The Elephant in the room

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Cote Dazur

SIM Addict
I want to share a concern that I have about AMS2. It does not seem to be discussed, but when comparing how many player actually play the game, I am very worried this game will get any traction ever. It is no just less than other SIM, it is very very little, particularly as it is new.

I would love to hear what Reiza think of the abysmally small amount of user.

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How many use a game does not reflect on how good it is, AMS2 is good, but not having user, hence no money coming in has to be some how worry some for Reiza and by consequence to existing user.

By all the coverage here in RD and all the superlative in this thread, you could be tempted to think that this is the next big thing for SIM racer. Not so much, why is their not more players?
 
if we have enough players buying the game sticking with it so we can do our business we´ll be fine, and we´re well within our target so far - if expectations were for things to be any different I´d say the issue is with the expectations.

Thank you for the precisions, I think that I understand your point of view. You have reached your goals so far and you except this to continue with the present strategy.
If, any one as a different expectation, that is where the issue is, like expecting more daily user at this point in time.
You have been clear since day one that we (Reiza and the players) would need to be patient.
Let's wait then!
 
People do not do nuance very well- especially on the internet where we use descriptors and definitions etc.

I am guilty of writing things that do not adhere to that lol... in terms of expecting one to fully comprehend. But no matter how much differing opinion on this I honestly think its all wrong. A blanket statement I know - but I find the 'premise' of this thread is wrong.

Apologies on that! But hey...its an imperfect thread, its not a big deal either way.

But look I am on goffiks attitude in this, but I differ in that the AI is good for me, the principle he is on about is what I also agree with totally - guy does strike a balance. by the same token renato seems to have very good optics on the whole thing - after all he is on the other side of the steam stats do not forget.

if anyone for example turns up to work and accidentally puts in a 7 into the box for changing something instead of a 5 - this is not an analogy about the gear thing - I won't be hassling them. Things take time. I am an interested onlooker, no different to watching star citizen or something.... I do not even demand things, as I prefer organic growth. If I think it I know 50 others have probably or will think it.

This whole thing is a feature thing. The game is really fun; look pcars 2 I mention, raceroom, acc, ac, they're all fun.

Why can it not be enough for people (to take a positive angle) to just accept that AMS2 is 'in the bunch' and be happy with that - its not this massive issue.

You might want to ask why raceroom is so low for 10 years? I absolutely enjoy it - but then, hey, I enjoy subnautica and ark (I dont know why, though....) so look, just play it when you want. You own it now so relax...

Just because someone asks a question does NOT mean its an apt question, or they make a conclusion or express an opinion or just wonder on a topic - it does not need to mean its conclusive 'anything' about anything.

If people doubt that then maybe apply some scientific method to it, because afai can tell they patch the thing each month - its called progress. And we know that is no hypothesis - its a fact. Its been/being actively patched, so thats that for me.

The game I leave rather than refuse to play when I get the time is bannerlord - lol patches x 1000, but I won't play it until they finish it. AMS2 is one I do play in the interim.

I do not think its the worlds greatest thread because its judgemental about something which should not be judged yet - yes we bought it - and not all will agree to buy it just now - but we still get value out of it. I am pretty sure when the value in there to the level others expect, as an independent onlooker the title will continue to do well, in my opinion.

I have a saying of sorts - if things were not like this, the world would fall down. Or similar saying depending. Clearly from that statement I think the thread title was not chosen well by the poster, though it may be legitimate interest; it just doesn't take into account a wider purview, and from what I see (and how I calculate things) :: remit :: is the word. Well those things are in alignment from all stakeholders as a function of the work we know is going to go into it... so I think its not a big problem.

Different example - a lot of the time when I see a complaint online I understand the guy/girl may have been sitting on that complaint for some time - so its like a reverse iceberg type thing. Things get sorted out. Its going to be sitting on their steam page for ages - they will get around to it again.
 
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offline players make up the bulk of our player base


As one of those offline players, I would love it if there was more to do, specifically, something like the licence tests in Gran Turismo of old.

Short, single player challenges with some form of reward (liveries, cars or whatever). It would make the game more beginner friendly (something lacking in sims) and bulk it out a bit.

I know Assetto Corsa did this but the challenges were all a lap+ and not as fun/accessible as shorter events.
 
As one of those offline players, I would love it if there was more to do, specifically, something like the licence tests in Gran Turismo of old.

Short, single player challenges with some form of reward (liveries, cars or whatever). It would make the game more beginner friendly (something lacking in sims) and bulk it out a bit.

I know Assetto Corsa did this but the challenges were all a lap+ and not as fun/accessible as shorter events.
I'm not for the reward thing as it would potentially lock content for those who don't want to do those challenges, but I would enjoy these.
I'm more of a hotlap guy so I would like Reiza to enhance this part of the sim.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Looks like we've lost 37.3% players in the last 30 days.
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Looks like we've lost 37.3% players in the last 30 days.
View attachment 444090


I am glad you brought this up because it does raise a critisism I and many others have.

And it comes at a time where I can make a recent and relevant point on it. I think the thread from a holistic perspective is a bit of a wash but that doesn't mean valid individual criticisms are there.


I know reiza are not a huge dev and that is fine - they still do dev.

I just wish they had launched the game with an awesome career mode. It would have done so much for the title - or at least launch it with the framework of such a thing in place.

If a game like Valheim (probably it seems this is valid) can do such a thing, and on a larger scale, then I am at a loss as to wonder why this was not in the strategy. Or some other mechanism in the title to keep people around and gain more talk/chatter about the title, etc.

And while I am on the topic, I just want to point out something I came across in an unrelated search.


__

I played Asseto corsa the other day and I made sure to set things up right (I had overlooked it for acc and ams2 and rrr3e and rf2) and of course I already had content manager, stacks of mods and cars...but I set it up and its of course a great game with the right combo. I already had the DLC/ultimate edition, got it very cheaply.

Why would a person not choose to play that instead?

An example - I put the Audi rms ultra or whatever on a bridgehamptom modded circuit, with the Sol update and the rain patch for that from the dev on patreon, and I ask again, why would any one pass that up?

Now, personally I particularly don't mind ams2 - but I showed the Gf who had a great crack at AC and she said its 'on par'

lol make of that what you will. And I considered it, and I always enjoy my time in AC, be it that or Laguna Seca or many others. The new bathurst track model is especially good in AC now from the reboot team i think, a port of ACC.

__

But importantly compare Valheim (early access) to ARK survival evolved. Already surpassed it, and they must have known they needed to hit the ground running.

Covid I am not allowing for. But its not the intent of this post to cast judgement or lay blame. I am not doing that, I am merely observing something. Because its widely known how lousy ARK was when it first released in terms of many things, but most importantly the curious 'oh damn' feeling people had when it ran like a heater for your house, and also was unoptimized and they just went about making new features etc.

Total difference to Valheim where they must have learnt some lessons. Now do I think..... lol... no - riding dinosaurs in terms of those games is 100 times better but another reason ark struggled despite how beautiful and engaging it was (and I do not appreciate hitting a tree one million times unless I guess its a tribe thing) is how difficult it was - it needed balancing and tribes became over powered for many servers and also I did not play it until rather recently (overly much) and its taken people roughly 5 years to get a decent single player experience, and online became toxic, of which I avoided all that.

Now people know what the score is, they do not seek that out. Its a great game atm and a kind of pioneer to the story-arc and tiers of grinding (lol!) theme, bosses etc... - but I am talking about whatever it was 2015 when it came out. If something is not setting new ground then people will not forgive it. And there's no reading the play on those things, but I would have thought ams2 would have released further along - because I guess everyone knows first impressions last.

To just finish on some kind of note: a takeaway, I find it hard to believe, liking driving sims (though driving itself way more) that out of 7 billion people, ok some of them baby's and old people - only 250 want to play it concurrently. Valheim has 160k (first month, right), ark had maybe 150 at its peak from a larger pool of players on steam... be that as it may, its got nothing to do with being the flavor of the months... why? ready?

Hitting a tree 100 times and 160k concurrent players, is a long m-f-ing way from 250 people "hooning" down the nordshlief in some of the most exciting objects made by man. There is no comparison. To the numbers I mean: obviously there's many comparisons to be made about the game itself.

When you finish Subnautica they make mention of the youtube/twitch people they paid off to play the game. Sometimes "things" just happen. Dont they...

Don't they? ... haha


It can't be helped if people think ark or sub or valheim are veritable piles of trash. The market is what it is. But thats neither here nor there. Its what the dev said - no multiplayer, etc etc etc. Thats probably only the half of it. The thread is a wash because as long as the man is being fed, etc, and also I would be more concerned with your own enjoyment of the title.

__

Anyway - its my belief though I mentioned covid - it was good and bad... good people got more game time I suppose - bad that ALL those devs - everywhere - fixed their lousy titles... lol - it seemed a bad time to begin to plan/map out new features or dlc's etc, well maybe except those in the works already, so there was a quandry. IS this no JOKE? Have we not seen more updates/patches, etc on steam this year than at any other?

So sad/crazy/amazing you could not write the script even if you tried.
 
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Why would a person not choose to play that instead?


AMS2 has some advantages, particularly if you're a VR player. I'm happy with what I paid for it in the Steam sale on the basis that things are still being improved/added.

One major thing it has over AC is downloadable ghosts. That aside, single player is disappointing. I want specific events/challenges to test myself on (as a noob trying to get better), not meaningless AI races. I find I'm playing AMS2 for its VR performance/convenience then going back to AC to try and beat the special events.

I think the fact the game is unfinished is perhaps why people start playing then step away - it's annoying to see little things not fixed like multiple cars having wrong details about being h-pattern or sequential.
 
When I have a powerful enough computer and when I see it's a finished/complete enough game with few enough bugs to be a legit consumer-ready 1.0 release, I'll support Reiza (who I think are good devs) and buy this, but not before. Until then I'll keep enjoying the amazing and relatively potato-PC-friendly experience offered by AMS1. I imagine a fair number of others (with AMS1 or other sims of choice they dig e.g. AC) are thinking the same as me and don't buy yet OR regret their purchase and will step away until it's ready (like @dan0812 said above).

EDIT: I may be being unfair, but I'm going based on trusted opinions like Billy Strange and Jimmy Broadbent, among others. If I'm way off-base, LMK.
 
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When the highest player counts in sim racing are 6000-10000 with Assetto Corsa/ iRacing it just proves the point that sim racing is not popular and just a niche genre in the gaming world.
So a niche Brazilian racing game in a niche genre is gonna have even fewer players.

I'm also capable of making my own decisions and don't need to depend on YouTubers to make them for me, especially when steam has a refund option ;)

Edit:
Rather than being "influenced" by the opinions of two youtbers, you could also read through the 87% of 2100 Very positive reviews the game has received.
Is the game complete and polished...No
Are there bugs....Yes
Does it show lots of potential.....IMO Absolutely

Capture.PNG
 
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I may be being unfair, but I'm going based on trusted opinions like Billy Strange and Jimmy Broadbent, among others. If I'm way off-base, LMK.
I wouldn't place my decision on the arguments of a handful of Youtubers alone, but also read the arguments for and against here and maybe on the official Reiza forums. You'll have a better basis for your decision then imo. This just in: If you're looking for a complete experience, AMS2 is not yet the title to go for.
 
When the highest player counts in sim racing are 6000-10000 with Assetto Corsa/ iRacing it just proves the point that sim racing is not popular and just a niche genre in the gaming world.
So a niche Brazilian racing game in a niche genre is gonna have even fewer players.

I'm also capable of making my own decisions and don't need to depend on YouTubers to make them for me, especially when steam has a refund option ;)
Which part of AC has sold $100 000 000 don't you understand?
I keep saying that these silly independents need to join forces, get a decent bank loan and produce a much larger game.
All that some of these guys are doing is playing it safe and making some sort of living.
 
Which part of AC has sold $100 000 000 don't you understand?
I keep saying that these silly independents need to join forces, get a decent bank loan and produce a much larger game.
All that some of these guys are doing is playing it safe and making some sort of living.
The part of why you're using the sales numbers of a 8 yr old title on pc/console, that has been heavily modded by the community and goes on sale for less than $10 regularly to a 6-month-old indie title.

Maybe they want to be a small company?
I'm sure they have probably been approached in the past but and are happy with what they have..
If you don't like their choice, there's several other big games to keep you happy. :)
 
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The part of why you're using the sales numbers of a 8 yr old title on pc/console, that has been heavily modded by the community and goes on sale for less than $10 regularly to a 6-month-old indie title.

Maybe they want to be a small company?
I'm sure they have probably been approached in the past but and are happy with what they have..
If you don't like their choice, there's several other big games to keep you happy. :)
Why would they want to be a small company given what could be achieved if they teamed up with other devs and essentially mimicked what kunos did?

They get a bucket load of money and we get a larger sim that doesn't take forever to finish.
 
I like AMS2, it does most things reasonably well, but it doesn’t really have a USP as yet that will create a decent sized loyal community. When it first launched I really enjoyed some of the original content and tracks, but everything since then is pretty much available on another establish sim, and it’s not doing them significantly better so justify switching over. I’ll keep on supporting it and playing for a bit of fun now and then, but IMO it still needs to decide what market it’s trying to capture....
 
btw is this game fully released now or still beta?
AMS2 is now a full price beta. It seems all the work goes into DLC, the progress of the game apart from DLC is sloooow. Oh and sometimes an single Update simply detroys all the progress made. You also better delete your games setting files after every patch and learn to drive every car new again.
 
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