The Elephant in the room

[Cote Dazur]

I want to share a concern that I have about AMS2. It does not seem to be discussed, but when comparing how many player actually play the game, I am very worried this game will get any traction ever. It is no just less than other SIM, it is very very little, particularly as it is new.

I would love to hear what Reiza think of the abysmally small amount of user.

How many use a game does not reflect on how good it is, AMS2 is good, but not having user, hence no money coming in has to be some how worry some for Reiza and by consequence to existing user.

By all the coverage here in RD and all the superlative in this thread, you could be tempted to think that this is the next big thing for SIM racer. Not so much, why is their not more players?

 

[Kenny Paton]

reshaderacer
Right I think by now we all know your views on the game and your constant walls of text repeating yourself on AMS2 threads is becoming a distraction, so time to take a step back.

 

[chrisbrown]

1. It is not clear to me, and many other, that AMS2 is a flop.
2. I purchase AMS2 with the intention to enjoy it, yes, I am enjoying some of it, like the VR is very good, I wished that I could enjoy the driving and the AI as well, but at this stage, beside a few combo, I have limited interest in using my copy of AMS2.
3. The purpose of this thread and those post is to put in light an apparent disconnect between some extatic comments and the lack of people actually using their copy of the game.

Maybe Reiza is not developing it in an optimal way, that would help us enjoy it more, play it more, hence why taking into account the elephant in the room, might help them and us making AMS2 a better SIM experience. As opposed to praising it as a “best ever” SIM which it is definitely not.

You are new around here, it might help you get a better experience in RD, if you take the time to read the thread instead of just snapping at the last post without consideration for the whole conversation that I started 17 pages back, more than a year ago.

... 17 pages back, more than a year ago

and still you insist on posting the bad statistics of the game on a public forum, it's the worst publicity, you are not helping developers, quite the opposite.

 

[steelreserv]

The Reiza forums is a place where anyone who has a thought about how the game could improve can interact with actual people who are involved in the process and on many occasions the changes can find themselves in the very next update. This upcoming update will be a prime example (re throttle mapping) What more could anyone want?
Unfortunately, there is rolling reoccurrance of commenters that aren’t interested in game development at all and are more interested in ramming their subjective opinion down everyone’s throats.
Whats worse is that there are some very patient, very smart people there that spend their time trying to pull anything of value from the criticism of the game in an attempt to identify and isolate a design parameters and they get accused of defending the game and get called fanboys. When the community pushes back, then we get accused of being an echo chamber.
Whats telling here is that anyone with a negative opinion here, even the likes of reshade and supemax get upvotes by the same people (cote and andrew) and all I can tell is this is to perpetuate negativity no matter what.

There is indeed something to a steam chart analysis, if you want to figure out what there is or is not going on in the sim that could cause the numbers. I posted a long post in the beta forum about how I believe a multi player rating system could lead to player engagement (and increase the steam numbers). Reiza is running MP beta tests twice a week now. Giving me hope of some goods things in the way.

On the other hand, this thread has the tone of confirmation bias weaved into it. “I dont like ams2 and see…the steam charts show other people don’t, so Im right and you’re wrong”.

I disagree with that narrative.

 

[steelreserv]

I'm onboard with AMS2 1000% not because its perfect in every way, but because of its unrealized potential. With the proper custom FFB, the right setup and learning some different driving techniques & some practice, it comes alive.

The cars are dynamic, they all feel different. Many of the them teach you a skill or have an exaugurated feel to them so that with some time and practice, you can be more in tune with that feel and recognize it in other cars. You feel the rubber all the way up through the suspension. And the cars evolve!! as the races progress. Lighter fuel loads, tires with wear or overheating, overheating brakes (or too cool).

There's tire management and knowing how to recognize trouble with overheating tires and changing your driving style (or setup for a later race) goes a long way. The setup work isn't pointless or marginal, or just for flashy hot laps. Much of my setup work is designed around tire wear and temp balance for longevity and consistency. Real changes can be made (some absolutely required) which speaks loads about the physics. Real life setup principles are what I use and the telemetry reflects it.

The track dynamics are fantastic. There's a rubbered line and as a race progresses, the track evolves, knowing this can and should dictate how you approach corners. Not to mention the weather, wet and dry lines, puddles that build and dissipate.

All of the concerns listed on threads like this are being actively addressed. Reiza releases monster updates every month and problems or suggestions can be posted on the forum one day, and addressed in the very next update. Its a small team yes, but they aren't devoted to corporate financial overlords. Renato actually schedules MP races for beta testers and listens to them too.

Sure the are certain car parameters that need to be tweaked or reworked. Universal or on a per car basis. There are some issues with the lsds and some of the soft tires have perhaps too much grip until they fall off. And many many other items. I understand that can be frustrating to people who are used to things being a certain way. but there is too much great stuff going on to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

And please, just stop using he word "sim-cade' with regards to AMS2. It holds not truth whatsoever. "Sim-cades" program cars specifically for end user experience, there doesn't need to be any physics behind it whatsoever, just a simple setup page that influense that end experience. ASM2 develops each cars' driving experience through a pretty intensive and universal physical parameter system and the cars feel the way they do through that. Hell or high water. If there is a problem with a parameter, there may be a problem with how the car feels. That makes a HUGE difference.

 

[steelreserv]

When an argument relies on half-truths and subjective opinion , fine.

Say it 1000 times and its propaganda to suit an agenda.

 

[BlaKArg]

When an argument relies on half-truths and subjective opinion , fine.

Say it 1000 times and its propaganda to suit an agenda.

That guy's post was, wow. Might have finally driven me off RD forums for good.

 

[Gevatter]

That guy's post was, wow. Might have finally driven me off RD forums for good.

Nah, don't. As I said before, he did turn from liking AMS2 to hating on it the day he was banned from the Reiza forums for spamming and stalking. He's just salty. Just look in this very thread, from page eight or something onward.

 

[Gevatter]

What you need to appreciate about a company-forum like Reiza's or any company's (and why I do not go on them) is that its their forum and unless you are a shill and 100% behind their title or defend it, they simply will ban you.

@Kenny Paton I'd like to despell that myth, then I'll shut up about this as well, promise.

Never have I ever seen anybody get banned for ciritcism in any of the simracing forums I visit. I did however see people getting banned for being blatantly disrespectful, for derailing or spamming threads all the time, for droning on about their issues in any thread possible and for constantly harrassing and flaming other members.

There currently is a lot of criticism and complaining about the latest update going on in the Reiza forums, from listing bugs to discussing the new content to simply complaining about the new car being unrealistic or bad to drive. Much more negative posts than positive. But nobody gets banned. I think you're the first one ever to get banned by Reiza, and I'm not saying that to poke fun. Even on the Kunos forums there have only been a handful of bans in my time, and they are much much stricter there.

What I do appreciate however is that anytime somebody gets banned from one of those company forums, without fail they cast themselves as martyrs that were banished out to the wastelands for stating an uncomfortable truth to the devs. If that was true half of every forum would get banned every time there is an update to a game.

But I am not a super fan of this title. I play AMS2 rarely, perhaps once per month, and at all other times of mentioning it I mentioned it in light of raceroom and Assetto Corsa.

And that's a completely normal thing. Everybody has their favs and their dislikes. But you don't hold the truth to the matter, you only hold you personal opinion, and it's the same every time you post. We know by now.

Let people like AMS2 if they like it, it won't hurt you if they do. You don't see me in the ACC forums trying to show people the light by incessantly complaining that GT3 cars are boring, do you?

This is the exact behaviour that got you banned in the Reiza forums. Endless rambling walls of text.

 

[Squale972]

Everyone,
I just want to present my apologies for what I wrote about AMS2.
I was totally wrong because my wheels and pedals weren't correctly configured. So throttle and brake were just on or off so no progressive values.
And because of that my experience was horrible: it resulted in very strange cars behaviours. It's very strange because i really took time to configure everything the first timer i installed it. I fear that a lot of drivers have the same trouble and just gave up.
Now, just after assigning wheels, pedals and throttle and recalibrating them, i really enjoy everything in this game: awesome graphics, FFB very close de rFactor 2, dynamic weather... Very vivid sensantions.
I really hope more people will join for good leagues and maybe a competitive system in the future.

 

[BertramRaven]

The monthly wank over AMS2's player numbers?

I think he's annoyed AMS2 is getting things right far quicker than ACC and rfactor 2 series. He also has no idea how poor Steam stats are and how they only relate to given localities. Looking at ACC numbers, it seems only one person played it all last month. I'm pretty sure that isn't right.

 

[wolftree]

... 17 pages back, more than a year ago

and still you insist on posting the bad statistics of the game on a public forum, it's the worst publicity, you are not helping developers, quite the opposite.

What did you expect from the guy with an Assetto Corsa avatar who spends their time roaming other games' forums "just asking questions".

 

[Gevatter]

Telling someone they are doing great, when they are not, is, in my view, much more damaging, than letting them know, they are not doing great and maybe, if they want to succeed, should consider a change of strategy.

Nobody is telling Reiza they are doing great and that AMS2 is perfect. We tell them what we enjoy in the current state of AMS2, and we tell them what we don't like, what doesn't work, what we think is wrong and what we want in the future. Not here of course, because the only thing the AMS2 forums on RD are good for is complaining about the game it seems. That and the monthly sticky update on player count. You on the other hand seem weirdly obsessed with badmouthing AMS2 every chance you get.

How, is just stating a verifiable fact, so upsetting to some people? Is it a sign of the time we are now all living in?

How is it you guys, whenever you get backlash for your constant useless complaining about a sim you hardly play, are only ever "stating facts" or "providing feedback" or "providing constructive critizism"? Oh, you're so innocent. You're obviously not posting player number to inform anyone, your're gloating. Where does your seemingly unending disdain for the game and/or dev team come from? Why do you post AMS2 player numbers with such glee, such joy about their failure according to you?

 

[steelreserv]

Or you can just start playing AMS2, may be numbers go up.

Its up by one most nights 12-3am est.
Tonight I'll be testing the ride height sensitivity of the F309 in traffic at Vello Citta. I discovered that a high rake low front ride height build, although superior solo, has rear downforce issues when following other cars. Especially when going over track undulations. I've identified the problem as an air flow issue under that car, that starves the diffuser either due to lack of air flow, or the diffuser angle itself. I have to find the correct balance of rear springs softness, damper stiffness, bump stop length and ride height. Stiff enough to maintain a stable aero platform and soft enough to handle track undulations.
You know, simcade, fanboi echo chamber type stuff.

 

[pennywiseguy]

That's nonsense, sitting on the sideline making snide remarks is so easy. You get access to the vast bulk of this website, downloads for no cost, and then use the fact that someone helps support the site as an accusation of bias.
So would you like to produce some evidence of this or was it just an easy target.

Slightly tongue-in-cheek, but I have noticed (not just in this forum) that snide remarks from some users go unpunished if they are premium, whereas non premium members are more likely to be made an example of.

Can't be arsed to find examples, I'm too busy wanking over AC numbers. You know, that game that is so great, I don't play it as I find it dull, poor AI and inconsistent quality (especially from mods - not AC fault).

I better frequent the forums and churn out the same point time and time again.

Andrew, as previously mentioned, I don't rate AMS2 at the moment, so numbers don't surprise me, what annoys me is the likes of you almost getting off on what you see as a failing product.

 

[Kenny Paton]

Well I think it's time to bring this to a halt, if anyone wants to bang on about free speech then can I remind them that this is the 387th post in a thread that's been running for over a year.

 

[pennywiseguy]

No concern. Try looking at player numbers of ACC in early access. Are you seriously comparing 2 well established games, to one in Early Access that is also split across two forms of beta? Come back in a few months time with the same question.

 

[OurManInTangier]

I’d agree with the comment above.

This is the only game I’ve ever bought in Beta. I doubt I’m different from the vast majority of gamers who have the mindset of “let someone else do the ‘testing’ and I’ll pick up the full product later when it’s ready.”

 

[Avo77]

Some better perspective...

AMS2 is too expensive for its main customer base (Latin America) that is still using AMS1 (see where the peaks are) and too obscure for the rest of the world.

Probably real numbers are higher than this due to the Beta version (they should absolutely close it asap) but I won't expect much in terms of absolute values.

Hopefully more mainstream content will help in the near future but, unless they strongly advertise and support with facts how much better is their simulation respect to Pcars2 and the upcoming Pcars3, why someone should chose it respect to the SMS siblings that are cheaper and immensely more interesting content wise?

 

[David Wright]

Got to agree with Avo77. While I think you raise a fair point, comparing AMS2 with the big boys - AC, PC2 and ACC is not really fair IMO. I know some hyped AMS2 as the next big thing but for the moment at least, AMS2 is very much like AMS1 content wise so for me AMS1 has to be the obvious reference point. If Reiza can double their AMS1 market share you would think this would be quite an achievement. They haven't done that so far and that is a bit worrying though the numbers playing beta rather than EA is unknown. Its hard to judge the effect of EA. I'm not sure comparisons with ACC are valid as ACC in EA was far less complete than AMS2. So it will be interesting to see how v1.0 goes in terms of sales and user numbers. But releasing v1.0 in the middle of a Steam Sale isn't ideal.