hardware 2023 / 2024" but only on the second page of this as I want to go through the older stuff first before this more recent thread.

Very good reads. I appreciate how you appear to, " Want to boldly go where no man (noone...) has gone before. You want to see what is possible in this very specific field and are willing to make the investment in both time and resources to those ends.

In these, I did find your comments and others on the Nobsound equipment. Even if I could get the old receivers to distribute signals... why would I? The compact, newer options that includes built in sound cards are not expensive at all and take up about 10% of the space, can be mounted nearly anywhere, and weigh only a fraction of what those receivers do. I may use the receivers for sound initially if I don't have a better solution in place by then but don't expect them to last long even in that manner.

How the effects feel on my own setup when building them, will carry over much better/efficiently to what someone else feels on their rig. This is why in my view, it is important to maintain the same components and apply similar installations.

I admire your ability to continue to strive for basic recommendations and mid-priced alternatives despite the "Interweb" frequently not wanting to hear the truth that in many cases you get what you pay for and that your test or rigs will no doubt exceed the budget and installation of those reading your feedback.

How could anyone ever come up with a standard "profile" unless the rig and equipment were identical? Don't think you can. Could there be some basic direction that says "Set parameter A at X (when you feel just the right amount of feedback for parameter A , then adjust parameter B in your specific rig slowly up until you just hit the sweet spot for Parameter A and B. I don't know... I am WAAAAAY too new and all I have is parts at this point... LOL!!!

That said, I was thinking today that I might just be a good test case for tactile.

hmmmm

I am a total NOOB. I haven't used any sim equipment in 20 years and that was a wheel that clipped on to a desk, a cheap set of pedals, and a flight joystick. Played Nascar Heat, Driver and some Flight simulator 1998.

So, obviously from the thread above, I am spending more on initial rig hardware than your average starter. Should have a rock-solid frame, higher end controls, triples etc. They will be in a dedicated space with a concrete floor (below some laminate flooring).

Special note here... Two of them.... Two identical rigs sitting side by side with identical hardware. In most cases, if you want to try something out, you need to possibly tear down and reinstall and then when testing, hope you can remember how something felt? If I make a change, I can simply stand up, slide to the other rig and run the same course, corner, or test on the original set up.... AND then back...

Sound like a pretty good test environment... Hmmmmmm

Making me wonder if I should swap out the one seat to have two identical sized (Wide) seats to eliminate another variable... hmmm

So many variables in Tactile:

What hardware
What locations
isolation
How is the hardware tuned in
What specific effect are you looking with a particular solution.
Imersion vs valuable feedback.
Budget
Future growth potential

This is the internet, so there will be no consensus...LOL but what EFFECTS should those just entering the rabbit hole of tactile be looking at first to wet their whistle. EFFECTs, not hardware.

I understand the discussion of "personal preference" can and will slip into the answers but try to take that out of the equation. What makes effects make the biggest impact on your racing sim from the start and make the biggest impact on emersion AND feedback for those starting out?

If you brought someone else without any sim experience, what 1, 2 or 3 effects would be the first you would point out to those individuals or would they point out to you after a few laps. "You can really feel the ____"

Tire slip? RPM? Anti, lock? Gear shift? Bumps? Other?

I also understand that if you try to do too many, overlap will occur and mess with the effects and so forth...

I am also convinced that positions on the seat and Pedal decks are the way to start (not the 4-corner thing) and that isolation is beyond the initial set up.

Place the two units on the back of your seat or on the L/R pedals.

This is the part you lose me on because of my ignorance on the subject. What effects will I get in the pedal vs on the seat. I believe I have seen rigs set up with one larger unit on the seat and one larger on the pedals for front vs back wheels but again... my ignorance here. I will keep reading...

On a side note...
I am thinking one easy, inexpensive, and very specific option is the Simagic Haptic Pedal Reactor on the brake dedicated solely to anti-lock. Obviously, you can do on other pedals as well but as a starting point, it is very specific and only takes one channel. Add that to a Pedal base and seat solution solution of course.

Anyway. I remember a post somewhere that gave their opinion on "must have" feedback but not sure where it is right now. Said something like, "If your are only going to do 3 things, do A, B, and C. If you are going to do 5 things, do A, B, C, D, and E. " and so forth.

One step further would be, "A is for parameter A that you would feed to the x hardware attached to the lower back of your seat."

Options for x hardware would be component 1, 2 or 3 with their respective pros and cons (including price and potential for reuse if you continue to upgrade.

Start with 2 of these

Thanks again for the specific hardware recommendations.

Installation:
Do not worry about isolation just yet....

Agreed. Thanks.

Now when are they shipping my RIGs???????????

 

[DrewRPh]

Update....