Just had a massive laugh at this topic AC understeer

[Deleted member 963434]

Wanted to post but its closed now.

Massive understeer

Hi all, I'm new to ac, is it normal for cars to understeer catastrophically whe. You turn the wheel no more than 45-90 degrees

www.racedepartment.com

and guy said " Yes, the vast majority of cars are designed to understeer when you turn the wheel too much for the speed "
again but short " cars are DESIGNED to UNDERSTEER " whaaat xD
another one " In any racing, real or sim you should turn the wheel the absolute minimum amount "
well xD cars are not designed to understeer but turn fast and easily
also, when you drive fast you not turn so precise and carefully, but fast and hard
I know, i drive different cars daily, i work in car rental and i drive newest cars from 2018 to 2020 from seat ibiza to volvo xc60 or bmw 520d 2018 and i tell you for sure. cars are designed to turn, and when you drive fast, yo not scared to steer too much and be precise but you steer hard and fast, as Nicky Thiim (GTE champion) said bout iracing "yo want be good in iracing you must drive like a girl"
I think same for AC you must drive like a girl , so precise, so finese, so slow mo.
i post this cause i reinstalled AC for like 10 time today (same for PC2, i reinstall them alternately, once im outraged in AC understeer i uninstall it and install PC2, once im outraged in PC2 ffb settings i unistall it and install AC, that happen like 2 month cycle)
and today i just installed AC and think uninstall it again to get back to PC2 tomorrow.
so fo!!!!ken outraged how cars drive there, and this sense of speed boi i tell yo i drive really fast in real life ( i crashed two cars in job) but never go into 90 degree turn at like 50 kph and just get off road lol, and i can tell im goin 50 kph only by looking at speedo and i feel like im goin like 10-20 kph. I tel yo even more in real life i test cars near my home by checking how fast a car can get into 90 degree corner, and im easily make 90 degree corner by 80 kph righ now even with cars as toyota corolla, seat ibiza or my own old bmw e36 i can make 90 degree corner easily at 70 kph, in ac i barely can at 50 kph its so funny
so angry at this game.
i tell you theres no good sim right now for road cars, ACC is just best for gt3 but pc2 would be for road cars if they improve ffb, cars drive like in real life there but yo doin everything by learned habits cause ffb is so poor there
and i didnt even touched rfactor 2 cause scared its AC fanboys making it sound so good and theres even more understeer than AC.. its crap as f... forza horizon is much more comparable to real life than AC

 

[Mr Deap]

I have old footage of Gran Turismo

March 5 2011

Nov 14, 2015 (I used simracing random coaching as reference)

Both driver are me.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

If we're just posting random videos now...

 

[Mr Deap]

Seriously 4 years later I learned in reverse because of AC physic. The game handling makes you drive wrong early in the game, because of the weird understeer. Cars is supposed to be easy to drive, but AC is not hard. it makes you drive wrong & you force your brain to adapt to the game handling.

 

[Metla]

This thread wont peak until people start using made up words to go along with their imaginary concepts.

 

[Stereo]

What, "bomb diving" isn't made up enough for you?

 

[AccAkut]

What, "bomb diving" isn't made up enough for you?

pff, not made up at all!

 

[Mr Deap]

What, "bomb diving" isn't made up enough for you?

You have to track back to this post.

Bomb dive with the brake seems to be the accurate term for trail braking in AC.
View attachment 407605
I feel bad for whoever snob around on other titles.

As far as telemetry data show, AC got corner entry wrong. When people claim that AC cars are unique, they ain't joking.

 

[Johnr777]

Too late.... made that mistake a while ago.

Or quote yourself...

 

[Kek700]

@RobertR1

Did you actually conclude anything from the MoTeC charts?

I could only mimic using Brands Hatch, my charts are virtually identical.

Hole included too.

As you are quite a bit quicker I was particularly interested in the results but was not able to see any difference. I suppose 1 or 2 seconds distributed over a few miles is at the end relatively small margins. And the inability to maybe see small margins.

When I get time I will run Mugello in a 650s, depending on your response.

 

[RobertR1]

@Kek700

Mainly that i like to have slight amount of brakes leading to the apex to keep the nose down. The shape of the curves seems to be track and car dependent but the general theme holds true on how I like to drive. I'll keep getting more data points and see how they evolve over time.

I mainly use motec to do lap overlap variance reviews to see where I'm losing/gaining time vs myself and then look at my brake and throttle application and see where to improve.

I'm slowly starting to understand dampers from a data perspective but some of the mods aren't as nice in their data setup as official content.

 

[Kek700]

Thanks for that Robert, this is my take, I am not 100% happy with what I expect from the data.
Either what I expect or what the internet indicates I should see.
I fully understand it is 100% my problem in that I am not conversant with how the data logging is created, software-wise and if it has
been properly created or I am doing something wrong.
I am, like most of us, alone Simracer, unable to look at the software, unable to ask anyone, unable to compare data, either real or sim.
in the last 3 years, I have managed to get one set of Motec data, that was limited too.
I have actually started to frig the car set up to try and observe if Motec has picked it up or I can make sense of the change via Motec.

Invariably I never can, so that has me starting to doubt Motec or more probably I am not interoperating the situation properly, that
leads to asking, but there is no one to ask. So I give up until a new burst of enthusiasm.

I have of late been interested in fast damping, only to be defeated again by Motec.

These articles from Mr. Deap really have mostly been my only real source of information, any information is better than none.
It seems that the only way to get information is to tickle people's pride, only then is there a flow of useful data that they would not normally divulge.

When I try the tickling approach I invariably get ignored or insulted.

Thank you, Mr. Deap.

 

[Stereo]

Dampers definitely shouldn't show up on a G-G plot, they're transient forces only and will get lost in the noise of steady state braking/cornering. I think that's just a red herring from deap, he's either referring to something other than dampers (packers maybe) or fully out in the weeds.

Probably you want to zoom in on the times where the car is weight transferring fastest (initial brake kick, initial turn-in) to see what the fast dampers do for you. Then you can compare 2 logs. In smooth trail braking applications the fast dampers won't be present at all, they'd only change the series of dots moving from full acceleration to full braking through the center of the G-G plot.

If you want to get smart you'd maybe be able to use the damper velocity channel to highlight the points where fast dampers got triggered.

 

[RobertR1]

@Kek700

For me, Motec is just a tool. Like any resource, some will benefit more than others. Esp great for those with a strong grasp of vehicle dynamics. I personally still focus on the driving and what I’m feeling in the car first rather than making graphs look pretty. Often they do correlate well so that’s a nice bonus.

Ultimately, you still need to think about what it is you’re doing any why you’re doing it when driving. Most improvements will come from continuous self analysis rather than anything else.

Not sure that I agree that some data is better than none. Information presented in the wrong context using the right terminology can be damaging as it gives the illusion of validity and people start adapting to false principles.

Here’s a motec guide which I find good. http://www.screens.fmmotorsports.com/MoTec/Motec rFactor Basics (Tannerdog).pdf

Look up Nils on YouTube for very detailed analysis of using motec. He’s very data centric and you won’t find a better source currently. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvAOVlmkpdcR3VAuPZcONV3-SKapVFq34

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Thanks for that Robert, this is my take, I am not 100% happy with what I expect from the data.
Either what I expect or what the internet indicates I should see.
I fully understand it is 100% my problem in that I am not conversant with how the data logging is created, software-wise and if it has
been properly created or I am doing something wrong.
I am, like most of us, alone Simracer, unable to look at the software, unable to ask anyone, unable to compare data, either real or sim.
in the last 3 years, I have managed to get one set of Motec data, that was limited too.
I have actually started to frig the car set up to try and observe if Motec has picked it up or I can make sense of the change via Motec.

Invariably I never can, so that has me starting to doubt Motec or more probably I am not interoperating the situation properly, that
leads to asking, but there is no one to ask. So I give up until a new burst of enthusiasm.

I have of late been interested in fast damping, only to be defeated again by Motec.

These articles from Mr. Deap really have mostly been my only real source of information, any information is better than none.
It seems that the only way to get information is to tickle people's pride, only then is there a flow of useful data that they would not normally divulge.

When I try the tickling approach I invariably get ignored or insulted.

Thank you, Mr. Deap.

This is why Mr. Deap's information is a hazard to the community. Wrong information is not better than no information.

And people are generally pretty forthcoming with legitimate information, not many people ask for it though. I guarantee if you make a thread in the right forum section asking about what a G-G plot is, how to use it, etc, you'll get quite a few responses. Same with any tips on Motec and what kind of data it can show/how to use it. You asked once here and got a reply with two sources of significant information from one guy within an hour (and good advice from another guy right before that).

 

[Deleted member 963434]

just spend some time in race room and i tell yo best ffb ever, so linear, so much feel car but when cornering ffb lightens but if yo spin it countersteer so fast and in place when it should, understeer i had to put at 100% and i feel it so godd, in ac understeer fell is too much yet yo have even option to enhance it. and race room has less oscillation than any sim yo can drive at 200 kph release wheel and it straighten just fast, in other sim when yo relese wheel at 200 it goes crazy. i saw people tellin race room ffb bad cause feel linear but i tell yo what, wheels in real cars actually works very linear. i spend some time in race room and feel car so good, car turns where yo want, yo feel understeer slightly (even at 100% i have set) and then yo just release throttle and car gets back into control, most realistic feel cars behave like cars, then i go to acc and then i felt what is wrong with most sims, yo not feel like driving car but like horse drawn carriage xD exactly now i know how to compare almost all sims, they not simulate cars but carriages. yo turn wheel and its like yo hold the reins and tellin horse where to go, it goes there and gives yo so called ffb, strong weird forces and oscillations. almost all simulators actually simulating horse riding xD cause they float all sides and hard to tell what cars doing and it should be linear forces car should just turn where yo turning it, wheel countersteer when yo slip etc. in reace room ffb so good when going over kerbs too, my whole rig shaking so loud

 

[Johnr777]

just spend some time in race room and i tell yo best ffb ever, so linear, so much feel car but when cornering ffb lightens but if yo spin it countersteer so fast and in place when it should, understeer i had to put at 100% and i feel it so godd, in ac understeer fell is too much yet yo have even option to enhance it. and race room has less oscillation than any sim yo can drive at 200 kph release wheel and it straighten just fast, in other sim when yo relese wheel at 200 it goes crazy. i saw people tellin race room ffb bad cause feel linear but i tell yo what, wheels in real cars actually works very linear. i spend some time in race room and feel car so good, car turns where yo want, yo feel understeer slightly (even at 100% i have set) and then yo just release throttle and car gets back into control, most realistic feel cars behave like cars, then i go to acc and then i felt what is wrong with most sims, yo not feel like driving car but like horse drawn carriage xD exactly now i know how to compare almost all sims, they not simulate cars but carriages. yo turn wheel and its like yo hold the reins and tellin horse where to go, it goes there and gives yo so called ffb, strong weird forces and oscillations. almost all simulators actually simulating horse riding xD cause they float all sides and hard to tell what cars doing and it should be linear forces car should just turn where yo turning it, wheel countersteer when yo slip etc. in reace room ffb so good when going over kerbs too, my whole rig shaking so loud

Then yo shod go 2 play reace rooom

 

[Kek700]

Very true,

I just know how difficult this data logging is to come to terms with, especially when you have more questions than time.
Basically I’m put off before I start, first it’s getting into just the software can be a challenge, then there is the useful extraction of practical information once that is done, now that is the ultimate challenge.

I shall think more about your response and try and come up with a formalised
Point of contact for just MoTec questions via AC general forum.

 

[Mr Deap]

This is why Mr. Deap's information is a hazard to the community.

Indeed, I now use the term simulation value when the game control(regardless what's the genre) is absolute junk & slow.

 

[Mr Deap]

Seriously, you can't trail brake to drift & there's almost no lift off oversteer.

Calling AC understeer simulator is 100% legit. It's even more than case if you compare to almost every games on the market.

What the dev did on steam is wrong, cause you have no proof to back up, thus the flag. Weak team.

 

[Johnr777]

Seriously, you can't trail brake to drift & there's almost no lift off oversteer.

Calling AC understeer simulator is 100% legit. It's even more than case if you compare to almost every games on the market.

What the dev did on steam is wrong, cause you have no proof to back up, thus the flag. Weak team.

Then why are you here? Hit the delete button on your AC install and go bother other communities.