Cars Porsche 911 Singer 1.1

[jonelsorel]

Can't wait to take this car to a windy french track..

 

[Fat-Alfie]

I found a replay of what I was experiencing

 

[Kyuubeey]

Alfie, judging by the compression sound, you're coasting into there. I think it'd be pretty weird if it *didn't* let go.

 

[jonelsorel]

Massive weight transfer starting at 0:07 there, which made the car rotate big. At least 20km/h too hot for the turn, maybe. Slight coast + brake at that speed, so front gets loaded more than it needs in order to turn, but back has not enough load on it because weight was sent to the right front corner.

 

[CobraCat]

I found a replay of what I was experiencing

I've taken that corner a few times in the Singer. Typically I brake as needed before turn in then apply some throttle to balance out the car.

 

[CobraCat]

This was at 97% grip although the Realtime app displays 100% (saved replay bug)

 

[Amstellodamois]

Superb mod!

 

[jonelsorel]

@ Arch: i've had this happen a few times in this turn at Black Cat County (0:07). This time i really decreased the radius, turning left a bit more before the slip. Other times while turning at a constant radius. Manageable, though.

Got me into looking at telemetry, which shows right rear load is less than right front at the onset of the slip:

How is it possible with so much weight at the back, unless there is some considerable aero lift there? I understand grip decreasing at a certain slip angle, but load.. Maybe an AC limitation, don't know.


In comparison, this is a 4 wheel drift at a much slower speed, where aero has less influence. Notice how right rear load is higher than front.

I remember this (first pic) happening with a previous iteration of your R34 in the long right hander at Deutschlandring.

Cheers!

 

[Kyuubeey]

I can't do **** without pedal and G telemetry, from realtime.

 

[Robin_NL]

This was at 97% grip although the Realtime app displays 100% (saved replay bug)

What enginesound do you use? That's not the 911R is it??

Cheers
Robin

 

[jonelsorel]

In the seconds leading up to the slip, tire load rises more rapidly at the front than at the rear.

Load:

Slip angle:

Load at one point:

Load 600m farther (peak from the entire slip):

Load delta RF: 120kg
Load delta RR: 101kg

 

[Falconitage]

it would be very interesting to see the same kind of videos in Mosport !

 

[Kyuubeey]

You're looking at the wrong thing. The right side is the averaged out value. It's only really good for going in a straight line and getting an alright average over a longer period of time.

If you pause, at any given time in the above vid, there's more load in the rear. It's possible that momentarily it could shift around into a strange arrangement when in transient, because of how ARBs, dampers etc. work to shift the load around. However, everywhere I paused, it was still as you'd expect.

The tire load shift is almost assuredly just from the camber of the road changing. Pay attention to it as the tires start to slip noticeably around 11sec.

Nothing weird here, really. Still in complete broscience territory that doesn't really provide anything meaningful, apart from "I don't like how the car handles here and I think it's wrong".

 

[jonelsorel]

I love how it handles, man. I'm one of the few that actually "defended" it on this topic. Sorry if my post compounded all the others debating on the "unbalance issue". That was not my intention and I can understand if it did.

That being said, I tend to approach things based on facts as much as possible, not "make car balance plz". I just meant to point out that tire load rises more rapidly on the front than rear on a rear biased car on a downhill left hander, which is odd, cambered as it may be. Turn radius is constant, camber isn't rising either. It should have this behavior on a slightly uphill turn, I think. Aero might have an influence in that, I don't know (could be useful to turn it completely off to test).

Data may be perfect, and i trust you on this one because your understanding and attention to detail goes way beyond average. But this is not the first time the AC engine reacts wrong to good data.

https://external-preview.redd.it/USb47JRDaiRA6dNbh6JMBFhpv9mi2QKd0M_3dkC3rVA.jpg?auto=webp&s=705c93e6ab6012f9a2b4209b67292277998cb456

 

[Kyuubeey]

There's almost nothing I could do at a dev-level to fix this issue, if it even was one. I'd need to do a 20-page writeup to get into why exactly this handling behavior is happening.

Also, you really don't understand the context of that conversation. Not relevant at all to post it. We all know the load curves of KS tires aren't right: it's not a case of "reacting wrong to good data" at all.

 

[dud]

Road & Track pulled 0.93G with this car when they tested it on the skidpad.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a25850/exclusive-test-porsche-911-reimagined-by-singer/

I just pulled over 1G on streets and over 1.1G on semislicks. On a 20 degree green track.

This can be explained with more balance. We can mess around with balance-affecting suspension settings all day long. R&T drove the car as delivered I assume.

10% difference in maximum lateral grip is very easily explained with front or rear giving up prematurely.

 

[CobraCat]

What enginesound do you use? That's not the 911R is it??

Cheers
Robin

Porsche 2.0 Liter Flat-6 [Use with any car]

Hi everyone today I'm giving you the opportunity to drive a porsche with the incredible sound of 2.0 liter from the 904/6, with the amazing coasting sounds that gives goosebumps. The soundmod filenames are to change since I used a porsche 930 to...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[CobraCat]

In the seconds leading up to the slip, tire load rises more rapidly at the front than at the rear.

Load:

Slip angle:

Load at one point:
View attachment 333306

Load 600m farther (peak from the entire slip):
View attachment 333307

Load delta RF: 120kg
Load delta RR: 101kg

Vedddy interesting. I've had the very same issues at Black Cat in the Singer. Always wondered that was about.

 

[jonelsorel]

This can be explained with more balance. We can mess around with balance-affecting suspension settings all day long. R&T drove the car as delivered I assume.

10% difference in maximum lateral grip is very easily explained with front or rear giving up prematurely.

Balance is up to the driver. We don't drive the same.

This car doesn't come off of an assembly line. It's hand made, and given the price tag i expect the handling to also be tailored to the customer's wishes, just like everything in the looks department is. I don't think there's 2 cars alike with regards to suspension setup. And even if there is a "norm", the R&T car might not be it. So chasing to mimic the R&T performance is useless, in my opinion.

Best compromise would be to have a good default setup and simply leave the car open to tweaking in the garage, in the same aspects it is in real life.

Speaking of which, one article about the car mentions how the builders obsessed over pedal feel. At the moment the car's ABS kicks in starting with half of the pedal pressed while going straight; trail braking into a turn it's even sooner. That means the bottom half of the pedal stays virgin, not really used. I'd personally hate to pay 600k for one and feel that ABS pedal wobble halfway in. Maybe having the ability to reduce braking force down to, say, 75% could leave enough room to solve this entirely and for everyone.

Could do some tests tomorrow to see what % of current brake force completely eliminates abs kick-in, at least in a straight line, allowing for better pedal modulation.

 

[CobraCat]

I completed a lap with the tyre warmers activated. During the outlap the tyres cooled off a bit although I was able to traverse that corner with a bit more rear end stability. Grip at 97% and speed was a slightly higher than on your attempt. I noticed in your video the car started losing traction almost immediately after you shifted. Your RPMs briefly increased when you shifted (accidental blip?) which seemed to unsettle the car.