The Elephant in the room

Cote Dazur

SIM Addict
Original poster
May 21, 2013
2,108
2,351
I want to share a concern that I have about AMS2. It does not seem to be discussed, but when comparing how many player actually play the game, I am very worried this game will get any traction ever. It is no just less than other SIM, it is very very little, particularly as it is new.

I would love to hear what Reiza think of the abysmally small amount of user.

Screenshot (7).jpg


How many use a game does not reflect on how good it is, AMS2 is good, but not having user, hence no money coming in has to be some how worry some for Reiza and by consequence to existing user.

By all the coverage here in RD and all the superlative in this thread, you could be tempted to think that this is the next big thing for SIM racer. Not so much, why is their not more players?
 

pennywiseguy

100RPM
Jun 8, 2008
132
140
No concern. Try looking at player numbers of ACC in early access. Are you seriously comparing 2 well established games, to one in Early Access that is also split across two forms of beta? Come back in a few months time with the same question.
 
Feb 15, 2019
50
31
47
I’d agree with the comment above.

This is the only game I’ve ever bought in Beta. I doubt I’m different from the vast majority of gamers who have the mindset of “let someone else do the ‘testing’ and I’ll pick up the full product later when it’s ready.”
 

Avo77

250RPM
Dec 5, 2013
324
368
43
1593116121954.png


Some better perspective...

AMS2 is too expensive for its main customer base (Latin America) that is still using AMS1 (see where the peaks are) and too obscure for the rest of the world.

Probably real numbers are higher than this due to the Beta version (they should absolutely close it asap) but I won't expect much in terms of absolute values.

Hopefully more mainstream content will help in the near future but, unless they strongly advertise and support with facts how much better is their simulation respect to Pcars2 and the upcoming Pcars3, why someone should chose it respect to the SMS siblings that are cheaper and immensely more interesting content wise?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Louis Wedding

David Wright

1000RPM
Sep 27, 2009
1,257
877
Got to agree with Avo77. While I think you raise a fair point, comparing AMS2 with the big boys - AC, PC2 and ACC is not really fair IMO. I know some hyped AMS2 as the next big thing but for the moment at least, AMS2 is very much like AMS1 content wise so for me AMS1 has to be the obvious reference point. If Reiza can double their AMS1 market share you would think this would be quite an achievement. They haven't done that so far and that is a bit worrying though the numbers playing beta rather than EA is unknown. Its hard to judge the effect of EA. I'm not sure comparisons with ACC are valid as ACC in EA was far less complete than AMS2. So it will be interesting to see how v1.0 goes in terms of sales and user numbers. But releasing v1.0 in the middle of a Steam Sale isn't ideal.
 

Andrew_WOT

5000RPM
May 11, 2014
5,066
2,892
Same problem as with AMS1, very specific content. Game highly praised by many, regularly played by few.
Moving to new engine helped with graphics, but came at some hefty price of worse AI, questionable physics, and FFB.
PCars engine legacy doesn't help either.
 

lawsy

10RPM
Premium
Jan 19, 2020
23
25
38
When is it coming out? It was said mid june - today is already 25th...
My guess is this weekend. I'd rather have 1.0 at the end of the month instead of the middle if it means there's more content and polished. If that means it runs even later than June so be it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: passenger

pavig

25RPM
Premium
Aug 24, 2017
38
51
51
I came to AMS from downloading their Copa Petrobas title and realizing it was a solid sim, then picking up Stock Car, then Automobilista. Each title has improved significantly on the previous, offered wider appeal and greater refinement. By the time AMS1 was reaching end of life it had gathered a lot of fans in the sim community. AMS2 is just starting out but already it is looking like a great platform and will likely also grow the community. Sim racers realized that a solid driving model and wide selection of racing styles made for a great meat'n'potatoes sim.

As a slightly niche sim AMS2 will probably never have the kind of market penetration of the big sims, but it makes a great second sim to boot up for a bit of variety. It pairs really well with mainstream stuff like ACC or any of the narrower focused codies titles. As long as they maintain their title of "a great alternative sim" I think they'll do well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GJDriessen

Jan Mikuž

1000RPM
Nov 21, 2013
1,057
174
40
Agreed. Meant to start a similar thread myself. As an "onliner" I'm uninterested in AI gameplay, therefore in order for this sim to be a viable option for me, it needs to provide at least a couple of clean, populated servers to have a race or two in the evening. AMS1 always frustrated me, because it was never able to fulfill this minor requirement.

Now, with the shift to a modern gfx engine I expected a substantial boost in player numbers immediately and therefore finally a worthwhile online multiplayer environment. Yet, the numbers so far are a bit disheartening and suggest AMS2 has failed to excite the sim community outside of the loyal core base so far.

MP functionality, structure, dedi and the sim overall is still very much WIP, though, so probably best to wait at least a couple more months before judging the potential of AMS2 (MP) popularity.
Moderately optimistic. Let's see how the launch goes. :thumbsup:
 

Goffik

RMG Motorsports
Staff
Premium
Sep 28, 2009
12,388
9,160
Comparing a game that is still in EA to titles that are already mainstream is no comparison at all. Most of the people who will eventually buy and play AMS 2 will be holding off for the very reason that it's still EA.

And as others have said, it's content makes it a somewhat niche game in an already niche market. This situation may change somewhat over time since they have plans for more mainstream content in the future.

Other than that, I really don't know why people express concern about stuff like this after looking at a graph. It's meaningless. R3E apparently has far less active users that other sims, yet there are quality leagues using it all over the place, our club here is doing fine, and the game continues to be improved and added to. AMS 1 never really compared to the "big boys" in terms of raw numbers either, yet it was clearly a financial success since we have a sequel right here.

And that's the point here. Financial success. It doesn't matter if it reaches the heights of mainstream sims, it doesn't matter if it doesn't become the most-played sim on Steam. As long as it is paying the wages of the devs, doing what it does as well as it can, and is being enjoyed by those who play it, it's a success. End of.

And for those talking about online racing, AMS 1 had a perfectly active online scene with it's "small" player base so I really don't think that's much of a concern at all.
 

pennywiseguy

100RPM
Jun 8, 2008
132
140
Well, purchased it, tried it and for the first time ever, I have asked for a refund. I am surprised, as I even enjoy driving some content using Christiaan pure FFB in PCars2.
This title is different from PCars2 but the SMS engine DNA is all over it, which is not a bad thing in itself, but is a fact. It is early access alright, very early.
Every one should try it with an open mind and reach his own conclusion. I already have plenty of nice simulation experience in my library and this title, in the state it is, does not bring me anything I care for.
The big question was will Reiza pull a rabbit out of the bag? for me the answer is no, they even made it worst.
If you enjoy it, good for you, I am glad for those who have found a new title to enjoy.
I was looking forward to some new content, but I guess I will have to enjoy them on a different title.
This is my review, I hope it will help some fellow SIM enthusiast in making the right decision for them self.

By way, how come you are playing it again after your initial over zealous reaction? Surely if people are like you, it answers your strange new thread above.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cote Dazur

SIM Addict
Original poster
May 21, 2013
2,108
2,351
Comparing a game that is still in EA to titles that are already mainstream is no comparison at all
As long as it is paying the wages of the devs
The other title are not there for direct comparison, but as a perspective on what other SIM player numbers look like in our niche market. Between 500 and a thousand would be some what average but around 100 is not good even with the most rosy glasses.

Yes, as long as a low number of player is all that Reiza is expecting from their work and that their is enough player to "pay the wages" then all is good.

From a personal perspective, all that really matter is that I enjoy this title, also agreed, but the very low active player, even for this early state, is still a bit concerning as to what the future and expected additional content will bring at the very least.

To me it is worth noting and discussing, hoping for the best outcome, as I wish to keep enjoying this new title that I just added to my library.
 
Last edited:

General_Failure

OLD SKOOL RULES
Mar 9, 2016
197
404
We'll see what the future holds, this is a hard niche and we already have very different sims for all needs. I think the first and the biggest problem is AMS 1, a top quality, super cheap and additionally moddable sim. AMS 2 is a logical step forward in the evolution of the company, but the fact stays: hardcode community always would prefer a moddable sim. So far there has been no migration from the previous title.
 
Last edited:

ratrunner

1RPM
Oct 8, 2011
9
7
The numbers don't show people using the BETA branch either. I have only used the main branch for about 1 hour, but have 29 hours in the BETA
 

Leonardo Chaves

1000RPM
Oct 11, 2010
1,191
431
38
View attachment 384151

Some better perspective...

AMS2 is too expensive for its main customer base (Latin America) that is still using AMS1 (see where the peaks are) and too obscure for the rest of the world.

Probably real numbers are higher than this due to the Beta version (they should absolutely close it asap) but I won't expect much in terms of absolute values.

Hopefully more mainstream content will help in the near future but, unless they strongly advertise and support with facts how much better is their simulation respect to Pcars2 and the upcoming Pcars3, why someone should chose it respect to the SMS siblings that are cheaper and immensely more interesting content wise?
It isn't, at least in beta 1 it wasn't, it was 89,00 BRZ R$, that's half than most AAA games in Steam Br. They go for 200+ these days(not counting sales), I'd say most people here, specially those that can afford a wheel can pay that.

Still i'm worried, simracing is niche and AMS is niche within a niche, Reiza doesn't have anywhere near the marketing budget of the big guys, it's entirely mouth to mouth.
Maybe they can get some Brazilian youtubers or the Stock Car series themselves to push the title a bit... Don't know how it can happen internationally.

Can they afford to keep up their promises? I don't know, i hope so because i enjoy AMS 2 handling a lot.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Cote Dazur

Andy Ainsworth

75RPM
Premium
Dec 8, 2013
86
37
I share your worries. I was reticent when it came to buying it.
I know a lot of folk won't agree with me but project cars 1 &2 have left a bitter taste in my mouth, and for a lot of people, it'll be hard to disassociate AMS2 from the Project cars franchise.

I sincerely hope they give it a go. The ffb and physics leagues ahead of PC.

Personally i'm thoroughly enjoying AMS2, but 11 online players on a Sunday afternoon does not bode well.
 

Kurupt CDN

DirtT Tuned Motorsports
Premium
Jul 18, 2012
2,976
2,421
I had my worries, but after giving it a test it was way too good to pass up and have been really enjoying it.

The low numbers really dont surprise me at this point as it's still in EA, nor do I think it's due to the Madness engine.
It's really no different than the low numbers in AMS which used the great rfactor engine and put it on steroids.
Pretty much every racing sim I've played in the past 10 yrs has struggled with player counts after launch, hell it took Raceroom and RF2 nearly 7 yrs to get a peak player counts of over a 1000 in a month.

It's simply a small budget for advertising and the vast majority of users can't look outside the box when it comes to the content and want mainstream stuff...GT3, F1, spa, Monza and nurburg etc.

Hopefully some of the DLC packs will draw more attention, but the reality is...sim racing is niche market and a extremely small community in general. Iracing is currently the largest sim racing title with a 100,000+ members yet it still struggles at times to have official races.

The only way to help small dev teams like Reiza is to promote there work by word of mouth, upload races, in-game features, live stream to social media and hope it catches on.