RD MINI Challenge 2020

Bram Hengeveld · Oct 12, 2020

Next week monday on SGP Official: https://beta.simracing.gp/events/MqdFfDGhxo1vxrAl7NEW1

Good event to train for the real race around the Nordschleife!

Jacob Marshall · Oct 12, 2020

Maybin it is; sorry to cancel tonight, Life stuff.

Neilski · Oct 12, 2020

Goffik said:

Great video!

Btw, I noticed that it showed that weird issue that AC has - you can see it from 0:48 to 0:58 in the video, where the blue car surges forwards periodically relative to the black car. I think this has been described as a bug in the past (timing mismatches?) but I can't remember any details.

Neilski · Oct 12, 2020

PicoBp said:
Somehow I'm way off pace at Okayama... Any baseline setup tips for the car, without spoiling a secret recipe of yours? Sadly, I've never been good at the mechanic stuff.

I have no idea what the pace is going to be, but I've been trying all kinds of crazy stuff with the setup. I am planning to go back to more or less defaults next and compare my times to see if any of it actually helped, because right now I'm not at all sure.
Camber/toe/dampers/springs/height/... clueless. Really low (or was it even slightly positive?) rear camber made it a bit too tail-happy but just about everything else seems to feel a little different but then end up at the same laptime once I get used to it...

I did have to move the brake balance forwards though - as @Benutzername sugggested earlier in this thread - because it was inexplicably starting to spin under braking after several laps (inexplicable because the front grip had decreased as the tyres went off and the rear grip was still maxed out at that point, or so I thought anyway). I think I'm running 77% at present, which sounds nuts but it's working.

UMC 22 · Oct 12, 2020

Neilski said:
Btw, I noticed that it showed that weird issue that AC has - you can see it from 0:48 to 0:58 in the video, where the blue car surges forwards periodically relative to the black car. I think this has been described as a bug in the past (timing mismatches?) but I can't remember any details.

Yeah, this is noticeable while racing too. Particularly dodgy while drafting as you surge forwards and almost clobber the car in front. No idea what the cause it but you kind of get used to it and drive accordingly.

The video also shows a second minor bug, in that on some occasions the Mini's are rocket powered! They have permanent flames coming from the exhausts.

BP · Oct 13, 2020

PicoBp said:
Somehow I'm way off pace at Okayama... Any baseline setup tips for the car, without spoiling a secret recipe of yours? Sadly, I've never been good at the mechanic stuff.

May I ask how you know what the pace is for this track? Unless I happen to go in a practice server with other fast guys setting times, I usually have no idea (especially if it's a combo I'm not familiar with). I usually push myself to as far as I think I can go, only to then find a lap time that's a bit faster on the server and that in turn pushes me to go harder than I thought I could and somehow find more time (it's a psychological thing I guess

).

As someone else mentioned, I usually make sure I can beat the AI at 100%...but beyond that it's a guessing game to human pace, as the guys upfront can usually do that in their sleep.

Goffik said:
The video also shows a second minor bug, in that on some occasions the Mini's are rocket powered! They have permanent flames coming from the exhausts.

Yea that's a replay bug if you pause while the car is backfiring, can't remember what I did to make it go away though

Jacob Marshall · Oct 13, 2020

Neilski said:
...just about everything else seems to feel a little different but then end up at the same laptime once I get used to it...

Yup, me too.

Neilski said:
...I think I'm running 77% at present, which sounds nuts but it's working.

That made a difference, but makes no sense to me. We're increasing bias forward, so increasing weight (and traction circle) to the front of the car...which reduces weight and grip at the back?

Going to try and re-install a telemetry app today and have a (clueless) browse; wondering if ride-height might be worth a look*.

*I have no idea what I'm doing.

UMC 22 · Oct 13, 2020

BP said:
Yea that's a replay bug if you pause while the car is backfiring, can't remember what I did to make it go away though

Ah I see, thanks. I'll have a look for a solution as pause is inevitable when looking for highlights to capture!

Neilski · Oct 13, 2020

Jacob Marshall said:
That made a difference, but makes no sense to me. We're increasing bias forward, so increasing weight (and traction circle) to the front of the car...which reduces weight and grip at the back?

Going to try and re-install a telemetry app today and have a (clueless) browse; wondering if ride-height might be worth a look*.

I haven't played with ride height much yet - I think I just assumed that lower might be better and tried it (result: unsure

).
As for bias: in a "normal" car, moving it forward reduces rear locking, and thus avoids spins (or: not applying the handbrake is a good thing

).
In this car... I dunno, 77% is insane in the first place and I'm all but certain that I'm getting front locking anyway

But without unpacking the car data and analysing it, it's hard to say more.

Neilski · Oct 13, 2020

Neilski said:
I am planning to go back to more or less defaults next and compare my times to see if any of it actually helped, because right now I'm not at all sure.

Btw, I did this last night. With an "almost default" setup (tyre pressures tweaked, brake bal=77) I was indeed a little slower than my "everything tweaked" setup - maybe half a second or a smidgin more.
Then I tried the "almost default" with a little extra front camber and suddenly I couldn't tell the difference any more...
So if anyone has tips on how to make the default significantly better I'm all ears

Peevee88 · Oct 13, 2020

I had a great time and look forward to the next one on Friday

PicoBp · Oct 14, 2020

BP said:
May I ask how you know what the pace is for this track?

Been on the practice server several nights and caught someone doing high 1:40s-low 1:41s. I'm stuck at mid 1:42s after a bit of suspension tweaking and the recommended brake balance shift. But have no clue how to break this wall, even after analysing the replays from others that got better results.

Regarding my general pace, I'm no alien, but can usually lap within 1 sec to pole.

Neilski · Oct 14, 2020

PicoBp said:
Been on the practice server several nights and caught someone doing high 1:40s-low 1:41s. I'm stuck at mid 1:42s after a bit of suspension tweaking and the recommended brake balance shift. But have no clue how to break this wall, even after analysing the replays from others that got better results.

Regarding my general pace, I'm no alien, but can usually lap within 1 sec to pole.

I find the track pretty tricky, and at my first race here, I was getting some corners (esp. T1) badly wrong for the whole session. I'm still not at all sure about some of the lines. Are you finding that most of the lost time is in a particular sector?

PicoBp · Oct 14, 2020

Neilski said:
I find the track pretty tricky, and at my first race here, I was getting some corners (esp. T1) badly wrong for the whole session. I'm still not at all sure about some of the lines. Are you finding that most of the lost time is in a particular sector?

I seem to loose just a bit in the first sector, a big chunk in the second, and another few in the third. Something in the likes of 0.2/0.8/0.3 seconds. Although I'm still not confident in my T1 line.

Neilski · Oct 14, 2020

PicoBp said:
I seem to loose just a bit in the first sector, a big chunk in the second, and another few in the third. Something in the likes of 0.2/0.8/0.3 seconds. Although I'm still not confident in my T1 line.

Ah ok so T1 doesn't explain much of it then... Not sure what to suggest, but I generally do find watching replays of quick laps to be really helpful.

Jacob Marshall · Oct 15, 2020

Running defaults, hovering at mid 1:43 as a consistent....that'll do me; fun has begun to turn to frustration so I'll accept that as the edge of my skill

; no more laps until the race.

Neilski · Oct 15, 2020

I haven't actually timed a pit stop yet (it's really rare that I join races which need a stop!) but on a quick trial run, the fuel took way less time than a tyre change. Tempting to consider doing the race on one set, if they don't get totally destroyed.
Do you guys reckon that the tyre change would be worthwhile?

Jacob Marshall · Oct 16, 2020

At my pace I'm thinking about fuel only, I'm not seeing so much wear that I think time lost replacing tyres can be made up with time gained for new tyres.

That being said I'll have two strategies setup; one with and one without tyres.

Chris Down · Oct 16, 2020

Neilski said:
I haven't actually timed a pit stop yet (it's really rare that I join races which need a stop!) but on a quick trial run, the fuel took way less time than a tyre change. Tempting to consider doing the race on one set, if they don't get totally destroyed.
Do you guys reckon that the tyre change would be worthwhile?

I was one of the only ones up the front doing no change at Watkins Glen. I would say the tyres were not too unpredictable to drive, but lacking a lot in grip towards the end. In testing it's about ~0.7-0.8 second loss a lap on old tyres vs. new ones, so the gain is not as much as it seems since you're going to need to run them for a fair number of laps.

UMC 22 · Oct 16, 2020

Neilski said:
Do you guys reckon that the tyre change would be worthwhile?

It's been years since I played AC so I have no idea how tyre wear affects grip levels in this sim, and I didn't do any long runs in practice last time. But during the previous race it felt to me like there was a definite drop in traction before the pit stop and end of the race. I couldn't see my tyre wear on the HUD very well in VR, but I'm pretty sure they were nowhere near the bottom. Personally, I'm going to play it safe and change the rubber... I've never been a fan of "nursing" cars home.

Edit:

'd by Chris. He probably knows what he's on about.