SIMUCUBE Direct Drive Wheel With Electronics Integrated Into The Motor

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I'm curious about the extra processing power on their most expensive model. Has processing power been a bottleneck in the past? I have no idea. Unfortunately when you are operating from a point of ignorance, it's hard to tell if this extra processing power is for marketing differentiation or has a real impact.

In support blogs have they ever made comments around running out of bandwidth or needing more processing power to implement something?

Creating an exclusive feature list is a marketing exercise to be sure, but what's there for show and what really matters?

To be fair this is a hard situation because when you are selling something new, you also get the added burden of explaining why this something new matters. It may be a resource for future developments that are underway. If so maybe they could explain what they will be doing with it over time.

It has occurred to me that there may be limitations within the SimuCube1 architecture that makes it impossible to develop certain filters or features as requested by users. For example, in the iRacing forums, members have requested hardware-driver features to enhance the game-ffb or integrate the irFFB 3rd-party program to improve detail and tuning options.

I've seen some cases where game-ffb did not seem to provide the same results as reported with other wheels and I have to wonder if something is missing or lost to the SimuCube1 design. There were also discoveries that came later in SC1 firmware development related to Direct-Input effects so perhaps there is some correlation between these things but, it's pure speculation on my part.

There was also consideration for cooperation to have SimuCube support added to SimCommander to provide it's suite of settings and telemetry-based options but, was later abandoned. Perhaps it then became apparent to the developers that some changes would be needed in order to further advance the platform while also improving ROI in the long term.
 
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  • Deleted member 197115

Same sales pitch links from the page before.
Really makes me look more seriously at Podium, even that SC2 seems like more solidly engineered. Looks like Fanatec will be more consumer friendly, also they showed some hints of telemetry FFB support.
SC1 vs SC2 thread on GD forum is one wrecked train.
Afraid I'd need to sit on my Argon for a bit longer.
 
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WOW! My BS detectors went on high alert when I heard audiophile terms.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard the completely vague, "a veil was lifted" comment in audio circles. There is nothing so useless as that comment and it almost always means BS.
 
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There is a whole field of psycho-acoustics that covers what you can actually hear and sadly we are very emotional and subjective creatures. If you are feeling great or just exercised music will sound better. And if you expect something to sound better, your brain tends to reinforce that expectation. When you see a huge amplifier in big chunks of beautiful metal you expect it to sound better.

There have been debates for years about how much interconnects and speaker wire impact sound quality and people will argue until they are blue in the face that a set of thousand dollar interconnects sound better.

In case you are curious a friend of mine, Ethan Winer, an engineer spent over a year designing and creating a device called a null box that allows you compare audio signals traveling through wire by canceling them out so that you can only hear differences between them. Spoiler alert, there is none.

That's a lot to write just to say that at some point differences start to get very small to the point where you can't feel a difference. Given enough power at the wheel, the software driving a system becomes the most critical part. And how a DD system reacts to the information presented by software becomes the critical thing to see.

It might actually make sense to read/graph raw wheel position sensor data from different systems and see what they look like side by side to empirically see what they are doing differently. It might be good to see the control signal along with this to see how close it matched what it was being asked to do.

If we had a known good that reacted really well it might make sense to get a good FFB loop that was representative and to tweak the various driving software out there to see how close they could get the different systems to match that graph.

I would be interesting to see what really differentiates the systems. I suspect the overall power and driving software are the most important given decent sensors. Encoders are another thing I wonder about. How much resolution really matters. Past a certain point software should be able to compensate.
 
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Yeah, human nature is interesting. We all see things in our own unique way, even colors.

Some Sim-Racer's can be on World record pace with no FFB at all while operating completely by visual cues alone. Others may rely more on boosted audio grip-loss cues or, in my case, I need all of the cues I can get - including detailed FFB and even then, I'm a mid-pack finisher at best. :p:D
 
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There is a whole field of psycho-acoustics that covers what you can actually hear and sadly we are very emotional and subjective creatures. If you are feeling great or just exercised music will sound better. And if you expect something to sound better, your brain tends to reinforce that expectation. When you see a huge amplifier in big chunks of beautiful metal you expect it to sound better.

There have been debates for years about how much interconnects and speaker wire impact sound quality and people will argue until they are blue in the face that a set of thousand dollar interconnects sound better.

In case you are curious a friend of mine, Ethan Winer, an engineer spent over a year designing and creating a device called a null box that allows you compare audio signals traveling through wire by canceling them out so that you can only hear differences between them. Spoiler alert, there is none.

That's a lot to write just to say that at some point differences start to get very small to the point where you can't feel a difference. Given enough power at the wheel, the software driving a system becomes the most critical part. And how a DD system reacts to the information presented by software becomes the critical thing to see.

It might actually make sense to read/graph raw wheel position sensor data from different systems and see what they look like side by side to empirically see what they are doing differently. It might be good to see the control signal along with this to see how close it matched what it was being asked to do.

If we had a known good that reacted really well it might make sense to get a good FFB loop that was representative and to tweak the various driving software out there to see how close they could get the different systems to match that graph.

I would be interesting to see what really differentiates the systems. I suspect the overall power and driving software are the most important given decent sensors. Encoders are another thing I wonder about. How much resolution really matters. Past a certain point software should be able to compensate.


Many people test wheel base without looking at FFB meter in game. Rely entirely on their feelings.
so.... :p
 
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Many people test wheel base without looking at FFB meter in game. Rely entirely on their feelings.
so.... :p

Use the Force feedback Luke! Trust your feelings!

The bottom line is that the vast majority of us have never experienced a DD wheel of any kind and whatever we get is going to feel great compared to whatever we have now. As long as we believe we are getting something good, we will probably be happy.
 
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Yes, even the most modest of DD-wheels provides a significant gain in dynamic range over the main-stream hardware. It's difficult to comprehend exactly what that means until you experience it for yourself. :)
 
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It's difficult to comprehend exactly what that means until you experience it for yourself.

This is me right here. I never thought I'd need to go further than the V2.5 CSW but I ended up with an OSW anyway. It's one of the best yet most underrated pieces of equipment I own. It just does its thing, brilliantly and flawlessly, while I spend literal hours troubleshooting the rest of my kit. Once you get used to using it, it's hard to appreciate what it brings until you go back and try another wheel base. Which I have not done.
 
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I can't help but think that what Simucube, Simplicity and Fanatec (and everyone else) needs to do is start to provide showcases open to the public where we can try a direct drive wheel. There are probably enough people who could afford it but only if they could first ensure they think it is worth it to them on how it subjectively feels. It is much cheaper for these companies to not both and focus on influencers and marketing that way but just like VR you have to try it to be convinced (or otherwise). If they run something in a major city near me I would attend and I would try out a direct drive wheel, I might end up buying a direct drive wheel there and then. But right now I am fairly happy with the amount of force the TS-PC racer is putting out at peak and I don't know any better in "fidelity" and road feel.
 
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I can't help but think that what Simucube, Simplicity and Fanatec (and everyone else) needs to do is start to provide showcases open to the public where we can try a direct drive wheel. There are probably enough people who could afford it but only if they could first ensure they think it is worth it to them on how it subjectively feels. It is much cheaper for these companies to not both and focus on influencers and marketing that way but just like VR you have to try it to be convinced (or otherwise). If they run something in a major city near me I would attend and I would try out a direct drive wheel, I might end up buying a direct drive wheel there and then. But right now I am fairly happy with the amount of force the TS-PC racer is putting out at peak and I don't know any better in "fidelity" and road feel.[/QUOTE

I came from a TS-PC and a t300 its night and day different. That's the thing with consumer wheels though. You look at it with amount of force the wheel puts out. Basically how hard it is to turn because of the way they work. With a DD its not like that. You have this huge range to feel forces in and don't need to turn the forces up to feel them so you don't need to try and balance how hard it is to turn compared to how much you feel.Once you try one you will ask yourself why didn't I do this along time ago.:)
 
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How does the simucube 2 mount? The fanatec DD looks like it has the common bolt pattern which should fit my obutto r3v... No idea about simucube

It mounts in the same way as the existing Mige motors so as with those you'll need a mounting bracket that attaches to the front of the motor using 4 M8 bolts.

There are a fair few different brackets out there and most of the motor suppliers will either bundle the bracket in with the motor or otherwise have one for sale separately on their site. I usually look to see if they have a template with measurements. That way you can plan ahead and see if any drilling may be required.

Here is an example from Racewerk, a German based Simucube 2 dealer.
https://racewerk.com/products/simucube-2-mounting-bracket-by-sim-lab

It states the bracket uses the same bottom hole pattern as Fanatec so you'll be good to go if your wheel deck matches up.
 
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The questions in my mind between the Fanatec and Simcube 2 are the following:

-Does the Simcube2's way of reducing mid-corner torque really work? Is it an advantage?
-How many steering wheels are available today with the bluetooth functionality for simcube2
-Will the fanatec provide any advantages in performance over the simcube1?
-Is the size of the box of the Fanatec going to be an issue for some people? (looks massive)
 
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