Cars Porsche 911 Singer 1.1

[Andy-R]

I'd be curious to see what Andy R could do.

1:12.59

 

[CobraCat]

I thought you'd be at least 3 seconds quicker than me, hahah. Nice lap ! Thanx!

 

[Robin_NL]

Great Andy.
My 2nd attempt this morning and two errors, I can easily shave off one second, but I don 't have the time atm(have to work)
Sorry for the bad photo quality, I could not copy/paste the link(it seems, my bad)
1:14.405 98% Fast track 21 degrees C track temp 19 degrees C ambient temp(I didn't know you could adjust those settings independently in CM.....)

Man I love this car!

Cheers
Robin

 

[jonelsorel]

"A slight lift, and we’re into pure old Porsche territory, all those familiar dynamic shortcomings bright and clear. Rather than pivot around a metaphysical point near the centre of the car, imagine a solid piton driven just behind the rear seats about which the 911 tries to swivel. If you’re used to relentlessly modern equipment, with refined and restructured dynamics, all the hairy aspects neatly shaved smooth by design and electronics, this will feel odd and old, verging on the cheerfully lethal. But here, right now, it feels like an ice-cold breath of fresh air after time spent in an overheated old people’s home. It feels like life."

Think you nailed that, Arch.

Top Gear drives Singer's mighty Porsche 911

Top Gear drives Singer's mighty Porsche 911

www.topgear.com

 

[Kyuubeey]

I didn't nail anything, I can't decide on the dynamics at all. Whatever it does, it does based on inputs, and what it does isn't so far off I think.

There are still some things which are likely wrong and I'll change those. Probably not gonna have a noticeable effect by itself, but things add up and in the end they usually change a car from "Right but not quite" to "Right enough". The difference from "omgz undrivable" and "wow so balanced", well apart from the driver, isn't really so much. It's more of a feeling thing.

Don't worry, there will still be plebs who can't drive it anyway.

 

[Toonces]

Have another look at the Singer's steering wheel.

 

[Toonces]

very close, but....

 

[jonelsorel]

The car represents just one of the 16 million possible Singers atm. There's no two alike.

 

[Kyuubeey]

The car represents just one of the 16 million possible Singers atm. There's no two alike.

Yeah, it is a good point because I'm sure the wheels can be customized to the user's liking. We will probably be able to find 3 or 4 styles of steering wheel thickness and maybe depth and so on if we keep looking enough. The main thing is to confirm that what we do have is correct.

For example, I've found like 4 different ride height settings for the car from pictures and I know at least 3 damping layouts exist, and they run a variety of alignments.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Is there a customer option to stop me losing the back end every time I enter a slight bend at anything above 100kph?

 

[Kyuubeey]

Is there a customer option to stop me losing the back end every time I enter a slight bend at anything above 100kph?

I really don't understand this sentiment. Are you lifting off completely and yanking the wheel or something? Can I have a video?

 

[jonelsorel]

The main thing is to confirm that what we do have is correct.

For example, I've found like 4 different ride height settings for the car from pictures and I know at least 3 damping layouts exist, and they run a variety of alignments.

Reason enough to stick to one and leave what's tweakeable in real life open to tweaking in game. And find some minute amount of peace of mind, maybe.

I stopped racing it last week, but getting back to it today was a pleasure. The current setup is stable, if you remember where the engine is. And it's very responsive to minute changes, which I love.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

I really don't understand this sentiment. Are you lifting off completely and yanking the wheel or something? Can I have a video?

I don't think I'm doing anything excessive. I'll upload a video tonight to show you what I am experiencing.

 

[CobraCat]

With the 911s Im either on the brake or throttle. Just before turn in I apply a bit of brake to load the front tyres up.

Then typically from listening to the tyres I might apply more or less throttle to shift weight to the rear tyres to give me more grip entering the corner then mid corner I increase the throttle gradually as I track out.

I’ve been driving the 911R in this fashion since I purchased AC. As a result I have more miles on it than any other car. Obviously its a much easier in that car because it has rear axle steering.

It a bit like dancing, takes a bit of practice although once u get it its second nature

Using the tyre warmers can help quite a bit. As with all 911s, slow in and fast out is standard procedure.

 

[Andy-R]

Is there a customer option to stop me losing the back end every time I enter a slight bend at anything above 100kph?

There are definitely a load of things you just can't do in this car or it will spin out. I can't really describe what as it is just sort of muscle memory/feel response I think but a good example is the first turn at Silverstone International, if you just try and steer in... especially on the direction change in the second part (it's a right/left) it will just pendulum out of control. If you keep driving it you will just sort of learn what not to do unconsciously and it becomes really rewarding to drive. It definitely has some instability but you can drive in ways to make it work. As mentioned riding the brake and maintaining partial throttle to keep it balanced help a lot and being careful not to unsettle it with quick and sharp steering input... I think :/ I'm not that aware of what I'm doing while driving

 

[Fat-Alfie]

There are definitely a load of things you just can't do in this car or it will spin out. I can't really describe what as it is just sort of muscle memory/feel response I think...

I watched your video a few times this afternoon, and that really helped. I tried to take note of the way you were driving it, where you were being cautious, where you felt able to drive it hard, how you were setting the car up for the corners; all of that was totally different to the way I was trying to drive it, plus I was expecting to be able to recover a slide with the throttle, which I am learning how to do now, but I have to be much quicker to react that I was before.

I started off lapping round Fonteny but trying to be smooth, planning my lines better, being more realistic with my corner entry speeds, and by the 3rd lap I have shaved 12 seconds off my lap time (down to a 9min 51s). It was much more rewarding too, even though it felt like I was driving slower. I think I could probably take another 5 seconds off that time, too

So, I apologise for my comment earlier. I think I have realised that this is one car that benefits from being driven like a real car

Thanks for uploading that video, Andy - it was a real eye-opener, and has enabled me to begin to get to grips with this beautiful car

 

[Kyuubeey]

Okay, I'm getting a little bit tired of this broscience, so I just recorded two laps on Silverstone International with full and stock power, to compare only the tires and suspension while also taking the driver into the equation. Rev cut RPM and limiter hz also changed but nothing else, no coast torque or anything, gearing is 6-speed as well.

My expectation is that Singer will just be slightly more neutral than standard and 95% of the issues with the car people have is just them going 50km/h+ faster into corners than they do IRL/think they are going in the sim.

Laps are purposely cold, bad laps, after my 1st warmup lap out of pits. I'm not very good at International, it took me a few laps prior to recording to learn the layout.

Make your own judgments.

 

[Andy-R]

I think your first video (through the first turns) probably illustrates quite well the handling characteristics people might be struggling with. I just took it to be the nature of the car (having never driven anything rear engined in real life, the closest I've got is an AW11 ) rather than anything wrong with the mod. With most cars in AC that I can think of the front gives up first in the situation like T1 Silverstone Int' and you get understeer, unless it is a really powerrful car and you add too much throttle, where as in the Singer the front is still willing but the rear lets go first. It is really refreshing to drive as I think you really have to approach it differently to most cars which AFAIK is something said of older 911's in general anyway (that there is a particular way you have to drive them to go fast.)

 

[jonelsorel]

Below there's some interestig clips, speaking of loss of grip. First (thanks, CobraCat) illustrates that fuzzy moment when tires are overcome by load, stuff that most of us miss, driving from a still seat. One should always (smoothly) transfer just enough weight to do the cornering, not more. I can't remember which 40's or 50's F1 driver could tell with amazing precision how much weight he had on the wheels at any time, but what's certain is that the best drivers can be fastest and wear their tires least at the same time (Jim Clark, Hamilton, etc). Second clip should explain the first. The bench simulates how Nordschleife acts on a E39 M5 driven fast. Those racing in slow motion clips also help visualize the amazing forces acting on these pieces of rubber filled with air.

It's all about the tires and understanding them.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Yep, that top video shows exactly what I was experiencing, but I clearly don't have the skill to recover from it quite as easily Just this sickening sensation that the back wheels are trying to overtake the front wheels...