Just had a massive laugh at this topic AC understeer

[Deleted member 963434]

Wanted to post but its closed now.

Massive understeer

Hi all, I'm new to ac, is it normal for cars to understeer catastrophically whe. You turn the wheel no more than 45-90 degrees

www.racedepartment.com

and guy said " Yes, the vast majority of cars are designed to understeer when you turn the wheel too much for the speed "
again but short " cars are DESIGNED to UNDERSTEER " whaaat xD
another one " In any racing, real or sim you should turn the wheel the absolute minimum amount "
well xD cars are not designed to understeer but turn fast and easily
also, when you drive fast you not turn so precise and carefully, but fast and hard
I know, i drive different cars daily, i work in car rental and i drive newest cars from 2018 to 2020 from seat ibiza to volvo xc60 or bmw 520d 2018 and i tell you for sure. cars are designed to turn, and when you drive fast, yo not scared to steer too much and be precise but you steer hard and fast, as Nicky Thiim (GTE champion) said bout iracing "yo want be good in iracing you must drive like a girl"
I think same for AC you must drive like a girl , so precise, so finese, so slow mo.
i post this cause i reinstalled AC for like 10 time today (same for PC2, i reinstall them alternately, once im outraged in AC understeer i uninstall it and install PC2, once im outraged in PC2 ffb settings i unistall it and install AC, that happen like 2 month cycle)
and today i just installed AC and think uninstall it again to get back to PC2 tomorrow.
so fo!!!!ken outraged how cars drive there, and this sense of speed boi i tell yo i drive really fast in real life ( i crashed two cars in job) but never go into 90 degree turn at like 50 kph and just get off road lol, and i can tell im goin 50 kph only by looking at speedo and i feel like im goin like 10-20 kph. I tel yo even more in real life i test cars near my home by checking how fast a car can get into 90 degree corner, and im easily make 90 degree corner by 80 kph righ now even with cars as toyota corolla, seat ibiza or my own old bmw e36 i can make 90 degree corner easily at 70 kph, in ac i barely can at 50 kph its so funny
so angry at this game.
i tell you theres no good sim right now for road cars, ACC is just best for gt3 but pc2 would be for road cars if they improve ffb, cars drive like in real life there but yo doin everything by learned habits cause ffb is so poor there
and i didnt even touched rfactor 2 cause scared its AC fanboys making it sound so good and theres even more understeer than AC.. its crap as f... forza horizon is much more comparable to real life than AC

 

[RobertR1]

That's just a low speed physics thing + Kunos-made tires being inaccurate. The sim itself is a good one; you can't conflate car model accuracy with the accuracy of the sim engine.


I'm more concerned with the empty space at the bottom - this plot looks like it might be gated with some channel? Right click, properties, and there's an enable gating checkbox. If that's checked, uncheck it and you should hopefully see the "braking line" fill most of the gap that's there. If not, I'm not entirely sure what's going on with the hole. It could be that your straight line braking is below the capacity of the car, but I don't see enough data points in the braking region (compare it to the point density of the pure cornering and pure acceleration regions) to think that something weird isn't going on with the plot itself.

To answer your other question, these plots are only so useful. With aero cars it becomes more complicated, as the size of the "ideal" ellipse changes with speed and thus it's difficult to get much out of the plot. I personally don't use them much as they're too dependent on driving style and there are other metrics that I prefer to look at for that (and I usually work on cars with a lot of aero, so again, complicated). If you have a way to calculate tire loads in a channel, know approximate aero coefficients, and have a model for tire load sensitivity, you can make a plot that gives a better idea of actual tire performance usage that isn't skewed by aerodynamic forces. It's just a pain, so I don't do that either.

No gating that i could see? maybe it's a mugello thing as you're not hard braking into left handers there.

Here's the RS01 at Barcelona Moto which is more even in terms of left/right corners and braking force required.

Good to know that i can just ignore these Does make for pretty colored charts though.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

No gating that i could see? maybe it's a mugello thing as you're not hard braking into left handers there.

Here's the RS01 at Barcelona Moto which is more even in terms of left/right corners and braking force required.

View attachment 415681

Good to know that i can just ignore these Does make for pretty colored charts though.

Your plots are indeed odd then. They're missing the "pure" braking part of the G-G plot. There should be a high density region around where the gap is at the bottom. Not sure what might be causing it to be missing.

 

[Mr Deap]

That's just a low speed physics thing + Kunos-made tires being inaccurate. The sim itself is a good one; you can't conflate car model accuracy with the accuracy of the sim engine.

Yet it doesn't explain why JSR Devon naturally trail brake deeper into the corner in Gran Turismo(it's also the case on my end) & it's not quite the case for AC/ACC. I'm quite confident it's the case for a ridiculous amount of user regardless of their avatar.

come on get into ac choose bmw m3 e30 240 hp choose vintage 90s tyres and try to make burnout, yo cant, in real life yo can make burnout wit bmw e36 1.6i 102 hp
why yo cant make burnout wit 240 hp car tell me?

I own an impreza 148hp & I can't even turn off the assist. This car is known to be an understeer pig & AC beat it. I can even go sideway on dry surface with it by mashing the throttle with Michelin summer tires on it.

Games physic has a long way to go, thus there's no point to use real technique as per read.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Yet it doesn't explain why JSR Devon naturally trail brake deeper into the corner in Gran Turismo(it's also the case on my end) & it's not quite the case for AC/ACC. I'm quite confident it's the case for a ridiculous amount of user regardless of their avatar.

What does Gran Turismo have to do with anything though... Do you want to compare AC and real life or AC and a video game? You're really grasping at straws now.

 

[Johnr777]

I'm quite confident it's the case for a ridiculous amount of user regardless of their avatar.

What does this even mean...

 

[Gevatter]

What does this even mean...

Only those who use QR Code as their avatar have reached enlightenment.
(BTW don't follow his QR code link, it leads you to a litany of misguidedness and falsehoods.)

 

[Johnr777]

Only those who use QR Code as their avatar have reached enlightenment.
(BTW don't follow his QR code link, it leads you to a litany of misguidedness and falsehoods.)

Too late.... made that mistake a while ago.

 

[RobertR1]

@mclarenf1papa screenshots of the properties screen:

 

[aphidgod]

What does this even mean...

He thinks everyone with a real car in their avatar is a joyless nerd and everyone with an anime avatar is a driftboi yo. It's basically just racism but in such a cute and bizarre way nobody's gotten offended yet. (Apparently I'm a mixed-race avatar then? Not entirely sure how this works yet.)

What it is too is a nice little window into how he categorizes and makes sense of the world, and that has some implications for his simracing guide that I think we should all heed as a warning.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

@mclarenf1papa screenshots of the properties screen:

View attachment 415725
View attachment 415729

View attachment 415726
View attachment 415727
View attachment 415728

Nothing jumping out at me, maybe try disabling the color channel. Can you show a time/distance plot of your longitudinal g trace?

 

[RobertR1]

Nothing jumping out at me, maybe try disabling the color channel. Can you show a time/distance plot of your longitudinal g trace?

How do I do the "time/distance plot of your longitudinal g trace" part?

 

[mclarenf1papa]

How do I do the "time/distance plot of your longitudinal g trace" part?

Normal motec plot

 

[RobertR1]

View attachment 415756
Normal motec plot

The full screen:

Excerpt of what you asked;

Mugello 650s fyi

Here's the lap if you wanted to see if the data makes sense:

 

[mclarenf1papa]

The full screen:
View attachment 415758

Excerpt of what you asked;

View attachment 415759

Mugello 650s fyi

Here's the lap if you wanted to see if the data makes sense:

Yeah I think it makes sense for your driving style on these tracks (not many straight braking zones since the zones are so short). You can do a trailbraking plot (x axis steering, y brake input) like the one I showed last page and it should make things super clear.

 

[Mr Deap]

What does Gran Turismo have to do with anything though...

Braking is more natural. You're not fighting trying to figure what to do & rely on data to compensate.

 

[RobertR1]

Yeah I think it makes sense for your driving style on these tracks (not many straight braking zones since the zones are so short). You can do a trailbraking plot (x axis steering, y brake input) like the one I showed last page and it should make things super clear.

Should the steering angle match the ratio of the car? If the 650s is 480 degrees for example, X axis = -240 to +240?

Not sure I did this right. Same combo. Just the race laps in clean air from 2x30 min races.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Braking is more natural. You're not fighting trying to figure what to do & rely on data to compensate.

Now we're fully on the opinion side of things. Anyway, I disagree.

Should the steering angle match the ratio of the car? If the 650s is 480 degrees for example, X axis = -240 to +240?

View attachment 415789

Not sure I did this right. Same combo. Just the race laps in clean air from 2x30 min races.

Yeah makes sense, you do quite a lot of steering while on the brakes (not always a bad thing). Axis scale doesn't really matter as long as all of the data points fit in it. Just looking at trends.

 

[RobertR1]

Thanks a ton for your help and feedback!

 

[Mr Deap]

Now we're fully on the opinion side of things. Anyway, I disagree.

That's not an opinion. I used examples with real people as justification.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

That's not an opinion. I used examples with real people as justification.

Well okay, if we're going to play that game, my most recent client said this about the braking of the car in AC:

Turn 10a: Cars were the same. Both cars braked the same and braked very well. Also both cars turned in well as I came off brakes. (Jackson, this was really important and thank you for all the work you did on the brakes. I passed a ton of cars into turn 10 and was very comfortable doing it because I had practiced it so much in the sim and the real car behaved the same. I was better on the brakes than most of the other drivers because of it.).