Just had a massive laugh at this topic AC understeer

Deleted member 963434 · Jul 15, 2020

Wanted to post but its closed now.

Massive understeer

Hi all, I'm new to ac, is it normal for cars to understeer catastrophically whe. You turn the wheel no more than 45-90 degrees

www.racedepartment.com

and guy said " Yes, the vast majority of cars are designed to understeer when you turn the wheel too much for the speed "
again but short " cars are DESIGNED to UNDERSTEER " whaaat xD
another one " In any racing, real or sim you should turn the wheel the absolute minimum amount "
well xD cars are not designed to understeer but turn fast and easily
also, when you drive fast you not turn so precise and carefully, but fast and hard
I know, i drive different cars daily, i work in car rental and i drive newest cars from 2018 to 2020 from seat ibiza to volvo xc60 or bmw 520d 2018 and i tell you for sure. cars are designed to turn, and when you drive fast, yo not scared to steer too much and be precise but you steer hard and fast, as Nicky Thiim (GTE champion) said bout iracing "yo want be good in iracing you must drive like a girl"
I think same for AC you must drive like a girl , so precise, so finese, so slow mo.
i post this cause i reinstalled AC for like 10 time today (same for PC2, i reinstall them alternately, once im outraged in AC understeer i uninstall it and install PC2, once im outraged in PC2 ffb settings i unistall it and install AC, that happen like 2 month cycle)
and today i just installed AC and think uninstall it again to get back to PC2 tomorrow.
so fo!!!!ken outraged how cars drive there, and this sense of speed boi i tell yo i drive really fast in real life ( i crashed two cars in job) but never go into 90 degree turn at like 50 kph and just get off road lol, and i can tell im goin 50 kph only by looking at speedo and i feel like im goin like 10-20 kph. I tel yo even more in real life i test cars near my home by checking how fast a car can get into 90 degree corner, and im easily make 90 degree corner by 80 kph righ now even with cars as toyota corolla, seat ibiza or my own old bmw e36 i can make 90 degree corner easily at 70 kph, in ac i barely can at 50 kph its so funny
so angry at this game.
i tell you theres no good sim right now for road cars, ACC is just best for gt3 but pc2 would be for road cars if they improve ffb, cars drive like in real life there but yo doin everything by learned habits cause ffb is so poor there
and i didnt even touched rfactor 2 cause scared its AC fanboys making it sound so good and theres even more understeer than AC.. its crap as f... forza horizon is much more comparable to real life than AC

Mr Deap · Oct 13, 2020

bondyboy said:
Actually I believe Nicky said something like "if you want to drive fast in iRacing you have to drive like a girl yo! but in ACC you can drive like real life and attack, YO!"

When he tried ACC for the first time he was 8 sec off pace. According to kunos fanboys he can't drive & need to gitgud.

Again... people come to troll me when I claim it require a learning curve.

Kek700 · Oct 13, 2020

@dario993

This is an example of how i brake into a corner, not perfect I am sure, but it will do,
in gt3 I have no problem with noticeable understeer. ( or any car in AC )
Understeer, oversteer come to that are introduced both in simulation and the real world.
They do not exist, you have to create them.
I always use setup and altered driving to try and maintain as higher speed as I can with out either causing me problems with lap time.

Below is me entering the SPA "S" turn at the top of the hill, entry speed of about 170mph

Top trace brakes
Bottom trace steering input

Not sure which wheel you have, but as a general statement I always use a reasonable amount of torque ( 20% ) and damping ( 20% ) in the wheel to give the steering wheel some weight and with the consequence of that is you get the feeling of the car transmitted to the wheel.
It most certainly has nothing what so ever to do with how fast you are, just a gives you more sense of feel, seems to give a sense of the car.

Deleted member 963434 · Oct 14, 2020

i think you must find perfect balance between wheel weight and wheel max force/gain.
when i made this post it was june i have my DD for less than 2 weeks then, and i had wheel weight set too low and gain too hight so wheel was so light to turn and it get so hard to turn when cornering, and when i understeered it become so light again. now i have better settings and tis feels more natural and real life - like now so it was not AC ffb issue i know now. But physics issue im still not sure if any sim made it good. i think raceroom has it best as cars turn easily there, if you understeer there yo just have to lift off throttle a bit and maybe straighten wheel a bit and you good, and if yo oversteer its easier to catch slide.
but as Mr. Deap posted this video i didnt saw anything like than in any sims, that when car understeer it not only straightens but it should look to us like it turning opposite direction. now i know why. cause it losing centripetal force when understeers. if yo turning you turning not only cause you have wheels turned to direction you want to go but also it car mass goin that direction, thats centripetal force so if yo suddently understeer you not only losing turning force but also all centripetal force you had before understeer, thats why car should suddently go straight and from driver perspective it should look like it go opposite direction. maybe im wrong cause i never noticed it before, i shall test it tomorrow, but i think in all sims when understeering your car just slowly straightens. and it should straighten fast then go opposite direction, so my conclusion now is different like understeering in sims may be even easier than in real life

Kek700 · Oct 15, 2020

It is a driver induced problem, as a driver you main aim is to use it as an advantage, not an unexpected situation, this includes oversteer too.
Cars do not oversteer or understeer on sims or real life, it is created by the driver.
There are many ways of circumventing this problem.

bondyboy · Oct 16, 2020

Mr Deap said:
When he tried ACC for the first time he was 8 sec off pace. According to kunos fanboys he can't drive & need to gitgud.

Again... people come to troll me when I claim it require a learning curve.

Shock horror, real life race driver missing his inner ear and bum feedback is off pace when driving racing sim for first time.

Quickly adjusts, back up to pace, and then remarks on how he can drive in sim like he does his real car, yarp!

Mr Deap · Oct 16, 2020

It would be fine, only if the kid was 2~3 sec off pace, but nah, it's a full 8 sec on a car & track that he know very well as claimed on his own stream.

According to reputable source, called "simracers", claims that setup doesn't matter. I can't see anything else than an unintuitive handling being the problem.

Gevatter · Oct 19, 2020

So we've gone from perceived understeer in AC, to you not understanding the traction circle in AC, to Nikki Thiim being slow in ACC Beta? Do you need help moving that goalpost any further? Must be tiring doing that all the time.

Mr Deap · Oct 19, 2020

Stereo said:
What you're suggesting would be some kind of traction square - where you can simultaneously brake full force and corner full force if you wanted.

Aug 31, 2017

Source is from my own footage. This is exactly how I feel about the game since the last time I played & data actually show it. Cleared the in-game alien difficulty.

I bet all the top gamer of Assetto Corsa haves the traction circle is even more squarer than that & nobody want to admit.

Stereo · Oct 19, 2020

Your footage shows you using string theory though... as you steer your foot comes off the gas, happens every single corner, there's nowhere where you can brake 100% all the way to the apex.

mclarenf1papa · Oct 19, 2020

Stereo said:
Your footage shows you using string theory though... as you steer your foot comes off the gas, happens every single corner, there's nowhere where you can brake 100% all the way to the apex.

It's actually a great video because even the G readout shows him following the "string theory" really clearly.

Mr Deap · Oct 20, 2020

That's bomb diving & it also has a square traction circle. Whoever got that more square win.

Stereo said:
What you're suggesting would be some kind of traction square - where you can simultaneously brake full force and corner full force if you wanted. There'd be no need to trail brake, you would be on the brakes all the way to the apex, then instantly go all the way on throttle.

mclarenf1papa said:
It's actually a great video because even the G readout shows him following the "string theory" really clearly.

Seriously, stereo claim that the traction is almost square suggesting that's not trail braking.

String theory:

Brake in a straight line using maximum deceleration
Ease off the brakes before turn in
Turn into the corner
Reduce braking force as steering angle increases
Balance the car through the corner

Source: https://drivingfast.net/trail-braking/

Bomb Diving with the brake in AC

Brake in a straight line using maximum deceleration
Turn into the corner
Keeps your brake floored
When the car finally start to refuse to turn from the front, ease up the brake pressure
Keeps the load transfer at the front past the apex.(When the source of traction meets the apex, you can accelerate.)

Source: Assetto Corsa

The maneuver different.

Step 2 & 3 is what makes that square traction circle in AC to go faster than people who get trolled. Even cars without ABS that circle look square. Seriously I'm trolled to learn that it's a realistic technique by the fanbase.

mclarenf1papa · Oct 20, 2020

So sorry, which corners do you follow the bomb diving technique? The only one that you seem to is turn 1 and that's the worst-taken corner of the lap...at most you're at 25% brakes on entry in this video and you bleed off of them following "string theory" to the t. Hard to tell if you're not just trolling at this point.

Mr Deap · Oct 20, 2020

You're not digging

mclarenf1papa said:
So sorry, which corners do you follow the bomb diving technique? The only one that you seem to is turn 1 and that's the worst-taken corner of the lap...at most you're at 25% brakes on entry in this video and you bleed off of them following "string theory" to the t. Hard to tell if you're not just trolling at this point.

That's not proper trail braking. Also you keep forgetting that my data clearly show a square traction circle.

Here start at 3:15 & all AC fanboys doing wrong(including my AC conquest, lol).

KittX · Oct 20, 2020

Another point taken out of context. If you continue listening, the very next point he's listing is exactly the problem you're facing.

Oh yeah, and it's told by a guy with the Hoff on avatar, who enjoys cars driving by themselves.

mclarenf1papa · Oct 20, 2020

AC tires don't produce a square traction circle so I'm not entirely sure how this is even an argument...

With my last client (telemetry in the screenshot I posted a page back) I actually had to improve performance of the tires in combined slip braking scenarios versus a lot of cars in AC.

This is all just pseudoscientific nonsense.

Stereo · Oct 20, 2020

If you have to ease off the brakes before turn-in cause your car would oversteer, it's just not set up correctly, and I don't know why any racecar would be biased that far to the rear, it's not giving you more braking than being neutral at maximum straightline braking.

Mr Deap · Oct 20, 2020

mclarenf1papa said:
AC tires don't produce a square traction circle so I'm not entirely sure how this is even an argument...

With my last client (telemetry in the screenshot I posted a page back) I actually had to improve performance of the tires in combined slip braking scenarios versus a lot of cars in AC.

This is all just pseudoscientific nonsense.

AC is about square traction, bomb dive with the brake, rotate from the front, weird technique, weird understeer, no lift off oversteer.