Just had a massive laugh at this topic AC understeer

[Deleted member 963434]

Wanted to post but its closed now.

Massive understeer

Hi all, I'm new to ac, is it normal for cars to understeer catastrophically whe. You turn the wheel no more than 45-90 degrees

www.racedepartment.com

and guy said " Yes, the vast majority of cars are designed to understeer when you turn the wheel too much for the speed "
again but short " cars are DESIGNED to UNDERSTEER " whaaat xD
another one " In any racing, real or sim you should turn the wheel the absolute minimum amount "
well xD cars are not designed to understeer but turn fast and easily
also, when you drive fast you not turn so precise and carefully, but fast and hard
I know, i drive different cars daily, i work in car rental and i drive newest cars from 2018 to 2020 from seat ibiza to volvo xc60 or bmw 520d 2018 and i tell you for sure. cars are designed to turn, and when you drive fast, yo not scared to steer too much and be precise but you steer hard and fast, as Nicky Thiim (GTE champion) said bout iracing "yo want be good in iracing you must drive like a girl"
I think same for AC you must drive like a girl , so precise, so finese, so slow mo.
i post this cause i reinstalled AC for like 10 time today (same for PC2, i reinstall them alternately, once im outraged in AC understeer i uninstall it and install PC2, once im outraged in PC2 ffb settings i unistall it and install AC, that happen like 2 month cycle)
and today i just installed AC and think uninstall it again to get back to PC2 tomorrow.
so fo!!!!ken outraged how cars drive there, and this sense of speed boi i tell yo i drive really fast in real life ( i crashed two cars in job) but never go into 90 degree turn at like 50 kph and just get off road lol, and i can tell im goin 50 kph only by looking at speedo and i feel like im goin like 10-20 kph. I tel yo even more in real life i test cars near my home by checking how fast a car can get into 90 degree corner, and im easily make 90 degree corner by 80 kph righ now even with cars as toyota corolla, seat ibiza or my own old bmw e36 i can make 90 degree corner easily at 70 kph, in ac i barely can at 50 kph its so funny
so angry at this game.
i tell you theres no good sim right now for road cars, ACC is just best for gt3 but pc2 would be for road cars if they improve ffb, cars drive like in real life there but yo doin everything by learned habits cause ffb is so poor there
and i didnt even touched rfactor 2 cause scared its AC fanboys making it sound so good and theres even more understeer than AC.. its crap as f... forza horizon is much more comparable to real life than AC

 

[Mr Deap]

mod-edit: no

 

[AccAkut]

 

[aphidgod]

Guys, I'm afraid it's not going to work. Man knows what he knows and no amount of reality, fact or genuine expertise is going to sway him. Admitting he's wrong is simply too much to bear and it's not going to happen.

Please, for our collective sanity, let's let this die. Our only hope is to bury it like radioactive waste and hope nobody in the future digs deep enough to find it.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

RD should just adopt Twitter's policy of putting a disclaimer on blatant misinformation. Or just ban him. Anyway, the last picture is just as idiotic as the rest of the things he's said.

 

[Steen71]

At this point I'm tempted to believe that he's using an early version of Google Translate and running his original language through Swahili then Mandarin then Hungarian and finally English.

Or rather "English".

 

[Mr Deap]

RD should just adopt Twitter's policy of putting a disclaimer on blatant misinformation. Or just ban him. Anyway, the last picture is just as idiotic as the rest of the things he's said.

You should blame driver61 with "his amateur trace line grip circle" example.

Maybe the fix is to change that trace line & say it's also professional.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

i think Mr Deap may be right, i just did abous 900 km today in real car, comparing to sims i think its AC have less grip than real life when everything is under controll (when you goin too slow as Mario Andretti would say) but when yo breaking and turning there is in real life yo would understeer and in AC yo would get proper grip then.
so when goin slow/decent speeds yo have better/more grip in real life (cars easy to turn, just stick to road)
but when hard breaking in real life yo crash and in AC yo gain laptime
i see from my real life experience and i tell yo i drive many different cars daily in different conditios. i within 5 years of job in car rental droven in dry hight temp, dry low temps, wet, snow, big snow, ice etc and i crashed 3 cars so i know best where there is grip loss and i tell yo most sims yo have less grip when goin low speeds than in real life, and too much grip when goin at faster speeds

 

[Deleted member 963434]

best proof would be many youtube videos of comparing AC to real life and they same guy drive same car on same track in AC and real life and i see they drive indeed same in real life as in AC, but me judging just by video footage could tell in real life they even could do better, but they just scared cause tey play too much AC XD and im sure i would be faster and any guy who never play sims could be faster cause all sims just too hard and makes yo scared to drive in real life, as Nicky Thiim said "to be good in sims yo must drive like a girl" and in real life who drive like a girl may not crash but he never be fastest cause he scared to drive he think he pushin car to limit like in AC but hes no near the limit in real life we have much more grip and can push car harder than in any sims, as i said earlier pCARS2 was pretty close to tis but had worst ffb than any other sim and "community" say its arcadish so tey now go full arcade with pCARS3 and it all your fault

 

[mclarenf1papa]

"and i crashed 3 cars so i know best where there is grip loss"
Doesn't crashing three times mean you probably don't know best where there's grip loss? Seems like a symptom of not knowing where the limit is and consistently overstepping it.

To those keeping up with the sane side of things, Deap still doesn't understand how the friction circle works (or what Driver61 was saying, which isn't wrong fwiw) and well-done cars in AC are still very close to real life.

 

[Mr Deap]

To those keeping up with the sane side of things, Deap still doesn't understand how the friction circle works (or what Driver61 was saying, which isn't wrong fwiw) and well-done cars in AC are still very close to real life.

I have a feeling you got offended by your circle. It's showcase being amateur by driver61, if you overlay the grip circle over your data according to his webpage. I don't understand why you point finger at me. I'm just using reputable resource available over the internet & based on that resource, you're doing it wrong, but you go fast in the game, while everybody else see odd understeer, weak brake, lift off understeer.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Procrastinating on updating the CSP Traction Control module so here we are.

I have a feeling you got offended by your circle. It's showcase being amateur by driver61, if you overlay the grip circle over your data according to his webpage. I don't understand why you point finger at me. I'm just using reputable resource available over the internet & based on that resource, you're doing it wrong, but you go fast in the game, while everybody else see odd understeer, weak brake, lift off understeer.

I mostly didn't like that one because you interpreted and used the Driver61 information incorrectly (and still don't really understand what the friction circle actually is). This is how it would look:

As you can see, nowhere near the (completely arbitrarily hand drawn, mind you) amateur line. Anyway, at the fundamental programmatic level, the tire model in AC follows the "string theory", so there isn't actually any argument to be made against that. I'm just substantiating its validity with the same types of data analysis you're using, just...done more correctly.

And I've been a simulation engineer/simulation consultant for a few high-level (CTSCC ST, GT3, LMP3, LMPC, LMP2) professional racing teams now (in addition to some work with manufacturers) and have worked with both professional and "amateur" drivers at those levels, so I probably also qualify as a fairly reputable resource on the internet.

 

[Mr Deap]

I mostly didn't like that one because you interpreted and used the Driver61 information incorrectly (and still don't really understand what the friction circle actually is)

You cheated by drawing the circle smaller. The shape do look closer to driver61 amateur grip circle at quick glance. There's a bunch of dots sticking outside your small circle. Any sane person who actually listen at school can see it through.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

You cheated by drawing the circle smaller. The shape do look closer to driver61 amateur grip circle at quick glance. There's a bunch of dots sticking outside your small circle. Any sane person who actually listen at school can see it through.

Well, those dots are outside of the circle because I picked a load near the average cornering load, not the maximum. Since the car has downforce, in braking zones and fast corners, it produces more Gs than this average, and thus jumps outside of the defined circle in those scenarios (you'll see how this doesn't happen on the right side because there isn't a very fast right turn on the track). Doesn't mean it's wrong or a "cheat", just continues to mean you don't know what you're talking about. For someone that claims to be sane and a good listener, you seem to have a hard time grasping these points.

Anyway a "quick glance" shows a completely opposite concavity in the D61 plot and mine, so not sure what you're trying to get at there either.

 

[Mr Deap]

Anyway a "quick glance" shows a completely opposite concavity in the D61 plot and mine, so not sure what you're trying to get at there either.

Telemetry Uses Data Visualization to Take Race Cars to the Next Level - Rock Content

Telemetry Uses Data Visualization to Take Race Cars to the Next Level. Insights to help you grow your business.

en.rockcontent.com

According to this website "Telemetry Uses Data Visualization to Take Race Cars to the Next Level", it should be a triangle shape. It shouldn't look like tip & a circle that almost look square at the bottom. Again, this data point out there's no tip sticking out. It also advertise the amateur driving with the note "Dip". Even Lewis Hamilton lap on youtube seems to look more like a triangle.

Not sure if you're trying to troll me... There's 2 actual reputable sources that point out you're an amateur, according to their grip circle in their own website.

 

[Stereo]

So what you're saying is that there's no evidence of AC's traction circle being a square anywhere on the internet, but you believe it to be a triangle square based on cars understeering instead of turning in when you combine braking and steering?

The reason that page looks like a triangle, and Jackson's looks like an upside down triangle, is because they're pictures of the same triangle facing different directions, right? And they're matching between Lewis Hamilton and Jackson because the traction circle is the same shape in AC and irl, correct?

 

[Mr Deap]

So what you're saying is that there's no evidence of AC's traction circle being a square anywhere on the internet, but you believe it to be a triangle square based on cars understeering instead of turning in when you combine braking and steering?

With high downforce car based on reputable source, it should show a triangle.

The only data come from AC is from a professional simracer & it has that meme understeer vibe to it.

 

[Stereo]

You can't see understeer on a G force graph... any vibes you see are in your own head.

 

[Mr Deap]

claiming it's based on my opinion is wrong, cause it's from an actual source. I feel like I have to remind everybody that I'm using external source to backup the evidence.

You can't see understeer on a G force graph

Yeah you can, cause the car will not have a triangle shape, but amateur understeer like pro. When the car refuse to corner, it lose traction, thus result less G. It will result the amateur graph example.

any vibes you see are in your own head.

The vibe of science

 

[Jim Layee]

claiming it's based on my opinion is wrong, cause it's from an actual source. I feel like I have to remind everybody that I'm using external source to backup the evidence.


Yeah you can, cause the car will not have a triangle shape, but amateur understeer like pro. When the car refuse to corner, it lose traction, thus result less G. It will result the amateur graph example.

The vibe of science

The problem is you're trying to prove the earth is flat with "science" with know that all the data proves it is not.

There is a time to walk away from any theory and that is when the model doesn't match the data and you're well past that point.

Call it a learning experience.

 

[Mr Deap]

The problem is you're trying to prove the earth is flat with "science" with know that all the data proves it is not.

There is a time to walk away from any theory and that is when the model doesn't match the data and you're well past that point.

Call it a learning experience.

I don't use theory. it's all data related with common sense as per read. Even reputable real car website advertise AC being an understeer simulator which support OP experience with this game.

" both virtual and real car, it was way easier to handle the real car and enter with more speed into high-speed corners, whereas the virtual car has had more tendencies to understeer. The braking performance in real car wasn’t as effective as it is in virtual car though. "

GAME vs REALITY: Testing the Toyota GT86 on Slovakiaring

Article about comparing the virtual and real car, on the same track, at the limit.

drivetribe.com

If you use the traction circle as per read provide by the professional simracer in this thread & the reference from this reputable car enthusiast website, it totally make sense. You get a tip of g sticking out & he purposely draw his circle smaller to compensate to science.