Illegal mods, steer clear of them. Simracing604, we stand with you too.

[Marlonracer]

DISGUSTING!

 

[y0chang]

I am happy Mike's channel is looking like its safe because he put a lot of effort in making the channel. You aren't going to change ***TTY people, the best thing to do is ignore them, don't give them money, and keep a watch out in the future. I didn't realize how many AC downloads out there were conversions of commercial games or other modders.

 

[Case_]

He did not asked to downvote their videos but previously I explained my reasoning for doing so. And now am I part of the problem? I congratulate to you! Have you done something in this situation? Honest question, because appearantly I did something very wrong in your eyes, if I became part of the problem.

Yes, exactly. He didn't ask people to downvote their videos in response to the copyright strikes, because it's wrong, it's abuse of the rating system. You went and did it anyway. So yes, you have become part of the problem, because you have done a morally wrong thing of abusing a system meant for something else to try and get your point across, just like the modders did. They just did something worse, but the motivation and means were exactly the same. So yes, you have now become part of the same problem by your own actions.

And I really don't see how any of the "look what I did, what did you do, hmmm?" is in any way relevant. I was not aware there was a contest going on who does the most, or a quota on the number of expected actions to take, "pick at least three from the following list" kind of thing.

I can at least say that I did exactly what Mike asked for. If I took a tiny part in getting things back on track and helped Mike in keeping his channel, then I'm a happy man.

Good for you. But you just quite literally stated that you didn't do exactly what Mike asked for. So I'm not sure which one is it.

Look, it's OK to disagree but calling me out for my short post you quoted is insulting. Not a big deal though...

I can see how it is clearly not a big deal. I also have literally zero idea what part of me responding to your post is insulting to you or why. But if you feel insulted for reasons I don't understand because I responded to your post, then by all means, enjoy.

 

[kondor999]

I spoke with my wife about the person here who earlier claimed that he disputed a purchase from Simdream on PayPal and somehow his own PayPal account got "suspended" (presumably because SimDream has so much influence over a multi-billion dollar company like PayPal).

This sounded very suspect to me, so I ran it by my wife, who works very closely with PayPal and owns a large business with an account with them. She has been dealing with them for 12 years at this point, working on sales in the $20-80k per transaction range (yes, they handle such amounts routinely).

She stated flatly that this story is false. PayPal never suspends a buyer's account for simply disputing a purchase, *unless* there's a well-established pattern of abuse to start with.

I now suspect the person invented that story to scare people into not disputing their purchases from SimDream. The simple fact is that you, as a PayPal customer, have the right to dispute any purchase that involves fraudulent misrepresentation, and it is very much up to SimDream to prove otherwise.

If suddenly a large number of purchasers start saying exactly the same thing (that SimDream's content is stolen IP), the presumption will be that SimDream is at fault. You won't get your account suspended for telling the truth, even if PayPal decides not to intervene.

 

[aphidgod]

Yes, exactly. He didn't ask people to downvote their videos in response to the copyright strikes, because it's wrong, it's abuse of the rating system. You went and did it anyway. So yes, you have become part of the problem, because you have done a morally wrong thing of abusing a system meant for something else to try and get your point across, just like the modders did.

What utter nonsense.

Upvoting/downvoting on YouTube signifies nothing more than whether an individual viewer likes or dislikes the content. It's an opinion - it cannot be abused. If you don't like what SimDream does, downvoting their videos is completely valid. Just stop.

 

[Valenfield]

I'm sure many won't agree with me but honestly... I don't really care about this...

Actually the dude here went for it. Was it really necessary to publicly shame them? I don't think so, or at least could have been less harsh because let's be honest. Even if SDD gets banned or sued or anything like that, do you really think this will solve the issue of illegal modding? You must be a very delusional person to think that ripping mods will stop after this, after all this is exactly what about modding is... Bringing new content not available to the game. Just look at other games like NFS mods who even bring in the game F1 cars or the GTA mods or even COD maps being ported in other games. Are they seriously gonna ask for a license and all that crap now for a mere mod? Lol, not gonna happen...

IMO, ripping content from other games is here to stay and definitely not an issue for me if the mod is also made of good quality

 

[sikjar]

I now suspect the person invented that story to scare people into not disputing their purchases from SimDream. .....You won't get your account suspended for telling the truth, even if PayPal decides not to intervene.

Yeah, I thought the story was a bit strange too. And if the fraudulent seller should threaten legal action, I can't imagine they would get very far in any civilized country.

 

[MattGTX]

I'm sure many won't agree with me but honestly... I don't really care about this...

Actually the dude here went for it. Was it really necessary to publicly shame them? I don't think so, or at least could have been less harsh because let's be honest. Even if SDD gets banned or sued or anything like that, do you really think this will solve the issue of illegal modding? You must be a very delusional person to think that ripping mods will stop after this, after all this is exactly what about modding is... Bringing new content not available to the game. Just look at other games like NFS mods who even bring in the game F1 cars or the GTA mods or even COD maps being ported in other games. Are they seriously gonna ask for a license and all that crap now for a mere mod? Lol, not gonna happen...

IMO, ripping content from other games is here to stay and definitely not an issue for me if the mod is also made of good quality

The MAIN problem here is not exactly SDD ripping content but rather the fact that they used false copyright claims whilst trying to take down Mike's channel.

Ripping content is neither something new nor something that is going to end anytime soon and this was already pointed out by some other users in this thread and it is highly likely that SDD (and some other similar teams) will only lay low for the time being and go back to do what they do.

 

[MattGTX]

Yes, exactly. He didn't ask people to downvote their videos in response to the copyright strikes, because it's wrong, it's abuse of the rating system. You went and did it anyway. So yes, you have become part of the problem, because you have done a morally wrong thing of abusing a system meant for something else to try and get your point across, just like the modders did. They just did something worse, but the motivation and means were exactly the same. So yes, you have now become part of the same problem by your own actions.

Honestly, this doesn't make sense as the like/dislike system in Youtube was created so that the individual viewers could easily express their opinion regarding the videos.

@Vilmos Vas did not like Sim Dream's actions and thus he disliked their videos as those are actively used to promote a scam. A completely valid action, just as @aphidgod pointed out.

 

[aphidgod]

IMO, ripping content from other games is here to stay and definitely not an issue for me if the mod is also made of good quality

We could debate this point ad nauseum... but the real issue here, IMO, is the abuse of YouTube's system to silence critics as well as their track record of destroying communities (F1 Classics forum) who call them out and for using copyright claims to bully the actual creators they've stolen from out of their own work.

Ripping some sh-- models from Forza and tossing 60IQ physics onto them is a whole other debate, but the other stuff... super unacceptable. Toxic and antisocial, and ultimately destructive to the entire simracing ecosystem.

** Realizing after typing this that @MattGTX bascially said the exact same thing two posts above. Call this my way of agreeing wholeheartedly.

 

[MattGTX]

** Realizing after typing this that @MattGTX bascially said the exact same thing one post above. Call this my way of agreeing wholeheartedly.

Hahah what are the Odds
At the same time, we answered different comments whilst agreeing with each other

 

[Squared Circle]

"Problems usually don't get solved by making them bigger"

Really? There was thing called "World War 2", you may have heard of it

I know that you know the term "usually";-)

 

[Dethrone1427]

It's good to see things have returned to normal and we are now attacking one another again....

 

[Kenny Paton]

Hopefully we'll get some word from Mike soon.

 

[Vilmos Vas]

Yes, exactly. He didn't ask people to downvote their videos in response to the copyright strikes, because it's wrong, it's abuse of the rating system. You went and did it anyway. So yes, you have become part of the problem, because you have done a morally wrong thing of abusing a system meant for something else to try and get your point across, just like the modders did. They just did something worse, but the motivation and means were exactly the same. So yes, you have now become part of the same problem by your own actions.

What system am I abusing exactly when I dislike a video that I dislike? Dislikes have no direct effect on the outcome of the copyright strike. It is another way of telling potential customers that there must be something wrong with that business. It's not that difficult to understand, but let me explain it to you: I doubt that there is a huge crowd who are active fans of SDD on youtube. In fact, curently they have 790 subscribers which is obviously a small number. The average view numbers of their videos is between 500 and 1200 views. I wouldn't call that too much either. These videos are not for entertaining purposes. They are for marketing. My idea is that most viewers come from their shop, where these videos are present as demo materials. If a customer in the middle of a decision making process goes to their youtube channel and see those downvotes probably he/she will choose to research a bit more before actually buying anything from them. Those potential customers can be turned away from buying stolen stuff. Can you explain to me which part of this is morally questionable? Where can you see the similarities between my action and SDD abusing the copyright system? Speaking of morals... you try to show yourself as someone with high moral standards. I'd say your morals are rather strange, self-contradicting and twisted in this case (I don't say that you are a morally wrong person - I don't know you). By the way, I don't think youtube have a definition of their own voting system in the sense of telling people for what reasons can they like or dislike a video, so when you say "you have done a morally wrong thing of abusing a system meant for something else" I honestly don't know what are you refering to.

And I really don't see how any of the "look what I did, what did you do, hmmm?" is in any way relevant. I was not aware there was a contest going on who does the most, or a quota on the number of expected actions to take, "pick at least three from the following list" kind of thing.

No, there is no contest at all. You just seem to be very vocal about your and others' morals and it seems logical to me to look at actual deeds when it comes to morals. You know, it's easy to be an armchair moralist. It's just not quite convincing without actions.

Good for you. But you just quite literally stated that you didn't do exactly what Mike asked for. So I'm not sure which one is it.

Then read once again and slowly this time. I did exactly what Mike asked for, PLUS (this is not shouting, I just want to emphasize this word) I did something else, what I myselft found correct. You may not agree with this and it's OK but at least I gave you an explanation. If you counter my arguement with valid reasoning, you can convince me why downvoting is a bad idea. I'm waiting for your reasonings.

I can see how it is clearly not a big deal. I also have literally zero idea what part of me responding to your post is insulting to you or why. But if you feel insulted for reasons I don't understand because I responded to your post, then by all means, enjoy.

Not a big deal, because I slept well, I do my daily tasks, and so on, so your post does not effect me in any bad way. But I'm still saying, that calling out a fellow sim racer and saying that he's part of the problem is basically saying something like "you are just as bad as those thieves". I don't know you but I don't like to be called a thief, especially when I stood up for a cause which is clearly right in my eyes. If you don't understand this, then I can also question your morals. I just don't like to jump on people insisting that they are morally inferior only because I don't fully agree with them. In the case of SimDream, I have no problem calling them morally inferior because it is factually proven that they are.

SimRacing604 is one of my favourite yt channel and I would be upset if it had to shut down because of those shady thieves. What I stood up for was against SimDream's actions abusing the DMCA system (as you rightly pointed out) and their previous similar actions (think of the Bazza situation).

On another note: if this conversation is off topic, then we can continue it privately, I don't want to turn the thread away from the original track.

Edit: corrected some typos. I'm sure there are more. English isn't my mother tongue.

 

[DucFreak]

I'm sure many won't agree with me but honestly... I don't really care about this...
(...)
IMO, ripping content from other games is here to stay and definitely not an issue for me if the mod is also made of good quality

Damn right I won't agree with you - that's effing disgusting.

You and others like yourself are not just part of the problem, you are the reason for it to exhist.
So long as people are "gimme gimme" and keep on downloading (and even paying!) for ripped content, these clowns will always exhist to exploit others.
It's like the relation of junkies, drugs, and drug dealers.

Actually the dude here went for it. Was it really necessary to publicly shame them? I don't think so, or at least could have been less harsh because let's be honest. Even if SDD gets banned or sued or anything like that, do you really think this will solve the issue of illegal modding? You must be a very delusional person to think that ripping mods will stop after this, after all this is exactly what about modding is... Bringing new content not available to the game. Just look at other games like NFS mods who even bring in the game F1 cars or the GTA mods or even COD maps being ported in other games. Are they seriously gonna ask for a license and all that crap now for a mere mod? Lol, not gonna happen...

Less harsh? You gotta be kidding!
To be shamed is the least these morons deserve.
It seems that it hasn't sink on you yet but, this is pretty much on the verge of organized crime.
Exploiting content creators, be it the modders and mod-teams, or the professional devs involved in the original games from where content is being stolen from.
We're talking hundreds and thousands of hours (paid or not) of individuals' legit work being intentionally stolen (for profit or not) without any remorse.

Not sure how old are you, but that's a pretty darn immature, irresponsible and selfish aproach in a perspective of community or artistry, is it not?
It's almost offensive to someone like me, who too has seen content ripped off over the years.

Noone here is delusional about this being stopped once and for all, but NO.
That is definitely NOT what modding is about, it never was.

In modding, like any form of content creation, as is in art (and in life), respect for other people's stuff is something that is part of the individual's self, his/her principals, morals and ethics. And absolutely necessary to keep positive growth and peace in spaces shared with others (here or out there in the real world).
And those, like talent, you either have them or you don't.

 

[Stig's Portuguese Cousin]

Info on SimDream Development : they're restructuring behind the EX-Mods patreon page, which is a front for RTM Mods, managed by Aspec7878 (an user on Race Department). Same models, same typos in the TOS, even the same business description.
IF RD REALLY SUPPORTS SIMRACERS & SIMRACING604 REMOVE ANY MODS/SKINS RELATED TO SIM DREAM! LESS mods/skins here, less buyers!

 

[Cristian Luis]

I have posted these proposals here: https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ideas-to-mitigate-leeching-effectively.199563/


@Bram Hengeveld, please consider them. Especially the first one.

 

[SuperMonacoGP]

problem is, most if not all the people that buys from sdd, rtm or else are not part of rd nor other simracing communities, judging by the comments under their videos they seem to be all guys who discovered mods and simracing in general just recently and therefore got scammed very easily because of the lack of knowledge and experience. and i assume sdd knows that very well.
nobody with a minimum of experience would ever fall for their crap, let's be real guys.

 

[Martin Vindis]

I don't know why I'm surprised but even this thread is turning to a box of ass now. We (probably) did it guys, enjoy that feeling ffs.