Twin Sims... The Build

[DrewRPh]

For years now I wanted to build a shift/clutch lockout so I could only shift when the clutch is fully engaged but never got around to it

Have you seen the thread on the Bash Pro Active H-Shifter HERE?

I looked at this shifter for quite a while yesterday. Saw a review including the internal mechanisms and how it works. To be honest, though it appears to be built solid, all the moving parts looked like extra points of failure. I think they are on the right track if there is enough of a market for H pattens since it seems everyone likes their sequential paddles. But, boy that thing is UGLY... LOL And pricy...

H patten might be more of a USA thing as many of us grew up with either 4 on the floor or 3 on the tree. A race car without a clutch??? Wasn't even on my radar through I am sure I will learn to love the wheel paddles in the future.

I didn't see the above linked thread until this morning but, his conclusions mirrored what I was thinking.
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I see a few opportunities for improvement:

• The box is unattractive
• Sequential mode could use a side-to-side restriction
• It's noisy
• Have 8 slots total, like the Fanatec shifter pattern, so reverse can be mapped on the other side of the box if desired

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[DrewRPh]

Goals for tomorrow.

1. Make final decision on shifter and get it ordered.
2. Order second seat.
3. Research wheel and wheel button box a bit more.

1. Decision made. Simagic DS-8X. ORDERED!!!
2. Second Corbeau Seat F1X Wide ORDERED!!!

3. Seems to be so many wheels with buttom boxes yet I still keep going back to the Ascher button box... $$$

I really like the look and shape of the Sportline Imola 3 but it is on back order. Think I need a nap... LOL

 

[stigs2cousin]

I'm way too cheap for the high dollar shifters.
I can live with the feel of the VNM H-pattern, it's the clutch lockout that's missing.
One day I'll probably build something like the Frexx solution which is pull/push cable operated.

 

[DrewRPh]

Wow... Have spent sooooo much time looking at wheels and wheel button plates today...

Have narrowed the button plate to either Sim Racing Bay BB Ultra or the Ascher B24.

Nearly forgot this recommendation way back on page 5 of this thread and was stuck on Ascher for a while. I don't believe the Ascher would be a poor choice either but think I will go SRB.

Dont overlook button boxes. SRB boxes connect wirelessly to SC2 and you can put whatever blank wheel you like on them.

SRB BB Ultra V2 - SimRacingBay

SIMUCUBE, WIRELESS STEERING WHEEL SIMRACINGBAY SRB

www.simracingbay.com

The Ascher is a little more expensive and I don't see any real advantage. It apparently has additional magnets to alter feel of paddles but the SRB reviews well and the shifters might be a bit quieter.

 

[DrewRPh]

Wheels.... back to Wheels, I was looking at back on page 4-6 of this thread...

So I thought I had final contender here, but I have a quesiton.

Dish? Yes, I figured out what it is, but is there anything I should be shooting for?

I see the Imola 3 I was looking at was a flat wheel (zero dish). (It also happenes to be out of stock.)

Now I am looking at the Momo Team wheel (300mm) perforated Air Leather and it has a dish of 40mm. Is that going to "recess" the buttons on the button plate?

Are the flat wheels preferred for the button plates?

 

[DrewRPh]

Might have found my answer... UG... shoot me now...

Yes, most button boxes available on the market are impossible to install on dished rims, or at least they look bad, and also you have the problem of the distance to the paddle shifters. However, you can also build your own button box, and if you like rally style, mount a front button box. In my opinion button boxes on a a street or rally car are not really a must (especially with VR) and aesthetically, it's a crime to install one on a beautiful and classy dished rim. As regards paddles, however, you can have them installed, but it requires some adjustments. Some people use spacers to bring the paddles to the front, although they don't look elegant in my opinion. I made my own mount for my semi-dished rim, with custom 3D-printed paddles, which are a bit on angle towards the driver, and the result is very comfortable to use. It was not easy and it required many measurements and tests.

 

[DrewRPh]

Found another answer...

I personally would not use a dished wheel with a buttonbox because than you had to reach "into the wheel" to use buttons and encoders.

With a flat wheel these are in reach of your thumbs as they sit just "inside" the rim.
Having controls 40mm back would feel awkward.

I´d also opt for the lighter wheel, you can feel the difference in FFB fidelity and dynamics even on powerfull wheelbases. (SC2pro for me.)

At the Moment I use a Fanatec R300 that I bought used.
It has a good size with 300mm and is not to heavy. PCD is the usual 70mm and it has zero electronics, so should not fail and need customer service


MFG Carsten

 

[DrewRPh]

From almost 2 years ago but applicable thread.

SRB BB Ultra or Asher B24 SC​

So now I need a pair of 300mm FLAT wheels.... LOL Wish I would have known that about 6 hours ago...

Better to find out now rather than after I order them...

 

[RasmusP]

I see the Imola 3 I was looking at was a flat wheel (zero dish). (It also happenes to be out of stock.)

Now I am looking at the Momo Team wheel (300mm) perforated Air Leather and it has a dish of 40mm.

For the Imola 3:

It also hast the famous "around 40mm dish". It isn't really a dished wheel, it's just that if you put the wheel on the floor, the mounting area and the outer rim both are touching the floor, instead of the rim touching the floor, while the mounting surface would float in the air.

It's pretty standard for all rims to be like that, but some are really completely flat, which can easily lead to issues with some buttons. Like the button right below the spoke. If my Imola 300 would be completely flat, it would press down on the housing of that button and it wouldn't work.

My GT rim was exactly like that. Flat on the rear side, slightly dished on the front. Without this, the buttons on the bottom wouldn't have had enough space.

 

[DrewRPh]

It also hast the famous "around 40mm dish". It isn't really a dished wheel, it's just that if you put the wheel on the floor, the mounting area and the outer rim both are touching the floor, instead of the rim touching the floor, while the mounting surface would float in the air.

Thanks for the reply.

The Imola 300 is listed as having a zero dish and sits exactly as you describe.

The replacement I was looking at is the MOMO Team which is listed at a 40mm dish and they do not have a comprable picture to verify it sits flat as does the one above.

The below image suggests the center is recessed and if sat on a flat surface, the outer rim would be off the floor.

 

[stigs2cousin]

When comparing prices keep in mind that SRB is without VAT.
Stumbled over that on myself.
Quality wise they should be on the same level,comes down to personal preference.

 

[simracingfanatic]

All of the 300mm wheels I've encountered are egg-shaped. The distance from the top to the centerpoint is longer than the distance from the bottom to the centerpoint. It's my biggest complaint when drifting (either purposely or not).

I have two 300mm wheels: an OMP Trecento Uno and an unknown Momo (model Typ D 30).
I like both wheels. The Momo is probably my favorite, by a slim margin, due to the quality leather grips. The Trecento Uno has a really aggressive - but comfortable - grip at the 9 and 3 o'clock positions.

The Trecento Uno, when placed on a flat surface, equally touches the surface with both the mounting point and the outer rim.

On the other hand, the Momo's outer rim is floating while the mounting point touches the flat surface.

If I were strictly racing something like a GT3 car (low steering angle, not likely to drift and countersteer), I would choose the OMP Trecento Uno. The shape of the grips are extremely comfortable, and provides excellent control.

But I don't like GT3 cars, so I mostly use my Momo. The slight dished effect of the Momo isn't an issue when pressing buttons. However, it does make it harder to use the paddle shifters. I work around this issue by purchasing longer bolts and spacers to keep the paddles within reach of my fingers.

 

[simracingfanatic]

A benefit of the SRB button box is that you can move it vertically to allow for better button placement.

 

[DrewRPh]

And the winner is... Well, they are on back order, so we will see if they come in...

Going with the Leather Imola 3 with the red stripe.

By far not the most expensive option should I decide to change in the future.

We will see if 4.5 weeks is enough time to get them here. Build scheduled to start 4/26. Considered two different wheels but again, not a huge out of pocket item.

Now If I can just choose between the SRB and Ascher button box....

 

[DrewRPh]

Decision made and ORDERED!!! I think I need a Drink!!! That is the last major decision...and expense... for now... WHEW!!!

 

[DrewRPh]

Fourth Monitor for dummies thread for reference.

New Tactile for 23/24 thread for reference.

 

[DrewRPh]

About 8 hours of peace... Then I have come to the conclusion I am going to need some type of tactile solution. Will not be a complete rig movement solution (D3 or the like) as I already spent that budget on a second rig (Let the "I told you so's commence...).

But with all that are going into these rigs, could I allow the only feedback to be in the wheelbase? I think not.

I was just doing a "for dummies" seach in this forum but short on time right now. I will do more later. But if anyone knows of a particular thread or two for the total NOOB to get started, it would be appreciated. Absolute basics. I am willing to put in the time and do the research but so many threads go over my head so fast with acronyms and terminology... like trying to start in 3rd gear... LOL

 

[stigs2cousin]

You could start with exciters/ smaller shakers on the pedals for brake and slip feedback and two larger shakers on the seat for roadfeel/slip and engine feedback.
One four channel amp and an external sound card.

But I strongly advise to give it a pause now, go at it when you have the rigs dialled in

 

[simracingfanatic]

From what I've gleaned over the years, the ideal shaker setup is to place them on (under) your seat and pedals. You'll use SimHub to configure a "front/rear" layout. The shakers beneath your pedals will convey what your front two tires are doing, and the shakers beneath your seat will represent your rear tires.

Ideally you'll want to isolate your pedals and seat to minimize vibrations to the rest of your chassis (and house), which will maximize transmission to your body.

I use this style of setup and am very pleased with it. I haven't found a need to change it. It does the job very well, and I am pleasantly immersed and informed.

 

[Mr Latte]

You could start with exciters/ smaller shakers on the pedals for brake and slip feedback and two larger shakers on the seat for roadfeel/slip and engine feedback.
One four channel amp and an external sound card.

But I strongly advise to give it a pause now, go at it when you have the rigs dialled in

Good advice....
Much to setup and configure with both rigs before adding more at this stage.

The potential with the new BDS exciter is superb and based on what it offers over other budget options. Multiple stereo pairs on a seat and with 1 or 2 larger low bass extension units will offer people an experience that's very enjoyable.