Team Orders in F1 - Good, Bad or Just Plain Ugly?

[gamer19]

Love em when it's your team, hate it when it's another.

You're probably right mate hmm...
Ok, let's put your theory to the test, first one:

For me it's pretty simple: I accept team orders between teammates (like "he's faster than you, let him pass"), but I don't accept when you use one of them against another team, like Valtteri did more than once to block Ferraris.

Yeah... Ferrari fan, definitely.
Seems like there's nothing wrong with your theory, it's working perfectly !

 

[Ghepa888]

they will be ugly, but they are right, it is useless to forbid them or to make polemics

 

[sarihiari]

I didn't like it, but there's no denying it was objectively the correct thing for Mercedes to do in order to maximize their chances in both Championships.

Mercedes allowed Bottas running in clear air to get less blistering while Vettle following Hamilton were already showing blistering, and then switched and allowed Hamilton to run in clear air while Bottas (now with better tires) was keeping Vettle well in 3rd place. Its sort of load balancing of tire wear. Brilliant.

Seems clear Lewis didn't want to win like that, but going into Suzuka with a 50pt lead is pretty handy.

Not to mention 53 points in constructors as well.

I hope they make it up to Bottas at some point.

 

[Jim1986]

I think, when a driver can win the particular race, teamorders should be ilegal. Its hard enough to be forced to give up a position, but a leading position is just cruel.

 

[Stefan Mizzi]

For me, they just killed the race fullstop. Took away the little excitement left in the race for some real racing...

Pfff, gone the days of Senna and Prost......

 

[Slowdive]

I don´t like them but, F1 is a team based sport, it´s not an individualistic sport, teams has 2 cars for making more points, not for having 2 main drivers.

Huh? The team would've scored the same number of points if Bottas had won. This was just a pure personal slam at Bottas. He will not be allowed to win as long as Hamilton is around. Someone should have asked Toto how many seconds ahead would Bottas need to be before he isn't asked to throw the race.

 

[Slowdive]

What would happen if Hamilton gets in a wreck next race and can't race the rest of the season? Could you imagine how stupid Toto would look?

 

[gamer19]

For me, they just killed the race fullstop. Took away the little excitement left in the race for some real racing...
Pfff, gone the days of Senna and Prost......

Back in those days only "team (lol) orders" were - just try not to kill your team mate.
Although... not sure Senna was follow that one too.
Was it in ...Portugal, their first major incident when Senna pushed Prost into the wall. Prost later admit he was scared to death.

What would happen if Hamilton gets in a wreck next race and can't race the rest of the season? Could you imagine how stupid Toto would look?

Well, In your scenario it would be exactly the same for Lewis if he first or second in Russia, isn't it ? In that SF scenario... Toto would "look stupid" either way.

 

[LeSunTzu]

You should listen to Prost's interview in the F1 official channel. He explains Senna and him had a few "rules of engagement" and that the mess started when they did not respect them (each of them blaming the other for starting it, of course).

Anyway it would be the same if Hamilton and Vettel were team mates. It would hardly be possible to ask one of them to let the other pass. Bottas is a good driver, but he is nowhere near a title.

What is a real pity in the last GP is that Hamilton has already a large margin. In addition Vettel was not really threatening. So the swap looked very unnecessary. The odds that Hamilton gets a double DNF in 5 races are marginal. That is what made the whole thing ugly.

 

[shimon.ifraimov]

For me, they just killed the race fullstop. Took away the little excitement left in the race for some real racing...

Pfff, gone the days of Senna and Prost......

thats why i miss rosberg, he would never take crap like that.

 

[dumdidum]

I think Teamorders with teams of just 2 cars in a 20+ car field are okay, but if you look at DTM for example, where a third of the field (and soon half of the field) is driving for one car, that's really bad.

 

[Turk]

The problem I have with this move is it seemed completely unnecessary. Hamilton is beating Seb, even when Seb has the better car Hamilton can win the race (sometimes thanks to Bottas). Bottas could have really used the points and Hamilton didn't need them that badly.

Even if Hamilton finished in second he would have gained points over Seb. Mercedes seem to be completely ignoring Bottas championship, and sacrificing Bottas when there's no need to sacrifice him. This year has been a tour de force for Hamilton, he's dominated and this kind of stuff just makes the whole team look either weak and scared, or just dispassionate.

Mercedes are perfectly entitled to do this, but I'd say they've pissed off a lot of their own fans never mind the general fans. I don't think they can keep throwing Bottas under the bus like that, I don't think they'll find another driver that's as much of a team player and willing to sacrifice themselves to protect Hamilton.

 

[Big_Mama]

Team orders have been around for as long as F1 has existed. Gilles Villeneuve famously never forgave Pironi for disrespecting team orders at the San Marino GP in 1982. I don’t like them much, but I prefer when it is very clear, like today, rather then have the team come up with some b.s. excuse like a « faulty » gearbox or a « bad » set of tyres.

Yes, maybe there were team orders, but in the end it was much more up to the driver to decide if they would comply. And I think there are different reasons for that, for example good drivers were not that easy to replace. But much more important is the lack of corporate identity that rules the sport today. There is much more pressure on the drivers to obey the team rules. And to be honest all this corporate identity bullshit is the main reason why I don't like modern F1 anymore. Just read or listen to some old stories from the likes of Berger, Alesi , Piquet... and I don't mean racing stories, but the off track stories. Completely unthinkable stuff for today's times. Corporate identity is the modern form of psychological submission, and it takes every human aspects from everything where it has power. In my opinion the only way to get good (F1-like) racing again is to either restrain the power of big companies in F1, which will of course never happen, or leave F1 be whatever it wants to be and start from scratch with a new format, with small private teams, and somehow restrain the amount of money involved in it.

 

[apex11]

People need to understand when they are romantasising the roles of the drivers that really it is simply s team sport about engineers and blokes at the factory and blokes on lap tops.... Dull yes, but the least important parts are the people driving them. Only the fans of drivers give a crap about them. Pretty much 90 percent of the grid could reasonably win in s s merc or Ferrari.

 

[apex11]

It's like when Lewis busts out s great pole lap, the people with any brains know Merc just turned up his engine. Bottas the most underwhelming driver in this era can win in the Merc and that tells you all you need to know.... I'd put at least 8 current driver's in f1 above bottas let alone f1 drivers cast aside recently... It's a team sport about the engineers.... They are the ones who make the cars able to corner so fast not the drivers...

 

[throughalens83]

You're probably right mate hmm...
Ok, let's put your theory to the test, first one:

Yeah... Ferrari fan, definitely.
Seems like there's nothing wrong with your theory, it's working perfectly !

I'm a Ferrari supporter ("fan" it's a pretty stupid word). And I, believe me or not, would think that even if Mercedes was doing their team orders against Red Bull, or Ferrari against Mercedes.

 

[gamer19]

thats why i miss rosberg, he would never take crap like that.

Maybe it's not would someone "take crap" or not. Maybe they simply signed two very different contracts. Ever think about that ?

I'm a Ferrari supporter ("fan" it's a pretty stupid word). And I, believe me or not, would think that even if Mercedes was doing their team orders against Red Bull, or Ferrari against Mercedes.

Ok mate, I believe you.
You have one of those... honest faces.

 

[Turk]

It's like when Lewis busts out s great pole lap, the people with any brains know Merc just turned up his engine. Bottas the most underwhelming driver in this era can win in the Merc and that tells you all you need to know.... I'd put at least 8 current driver's in f1 above bottas let alone f1 drivers cast aside recently... It's a team sport about the engineers.... They are the ones who make the cars able to corner so fast not the drivers...

The way F1 is going it's becoming a stretch to call it a sport. It's an advertising platform for major manufacturers, they don't have a level playing field, they don't employee the best drivers (just the richest), money can win races, and if you're not on the right contract you can't win races. As with all sport, money is the corrupting influence.

I don't think it's fair to say that all Hamlitons wins are just the result of Mercedes turning up the engine. I think he's most certainly one of the best drivers the sports seen to date. I also don't think Bottas is underwhelming, he had a lacklustre start with Mercedes but I think he's doing pretty well now, he's not only racing his own race but supporting Lewis when needed.

 

[delpinsky]

Team orders? It's a joke.
The worst thing in the Motorsport. Let the drivers do their race!

Is it Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, I don't care, but asking your driver to let your teammate to pass like you ask a dog to sit down, I find it pathetic.

I feel for Bottas. he deserved to win the race if he had the pace to do it.

 

[michelforest]

Nice speech.
Sigh.... Nico Rosberg....
Am I the only one who miss this dude ?
Feel like he's been retired a decade ago.
He was racing with Hamilton so very often.
And they both ended with all car parts. Mostly.

Yes, that was a great fight. However, I doubt Toto and Niki were always happy with that situation. Had Rosberg stayed in F1, I'm pretty sure he or Lewis would have left for another team eventually.