Team Orders in F1 - Good, Bad or Just Plain Ugly?

[Zoltan76]

Teamorder kills the sport... yeah, but F1 is not sport anymore for a while. It is business. Pure business. Sadly. With Liberty Media it just got worse. I loved F1 in the late 80's as a child and in the 90's too. I think F1 was business back in those days either, but still there was some soul in that. Today all the human/humanity factor is f***ed.

 

[farjam]

They had to at Monza but they did not. Probably for PR reasons especially at Monza,
The problem is not the order (no brainer) but all the **** that was said in the past about Ferrari just to do the same later.

That was not because of PR
at monza they didn't do it because the first corners of monza at the race start is not a good place for team order and the risk is too much when the cars are still close to each other, if seb didn't screw himself at those first corners and not being so much behind kimi after that , they would definitely do it in a few laps later.
for me it's funny that "the ferrari not doing it at the start of the race" for some means that ferrari definitely had no plan for team order, and they keep saying "team order in ferrari?how about monza that ferrari didn't use team order?"
the thing is all the teams are hypocrites , but by not accepting this fact their fans are more hypocrites

 

[BP]

Why are there so many responses along the lines of "Well Ferrari does it so...."? Come on guys, that's like the childish "Well, he started it!" response.

So basically...we have to wait until a team actually wins the WDC and WCC without any team orders (in all forms: contractual, codewords or blatant orders), beating all other teams that use team orders before we have a universal outcry that racing without team orders are the more sportsmanlike way to go about it, championship standings and past examples of team orders be damned? Regardless of who does it, who did it in the past, and what the standings are, team orders suck...period.

My guess is in the future they'll flash a brief symbol on the wheel screen (or maybe drivers will have HUDs displayed on their helmets!) to indicate team orders, and when that's outlawed, they'll have a little needle that sticks drivers in the leg when they're not following established team orders. Not to mention, as a Hamilton fan, I can't in good conscience count this as one of his victories...but that's just me, so who cares. When does it end?

 

[snyperal]

Lewis should've handed the place back. He would be the king and ultimate team player. Hell Valteiri would probably shunt Seb off if Lewis asked him too in that scenario. As it stands everyone is hurt.

Not cool.

 

[whip]

they need to make the cars less dependant on aerodynamics and more dependant on mechanical grip, that will make racing better

 

[Michel Forest]

Team orders have been around for as long as F1 has existed. Gilles Villeneuve famously never forgave Pironi for disrespecting team orders at the San Marino GP in 1982. I don’t like them much, but I prefer when it is very clear, like today, rather then have the team come up with some b.s. excuse like a « faulty » gearbox or a « bad » set of tyres.

Obviously, it is not the perfect situation and Hamilton’s behavior after the race clearly showed that he was embarrassed by the whole thing. But in the end, there’s just too much at stake to risk losing a championship. I thought Paul di Resta explained it very well after the race.

 

[Farrow_21]

It's whatever team orders have been a thing for a long time so i don't think what they did was crazy. However I really don't think they were necessary in this race. Lewis would have still left way ahead in points even with a P2 or even P3 for that matter. Bottas wasn't making any mistakes in the lead & should of been allowed to win His race. Idk just really feel bad for him they better never say anything about Bottas needing to win races again when talking about his worthiness in the team.

 

[Wojtek Baran]

Team Orders are always fishy, but I think every team, every top team I mean has someting like a carte blanche at the begining of the season for first 5 or 6 races. If drivers fight, then teams let them fight, but if one of them gets a clear advantage and has a vital chance of winning the title, team should put their money on that driver and help him (or her) in everyway they can, even when it comes to "managing" grid order in the race.

 

[Stan Marlow]

That was not because of PR
at monza they didn't do it because the first corners of monza at the race start is not a good place for team order and the risk is too much when the cars are still close to each other, if seb didn't screw himself at those first corners and not being so much behind kimi after that , they would definitely do it in a few laps later.
for me it's funny that "the ferrari not doing it at the start of the race" for some means that ferrari definitely had no plan for team order, and they keep saying "team order in ferrari?how about monza that ferrari didn't use team order?"
the thing is all the teams are hypocrites , but by not accepting this fact their fans are more hypocrites

you assume here
Ferrari would do the same, I think that they are stupid for not doing it in Monza at the start. They could do it hundred ways at the start after the first chicane like Merc did it today at the start with blocking - one at the side the other in front slowing.
Again issue here is acting like they are above such indecent tactics and doing the same the next day.

 

[Tberg]

Max would have drove the p1 home. Kimi would have drove the p1 home. Magnussen would have drove the p1 home. Back in the day, any champion, Senna, Michael, even Lauda, they'd all would had said "screw you!" to that teamorder.
But hey, Valtteri gets paid for following orders.

One big yawn today...

 

[Chris Wyatt]

Max would have drove the p1 home. Kimi would have drove the p1 home. Magnussen would have drove the p1 home. Back in the day, any champion, Senna, Michael, even Lauda, they'd all would had said "screw you!" to that teamorder.
But hey, Valtteri gets paid for following orders.

One big yawn today...

Depends on the team manager, not sure any driver would disobey Ross Brawn and I think Toto command's a similar level of respect these days.

 

[Magnar Haarstadsveen]

It is a easy way to get rid of teamorders in F1 and that is remove the drivers championship and just have the team championship.
That is what F1 is about from the start.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

Kimi would have drove the p1 home.

Obviously not ... see German GP

 

[Patrick Wuyts]

from this day on if i see a merc in my mirror on the highway i will wave him to pass me just shamefull.

 

[Tberg]

Obviously not ... see German GP

I was refering today. And Bottas had the pace to win today, Kimi did not at Hockenheim.

 

[gamer19]

Lewis should've handed the place back. He would be the king and ultimate team player. Hell Valteiri would probably shunt Seb off if Lewis asked him too in that scenario. As it stands everyone is hurt.
Not cool.

He said he didn't want or ask for swap at all:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hamilton-never-wanted-russian-gp-team-orders/3186572/
But I agree with you, he could/should have done it. Maybe all by himself or telling the team that he'll do it anyway. Be a gentleman and real team player, WC will come anyway... seems to me.

 

[Patrick Wuyts]

Team orders have been around for as long as F1 has existed. Gilles Villeneuve famously never forgave Pironi for disrespecting team orders at the San Marino GP in 1982. I don’t like them much, but I prefer when it is very clear, like today, rather then have the team come up with some b.s. excuse like a « faulty » gearbox or a « bad » set of tyres.

Obviously, it is not the perfect situation and Hamilton’s behavior after the race clearly showed that he was embarrassed by the whole thing. But in the end, there’s just too much at stake to risk losing a championship. I thought Paul di Resta explained it very well after the race.

really: so its all about the money like everthing else. why race at all, just stay home and fill in the results before the race, its called racing for a reason. take out the comms and let drivers just race ffs

 

[Richard Dastardly]

really: so its all about the money like everthing else. why race at all, just stay home and fill in the results before the race, its called racing for a reason. take out the comms and let drivers just race ffs

"Remove the comms" - teams would just go back to flags & pitboard messages. In the past the teams lead driver could call a teammate into the pits and *take their car over* - in fact there's been times when they've called a *customer* car in and taken that over. You think team orders are bad now?

Money? think racing cars grow on trees?

 

[Patrick Wuyts]

then this is no longer a sport buddy been watching this since 1966 this is just plain booooooooooooooooooooring

 

[paracletus]

Very annoyed to see this today.
Do remember that it is certainly not anything nothing new in F1 though; Coulthard did this 3 times for Hakkinen for example.
It's just disappointing that it has effectively killed the DC fight which has been quite intriguing this year up to this point.