Twin Sims... The Build

[DrewRPh]

Greetings all. I have had an idea for some time now and it is finally time to bring it to life.

The Goal: Build two Identical racing sims to be positioned side by side in my game room for my family and friends (and of course myself) to enjoy while socializing. I want the rigs to be identical in every way with one exception… That one may be converted easily between the racing sim and a flight simulator if I chose to do so in the future. I want them to be identical so one does not seem to hold an advantage over the other when racing side by side (might be some competitive juices flowing that will look for excuses… lol).

I have been lurking in forums for a while now but just now stepping up to join one. I joined a forum a decade or more ago when building my home theatre and found that experience to be very beneficial. I hope this endeavor will be similar.

Decisions that have been made:

• These will be full cockpit sims with screens and not VR. I am currently looking hard at triple 32” curved screens. Buying 6 at once may hurt…. So may start with 1 each unless I can grab a good deal.
• Each will be run by a dedicated PC. To start this process and kick myself into gear… I just picked up the new Gaming PC’s tonight. Two CLX SET Gaming Desktop Intel Core I9-13900KF 64GB Memory – NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 2TB NVMe M.2 SSD + 6TG HDD.
• Due to the goal, neither will be absolutely form fitted to my size and driving and I understand that will be a compromise. These need to accommodate those from 5’2 to 6’2 with simply shifting the seat. (yes, again, I realize, not ideal).
• I will not be pursuing full motion rigs. Might add some shakers in the future, but not a priority.
• Feedback wheels are a must and will want the ability to swap out wheels in the future. Primary focus is round steering wheel to begin.
• Want excellent cable management and a clean look as they will be always out and in position. PC’s are internal lit with colors etc. so would like neat and organized.
• Rigs do not need to be on Wheels as they have a dedicated space.
• I will not be building the cockpits from scratch. I am fairly handy with tools and electrical but will not be creating from separate pieces of aluminum…tapping holes… etc. Neither the time nor the interest in that depth at this point. Looking pretty hard at Next Level Racing GT track but will discuss that more later.

Time Frame. Unlike my theatre build that took 18-24 months, I would like to be up and running in 2 months. PCs are now in hand so time to make decisions and get stuff ordered ASAP.

Skill set: I am handy and have a variety of tools but will probably stick with just assembly of kits. I have installed drives on computer but hope to keep most of this just plug and play.

Note, I fully understand that some will think that if I put the budget of these two into one, I would have a amazing rig and you are probably right, but that is not my purpose… So let it go… LOL

Budget:

No set number in mind. Willing to spend for quality but don’t want to get stupid either. (too late? LOL)

Equipment:

PC’s: Done

Two CLX SET Gaming Desktop Intel Core I9-13900KF 64GB Memory – NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 2TB NVMe M.2 SSD + 6TG HDD

Cockpit:

Looking hard that the Next Level Racing GT track. I am not thrilled with some of the comments I have read on the seat that comes with it for $300 for the seat. Some have said it is narrow and at least one other tore material when getting in and out of. Considering junk yard seats if I can find a matching pair in excellent shape.

Monitors:

Looking hard at curved 32”’s with possible going to triples. Still doing research on 4k… 1440… refresh rate… etc. This has been getting a bit overwhelming but need to focus and get this decision made. Watched some videos early today but scrambled my mind a bit.

I considered doing only one triple and just limiting it to one screen when racing side by side with the other sim… But what is two more monitors… LOL. $$$

Monitor stand:

Separate from cockpit so no vibration from cockpit. Ability to go Triple. Been looking at Next Level gear. Just thinking out loud here... but if this for multiple people that will be getting in and out, I may want to consider a monitor stand that slides away for entry and exit (rails, guides... ???) for ease of enter and exit without causing damage.

Wheel base:

Again, feedback crucial. Fanatec mentioned a ton and hard to overlook. Doing research on number of 8’s 12’s and so on… More info needed.

Hand Brake:

Do not think I will be installing one at this time.

Wheels:

Want to start with round wheels preferrable with built-in shifters. More research is needed. Like the shift lights several have… Some get carried away with all the buttons… (Please don’t gasp at that… LOL)

Pedals.

So much info…. Pedal and wheels appear sooo important…. But when I need 6…. More info needed. Hussingfeld look sweet… the price… not so much… lol

Shifters

Need more info. H vs sequential… Originally thought H was only way to go but thinking straight sequential may be better.

Speakers

No research done. Will be using speakers, not headphones. This is a dedicated game room two floors away from bedrooms and opposite side of house and 1 floor away from living room. No small children etc.

Software:

No clue where to start.

Other items:

• I have a 55 inch flat screen directly above the location where the sim screens will sit. Is there a way to tie that screen in to allow others to view an overview of what is going on in the race?
• Both will have wired internet connections. Is there a way, and if so, an advantage to wire the PC’s directly together? Does a direct connect network provide any advantages? Internet router on floor above. Each PC will have a dedicated line to router.
• What is the deal with virus protection now a days? Haven’t bought a new computer in probably 8 years and have been told external software may do more harm than good with newer PC’s???

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback. Will continue to search threads and more info.

I will post pictures of the space soon.

 

[metalnwood]

I am reading between the lines that you are also new to sim racing, or you have done it with controllers and want to take the leap. You said no budget set yet but put off by the price of premium pedals - though in your case there will be better cheaper options.

I know it is not what you were asking but as it seems you are very new to the whole space you may love it or in a couple months think it was a big mistake.

It seems that the aspect of playing with friends family is a big one, is that the only intention? Is this something that you will only use when there is someone to go in the other rig or is it something that you will primarily use by yourself 95% of the time and maybe on a weekend when mates are around you may have some races together?

If it is really just for the social aspect then go for it how you propose. If you see yourself the main user and you want another rig for when others are around, even if not frequent, then I would approach it differently.

If it turns out that you really like sim racing you are probably going to wish you got better gear than you did. If it was me in your position, knowing where I am now I would put as much $ in to one and make a second rig with lesser gear. You can also let friends use the better rig when they are about, you will beat them in the cheaper rig anyhow.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

On a social aspect. How exactly are you planning to play with (against) friend and what sims?
Usually it's either solitary against AI racing or full blown MP with whoever is on the server, not just your buddy.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Andrew has a solid point here, I also don´t know any racing games with "Lan Party" multi player mode.
How much fuss to setup your own (online?) server? I don´t know, I´m "mechanically gifted."
Honestly, how much use do think the two rigs will see, as they can be used by two people at a time it´s not exactly a party game, isn´t it?

Building an aluminium rig ist just bolting parts together, NO drilling threads et al. required.
Maybe whatch a build thread on Youtube?
If you can stand the look it´s the best and most versatile option.
Same for the monitor stands. There are easy cad programs online where you can design a rig to your liking and will get a parts list.
If that´s cheaper depends on your local conditions. when comparing offers factor in shipping, things things are unwieldy and heavy.
For me it was wash to drive 200km´s to collect my rig parts.

Can´t comment on the wheelbase options, I went directly from "my first wheelbase TM T300" to a high end Direct drive. Direct drives have become way more affordable, but others have to chime in there, no experience for me.

Separate shifter is nice addon, you´ll get most mileage out of a steering wheel with paddle shifters, so most simracers don´t have use for clutch pedal.
I use mine for race starts, but most can do without.

Seats from irl cars are a solid option up to mid to high level brake pedals, for my 80kg brake pressure I had to reinforce my street car Recaro with a profile frame. Advantage would be good versatility with sliders and height adjustment, drawbacks could be wear and tear and creeky sounds.
Best to pull the seat yourself, than you can "test brake" them in the car.
Passenger seats usualy are in way better shape than driver seats, beware of the airbags that are common today. In some countries you need a explosives licence to handle airbags ( for obvious reasons) I also wouldn´t want that in my appartment.

For me it´s always tripple screen, best combination of immersion, comfort and visuals ( who´s side by side, where´s my apex)
A 4070 should drive tripple 1440p sufficiently, no need for ultrawides ( when going triple)
For triples to work without fuss you´ll need three identical monitors, or there will be trouble with Nvidea surround.

 

[metalnwood]

I think you can do the lan thing fairly easily, but maybe only these days with ams2 or older pcars2 to setup a passworded session. Otherwise you do generally face having to have some server running which can be a pita to manage.

 

[DrewRPh]

Excellent feedback from all. Thank-you.

Yes, new to what would be described as sims today. Caught the bug 25+ years ago when I had a very basic set of pedals, a clip-on steering wheel and multifunction joystick. Titles included Nascar Heat, Driver, and Microsoft flight simulator.... 98!!! Then, life happened, and it all went away. Fast forward to today and my youngest is 15 and she has always been drawn to the driving simulators in arcades. One goal is to snag as much time with her before she is out of the house and off to adulthood.

Do I think I will use it more than just in the social settings? Absolutely. I have always enjoyed racing games and have thought about a sim for years. With the kids growing and recently getting out of management at work, the opportunity and time now presents itself. Have a friend that has been using a flight sim for pilot training and is now a licensed pilot with a plane. Not sure I will go that far... lol

I have been searching on this and other forums for info on a way to race side by side and was planning to ask that question soon. Trying not to ask questions where the answers are already posted. If difficult to race in the same race, we could still race for times in the same race.

If it turns out that you really like sim racing you are probably going to wish you got better gear than you did. If it was me in your position, knowing where I am now I would put as much $ in to one and make a second rig with lesser gear. You can also let friends use the better rig when they are about, you will beat them in the cheaper rig anyhow

I have gone back and forth on this continually... and thought that like you mentioned, could give the "better sim" to the other drivers (or my daughter) when playing head-to-head. As for the "mates", I am thinking of a group of neighbors/friends tipping back a few beverages as we rotate through laps and talking about how green our lawns are etc... Maybe a dry erase board for times of a particular track... Just boys with toys kind of thing.

As for the budget comment, if I feel the expense is necessary to get me to my goal, I will do it. There is just a bit of sticker shock on some of the hardware where some numbers just seem out of place. Believe me... I am all for buying quality once rather than having to upgrade later or live with regret. Just not sure I need $600-$1000 pedals on each rig for my level of use and expectations. Trying to read lots of review and threads. Spent most of my time today researching monitors but did notice the Hussingfeld sprint pedals might be a more reasonable option.

It is probably good that Best Buy was out of stock on-line today of Oddyssey G6 curved 32" 16x9 240Hz 1440 monitors or i may have just dropped $3k on six of them. Listed at $799 each but $300 off each right now... If you could get them. Want to do a little more research on monitors anyway....

I will watch more build video for the frame.

From what I have been researching, the direct drive wheels are the way to go. Stil not sure of the strength needed. 8, 12, 20 and so forth. Don't need to rip my hands off but want to feel it.

Passenger seats usualy are in way better shape than driver seats, beware of the airbags that are common today. In some countries you need a explosives licence to handle airbags ( for obvious reasons) I also wouldn´t want that in my appartment.

I was just thinking about the air bag thing today. Thanks for the heads up through.

I am with you on the identical. I was only going to buy 1 PC now but figured if I waited to add another, might not end up with the same box and want as few variables as possible. As mentioned above, was thinking of only going 1 monitor each not but think I will just bite the bullet now to get identical hardware.

One more question. How often and how accessible does your keyboard and mouse need to be if you don't want to be getting up all the time? I have seen separate rolling trays or attached shelves to the rig... Preference??? Just wondering where all the pieces will go with this. I will be searching forum photos for this as well.

Thanks again.

 

[DrewRPh]

Here is the future space. Spare couch to go and treadmill to be moved into workout room. PC's still hiding in their boxes... Bottom of 55" TV is 70 inches off floor so the rigs should fit under that.

 

[simracingfanatic]

I like my Simucube 2 Pro, but I think a VRS Direct Force Pro or Simucube 2 Sport will work well. I used to run my Simucube at lower torque, but have been slowly increasing the force as I've gotten stronger over the months.

 

[Michael Krone]

Just wanna bring up the airbag thing. Triple then quadruple check, personally, that they have been removed if using power seats that will have power supplied to them.

I had one pop on me after being promised (from a guy I know well at the scrap yard) that they were removed. He didnt lie, just removed the obvious one but it was my fault for not confirming.

Some of those seats, without being hooked up to the cars computer systems, and given power, will set off the airbags.

 

[DrewRPh]

Ok, time to take a deep breath. Been jumping around researching all morning. Monitors, wheelbases and cockpits.

Looking hard at the Next Level Elite 160 Wheel Plate Edition ($1149) with the ERS1 Elite Reclining Seat ($399). Looks very solid and essentially ready to roll other than assembly. Yes, could probably build much cheaper but trying to put this together fairly quickly and place high value on my time right now. Don't think I could outgrow this rig and can continue to add to it as needed. Might not convert to Flight sim as easily as some of the other rigs but it is what it is.

Just over 3k for the pair so may take a day or two more to sleep on the decision if I am going to continue down the path of 2 high quality Rigs.

I will hold off on monitor stands until monitors are purchased. Still planning free standing stands so they do not vibrate with the cockpit.

I have decided that both will be triple screens. Just have to find the right monitors. May be shopping price here as $ x 6 makes a significant difference...

Been watching and reading comparisons on wheel bases all morning. Simucube 2 Pro seems to be a sweet spot I could not outgrow, and only slightly more expensive than the sport version. I am impressed with how the steering wheel locks into place on these without vibrations from a loose fit. Still a little sticker shock.... $1,379 + $89 for the mount..... TIMES 2??? Deep breath...

Why am I doing 2 again... LOL Yes, I heard the comments about downsizing one... I am just venting a bit.

As for steering wheels... Not sure how to pick this out without experience. I like the RPM lighting and built in shifters on the Simucube Valo GT-23 but with no experience with sims in the last 20 years... hard to pick out. Simucube also states that Simucube link is necessary for the lightly to work and they are currently unavailable??? Anyone running that wheel??? Comments???

 

[stigs2cousin]

Oh man,

you´re really going "balls to the wall" here.

I´m using Heusinkveld and Simucube for years now, just didn´t want to recommend because of the (doubled) cost. Big recommendation from me as you don´t seem put off by the cost.
Sprints should be enough, a reclining seat won´t be stiff enough for the (possible) higher forces on the Ultimates.(which are smoother because of the dampers, but 500$ smoother??)
Also the hugh forces need training, not recommended for casual users.
BTTW, there are combination shifters H-Pattern and sequential (clutch needed), but I´d put that on the afterburner. They need practice.

I can´t recommend steering wheels as I mostly use DIY blank wheels with seperate shifters and an Ascher formula wheel.

The rigs are a little overspecced for now, but won´t fail you in the future.
It should be not a big problem to reconfigure one of the rigs to flight service, aluminium profile is extremely versatile once you get the hang of it.
You just need to find a local supplier for smaller quantities. I´ll get a shipping tomorrow with some bits and pieces to mount additional bassshakers.

It´s also not rocket science to design your own monitor mounts.
Maybe even hardmounted to the walls? have a look at this video (for inspiration, not to copy his hack job

Usually you don´t need a keyboard for racing, once the sim is set up and the names of the contenders entered everything can be done with a mouse. So plug one keyboard into the PC where you need it now.

 

[Ruttman98]

From your Best Buy reference, it sounds like you are in the U.S. Do you have a Microcenter store nearby (within 3 states' drive)? They have embraced sim racing with both arms and have a variety of products from entry level (Logitech G929 & Thrustmaster belt drive) to mid-range direct drive (Moza R5/R9 and Asetek TK (Tony Kanaan) 12 Nm wheelbases) to mid-level advanced (Simucube Sport and Pro/Asetek Forte and Invicta).

Do not skimp on pedals--no other imput device will make you drive with more predictability. Heuskinveld Sprints are superior to any Fanatec or Thrustmaster offering. I am not sold on any of the Asetek pedals. Simagic have some interesting options with tactile while Simucube has the top end covered with their active pedal. Simlabs pedals look impressive also.

I urge you to look at Advanced Sim Racing (ASR) for an aluminum profile rig and the gold standard--SimLab--which is stocked at Microcenter (also available as TK private label). The Next Level Racing product may be fine but it seems like a premium price. Check out RC/!Heliguy's build thread for his dual purpose sim racing/flight simulator and recent adaptation of a special wheel deck from ASR.

FAMOUS LAST WORDS (for now): Be sure to sit in any seat before buying it. I have a (now surplus) MSRP $1200 Recaro Pole Position which fits me in the hips but not in the shoulders.

 

[DrewRPh]

Maybe even hardmounted to the walls?

Ooooo... did not think of that. With the dedicated space that could be a sweet idea. Would eliminate the need for stands cluttering the floor space and would be rock solid. Thanks.

 

[stigs2cousin]

And a last question before my bed time (it´s late in Germany ):

do you have the electrical power for two simrigs in your corner?

The usual 240V16A circuit breaker here can sustain my simrig with four monitors, 850w PC, two amps for tactile and a 450W Simucube.
A second one would literally "blow a fuse"

 

[Neilski]

The usual 240V16A circuit breaker here

Oooh, I hadn't realised that Germany (and maybe much of Europe?) uses that approach. Here in the UK, 240V 30A (or 32A) mains rings are the norm. No idea what's typical in the US though.

 

[DrewRPh]

Just back from dinner...

Yes, USA.

Do you have a Microcenter store nearby (within 3 states' drive)?

Yes. 126 miles. Not too bad.

Heuskinveld Sprints are superior to any...

That is the way I am leaning right now. Need to spend a little more time looking though.

I urge you to look at Advanced Sim Racing (ASR) for an aluminum profile rig and the gold standard--SimLab--which is stocked at Microcenter (also available as TK private label)

I looked at SimLab but not yet ASR. I will. Looked at Sim Labs, Trac Racer, GT Omega and Next Level.

Check out RC/!Heliguy's build thread for his dual purpose sim racing/flight simulator and recent adaptation of a special wheel deck from ASR.

Will do.

FAMOUS LAST WORDS (for now): Be sure to sit in any seat before buying it.

Exactly!!! I am really struggling trying to buy a seat without sitting in it first. Thanks for the MicroLab suggestion. I may give them a call tomorrow to see what displays they have available for trial before making the journey over there. We also have a local place called Game Room Guys but it doesn't look like they do much with sims. More old arcade games and pin ball.

do you have the electrical power for two simrigs in your corner?

You beat me to the punch here. I was actually looking at this earlier today. When I built the house 20 years ago, I purposely put 3 outlets on this wall thinking I might put old school arcade games or pin ball on that wall (two for equipment and one above for the large TV) but they are probably on the same circuit (will need to test as that was a LONG time ago.) I don't plan to add motion equipment right away. If I do end up needing more, I have a ton of capacity and fairly easy run as it is fairly close to breaker panel. I will add that to my list.

Update.... Just checked. I have 3 lower outlets in the corner/wall but they (and the one above) are all on the same 120v 20amp breaker. If I add motion, I will probably need to run another circuit.

Thanks.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Hy Drew,

after braining some more I measured the distance from the back of my wheelbase to the end of the pedal deck. To get the monitors to the back of the wheelbase (thats the consensus about the best distance for FOV) the monitors would be two feet of the wall.
With the wheight and leverage involved that would put some serious strain on the anchors and the wall.

 

[Botmeister]

Speaker setups aren't the most popular part of simrigs. So I would like to share my unique 3.1 design.
- 3 pieces of 40x40 alu, length around 30-35cm
- 6 corner pieces
- Set of Vogel's VLB500 mounts (speakers need to have a threaded hole)
- Costs around EU 50/60 (add 20 for 5.1)

Looks good. Mounted tightly. And the audio actually goes straight to my ears like it should. Personally not so fond of these kind of solutions which lead me to create something more fitted to my needs.

 

[DrewRPh]

With the wheight and leverage involved that would put some serious strain on the anchors and the wall.

Ahhh... Yes... that probably would not be ideal. Thought for a min about hanging from ceiling just now but that would block view of wall mounted TV. Back to stands it is.

 

[DrewRPh]

Speaker setups aren't the most popular part of simrigs. So I would like to share my unique 3.1 design

Very cool. I was wondering if they should be up top or on the left and right of the side monitors. That looks like simple solution if I am already using aluminum brackets. Starting to wonder if monitor stands need to be a little beefier for 3 monitors and speakers. Haven't done much research on the stands yet.

Thanks