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Horsma Raceway

Tracks Horsma Raceway 1.0

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This track has a great force-feedback feel to it.
I can actually feel quite a bit in the steering as the car transitions from cambered to off-cambered sections.
That down-hill to uphill crested section is a lot of fun.
Thank you.
 
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water spray works on the dry layouts and on other tracks but not on the wet layouts of this track
For the "water spray" or any other particles to appear in large quantities the traction has to be closer to "1". When you go "0.709" in "surfaces.ini" this causes the particles to disappear... It`s a paradox in the game. And another thing - the rain grip is around "0.88". Yours feels more like packed fresh snow.
I know that IRL statistics rates 0.65 the grip of the wet undamaged asphalt but AC physics is not using that scale. Going below 0.9 decreases grip at much higher rate and non-linear.
 
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Ghoults

Lasse Luisu
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2,077
For the "water spray" or any other particles to appear in large quantities the traction has to be closer to "1". When you go "0.709" in "surfaces.ini" this causes the particles to disappear... It`s a paradox in the game. And another thing - the rain grip is around "0.88". Yours feels more like packed fresh snow.
I know that IRL statistics rates 0.65 the grip of the wet undamaged asphalt but AC physics is not using that scale. Going below 0.9 decreases grip at much higher rate and non-linear.
The grip depends a lot on what kind of car you drive in ac and apart from having multiple versions it is impossible to get the grip right for all cars. Some cars like gt3 tend to be too slippery whereas mx5 is too grippy. As for the actual grip I adjusted the grip levels based on estimated lap time difference between wet and dry and used real life lap times as reference. For reference in bathurst the lap time was around 2:03.4 in the dry and 2:27.7 in the wet. In relative terms this is about 0.84 ratio when you compare dry to wet lap times. In other words the lap time in the dry is about 16% faster/lower. This correlates well with horsma in most cars except gt3. Ferrari 458 is 0.852 and the lola mod car is 0.819. Z4 gt3 is 0.625 and miata is 0.938. Ultra high downforce cars like f1 and lmp1 are probably even worse.

In the end it came down to decide whether I make the wet track for gt3 cars or cars with less downforce and grip (more historic race cars). If there is demand I could make another set of wet layouts with higher grip which would make it better for gt3 cars.
 
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real life lap times as reference
My approach to finding what "FRICTION=" is a wet track was much the same. Did it when adjusting the data for the Top Gear`s "Suzuki Liana". In the end it was the 0.88 friction that gave the closest match for lap times between 0.98 for dry Dunsfold and wet. Of course for consistency I used the AI driver enabling it by "ctrl+c" for every test run.
I can see your point for adjusting the grip as it is. Particles on "Horsma" work if you edit "surfaces.ini" for the road "DIRT_ADDITIVE=1" or at least "0.2".
Attached is one zipped "surfaces.ini" - quick sample of how your effort for creating many surfaces pays off with changes in spray. It`s from "Trophy", the wet layout.
 

Attachments

  • surfaces.7z.txt
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Ghoults

Lasse Luisu
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Changing to DIRT_ADDITIVE=1 changes grip for human drivers but does not affect the ai so that is not a solution.
 
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Changing to DIRT_ADDITIVE=1 changes grip for human drivers but does not affect the ai so that is not a solution.
No. That is not physics variable. It`s visuals only. And for comparison take a look at Fracasso`s wet mod, Godwood and every other wet layout. Spray depends on DIRT_ADDITIVE mostly. And it matters if CSP and Sol are enabled, and if CM uses custom weather particles or not.
 
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I wouldn't trust AI to be equally off pace at two very different grip levels.
 

Ghoults

Lasse Luisu
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No. That is not physics variable. It`s visuals only. And for comparison take a look at Fracasso`s wet mod, Godwood and every other wet layout. Spray depends on DIRT_ADDITIVE mostly. And it matters if CSP and Sol are enabled, and if CM uses custom weather particles or not.
It makes the tires dirty which reduces grip so it is very much a physics value :). Spray should come from shaders patch or SOL rain weather but I'd guess the low friction breaks that effect like you said.
 
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makes the tires dirty which reduces grip
I got curious about it and just did a test. On a "Suspension Test Track" used the flat clean surface in a FWD car to get a reading for sustained max lat "G" and then changed the dirt to "1". The lat "G" went down by 12%. You are right :)
Secondly I tried a short track, simple in terms of surfaces and sent AI hot-lapping. No change in lap times despite the dirt. You are right again which means us humans are handicapped whenever we see a dirty car with AI in it.
 
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I wouldn't trust AI to be equally off pace at two very different grip levels.
Brief and hopefully useful input on that from me - the AI dev app is assuring enough that training the robot to use the car in particular way is going to be repeated exactly the same in all conditions. Same slip angles, braking and gear changes, everything to the level of training. Because of that the overall "off pace" as a measure is constant in all conditions and is good for testing the track after the AI is trained not to crash.
 

Ghoults

Lasse Luisu
Premium
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So after 1.0 release I have been playing more ac recently and driven a lot more on other tracks. I'm starting to have second thoughts about the bumpiness so after all this time I might do a repaved version of the track. It would increase the layouts from 6 to 12 (!) as I'd need to do both wet and dry versions. Maybe newer tarmac for the repaved version as well instead of just. I know I shot this idea down before but after more thought I feel the bumpiness is too extreme. I still like it myself but I now feel I overdid it.

What do you think? Would you prefer to have a smoother version? Are there people who tried the track but just removed it or have not touched it since because it was too bumpy but liked it otherwise? I am not planning to make the surface glass smooth or redo the current track with a smooth surface. I'd just make just a resurfaced version with new smoother asphalt and have that as new layouts in addition to what is already there.
 

Mascot

Card-carrying mod whore
Messages
2,843
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So after 1.0 release I have been playing more ac recently and driven a lot more on other tracks. I'm starting to have second thoughts about the bumpiness so after all this time I might do a repaved version of the track. It would increase the layouts from 6 to 12 (!) as I'd need to do both wet and dry versions. Maybe newer tarmac for the repaved version as well instead of just. I know I shot this idea down before but after more thought I feel the bumpiness is too extreme. I still like it myself but I now feel I overdid it.

What do you think? Would you prefer to have a smoother version? Are there people who tried the track but just removed it or have not touched it since because it was too bumpy but liked it otherwise? I am not planning to make the surface glass smooth or redo the current track with a smooth surface. I'd just make just a resurfaced version with new smoother asphalt and have that as new layouts in addition to what is already there.
It's win-win if the smoother repaves are there as optional layouts - people can take it or leave it. Can't see any downside to this mate. Crack on!
 
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I really like the bumpiness of the track, but it limit's what I can drive/race here. Found it to be most enjoyable with A/FWD cars like the TT RS VLN, Primera BTCC. With stuff like GT3/4 I find it much less enjoyable. At the end of the day I'm more than happy with the track in it's current state, I really enjoy bumpy circuits. If you were to add smoother layouts I could see it being a much friendlier circuit for faster/stiffer race cars.
 
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So after 1.0 release I have been playing more ac recently and driven a lot more on other tracks. I'm starting to have second thoughts about the bumpiness so after all this time I might do a repaved version of the track. It would increase the layouts from 6 to 12 (!) as I'd need to do both wet and dry versions. Maybe newer tarmac for the repaved version as well instead of just. I know I shot this idea down before but after more thought I feel the bumpiness is too extreme. I still like it myself but I now feel I overdid it.

What do you think? Would you prefer to have a smoother version? Are there people who tried the track but just removed it or have not touched it since because it was too bumpy but liked it otherwise? I am not planning to make the surface glass smooth or redo the current track with a smooth surface. I'd just make just a resurfaced version with new smoother asphalt and have that as new layouts in addition to what is already there.

I LOVE the bumpiness, but we do only drive vintage cars with big springs and softish suspension. It's not a track for a modern F1 car though, but there are plenty of those around for people with that affliction. But as Mascot said, there would be no downside to repave it, as long as we still get to keep this version!
 
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second thoughts about the bumpiness
I find the current surface on par with KS`s "Spa" and "Nurburgring/Nordsleife" and got used to drive with loose grip on the steering to allow for the jerky movement and have my fun even in F1 cars. If you add more variety with smoother mesh you are welcome but I don`t have second thoughts about the current track. It`s good.
 
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Spray should come from shaders patch or SOL rain weather but I'd guess the low friction breaks that effect like you said.
Recently I dug up a way of practically reaching as low as 76.5 % grip on the track and spray. It can be done if in one of Sol`s wet weathers the file "tyre_smoke.lua" gets edited to read
Code:
local smoke_settings = get__Tyre_smoke_grass(true, 1)
and then that weather is selected upon track loading in combination with "Dusty" for track condition. Although in game it reads "Track grip - 85 %" when the "surfaces.ini" of the layout is set at 0.9 for the roads that results in 0.9x0.85=76.5 % and the spray still works. Below 0.9 a trigger condition (my guess - in AC engine) eliminates the tire squeal and the particles thus no spray gets generated.
I hope that helps you in the endeavor of avoiding the "DIRT_ADDITIVE" variable.
 
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This tracks is a masterpiece, just perfect (elevation, bump ...).
Thank you very much for what is one of my favorite circuits, especially with the Mod BTCC or 911 GT3 Cup.
The Trophy version is the most savage circuit of AC ! :)
 
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If I could change one thing, I would like to see a skin that puts people in the stands. I got an Idea to run an endurance race on a private server and having a crowd would make it feel all the more authentic. Otherwise, killer circuit my guy! Easily places in my top 5!
 
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