GTR 3

[janotronic23]

hope to see open wheelers like we see in european hillclimb races, osella pa20s or 30, F3000 and of course hillclimb time attack mode

 

[Andy_J]

I'm just going to wait and see but I am not filled with confidence that this will be a proper hard core GTR2 replacement. The hardcore sim experience just might not be there at the moment with the current devs in my opinion. But like I said, I'll wait and judge it on trying it. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. But in the meantime I am quite happy to play GTR2, Race 07, AMS, RF2, RF1 AC and RRE. Heck I even fire up Pcars on occasion.

 

[AadHofman]

could be great, but could also flop

Thank you Captain Obvious.

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

i really don't think consoleros want any dumbed down physics, they may want assists, which they can turn off if they feel confident at a later stage. But what they definately want, is great graphics, sounds, immersion and atmosphere combined with a great singleplayer experience ..... which all current sims on PC simply LACK.

i still don't know any SIM where i can drive a full championship with a balanced AI....on 2017

 

[David Dominguez]

I want a racing sim game to surpass or at least match the rF2 physics engine not a rehash of what already exists ages ago, as I already own most of the ISI spin-off games. ( along with most of the Formula 1 titles from Codemasters) I'm personally not looking for a prettier version of R3E or F1 2016 physics, I want the next level of "on the edge awe"

Then I think you have no other option than waiting for another ISI title.

 

[David Wright]

Actually, after playing rF2 today, ( I'm currently addicted to the Formula 1 1988 v0.93 mod ) I realized I don't mean what I said at all as far as my interest in what I'm looking for in a racing sim which sets me apart from the masses I suppose...I want a racing sim game to surpass or at least match the rF2 physics engine not a rehash of what already exists ages ago, as I already own most of the ISI spin-off games. ( along with most of the Formula 1 titles from Codemasters) I'm personally not looking for a prettier version of R3E or F1 2016 physics, I want the next level of "on the edge awe"

You could argue rF2 was a rehash of rF1.

However, I don't think GTR3 will be for you. Simbin are not trying to produce an rF3 or an AC2. They are trying to produce a GTR3 - firmly focused on producing a sim which simulates a real GT championship.

 

[David Dominguez]

You could argue rF2 was a rehash of rF1.

Please.

 

[James Cook]

I will file yet another attempt at releasing GTR3 under 'believe it when I see it'.

Hope it happens but keeping my expectations low.

 

[hitm4k3r]

You sure keep busy Paul, another enjoyable read, thanks.

This will have to compete with:
GT Sport
Project Cars 2
Assetto Corsa DLC / Updates
Forza 7

Graphically well-accomplished games will not be a problem, so I am not getting excited by the visuals.
AI needs to improve in racing games, simple things too like being able to race against your own ghost cars or fastest laps. Give us the ability to load up 3 as many people enjoy doing time trials of their own as much as online racing. Advances in the track surface or other elements affecting performance are welcomed too.

The race fan is going to be spoilt for choice looking at the above and that's not taking into account what Codemasters will bring with Dirt & F1.

I am not really sure whether I should be happy, when a Sim producers tries to compete with those products. I would rather see them to compete with the next ISI racing sim/extension of rF2, iRacing or the next Reiza game - maybe even AC2 - , because from my perspective those are the products that will really show where the sim racing genre is going and breach some boundaries. But we are all looking for different things I guess. All the games you listed, with the exception of AC wich is a pretty average sim, are nice racing games, but nothing that I would call a racing simulation.

Tbh, the interview doesn't show me anything that makes me more optimistic and the constant mention of the "Simulation aspect of CM F1 games" really worries me. Next to that I simply don't see them succeeding with delivering their planned stuff for three different platforms in less than two years and trying to please everyone. That time frame and the amount of goals and platforms is really what keeps my alarm bells ringing. Just hoping that it doesn't end up like the last GTR3. :/

 

[Blimey]

Without any core driving physics simulation engine designers or programmers this will just be another yawn-worthy arcade title - UR4 engine will make sure it looks pretty but beyond that, it will be arcade.

As many stones as I throw at the AC folks, the reality is that they created a driving simulation engine - GTR3 is not even being based on a driving physics simulation engine.

Don't see a reason why 2 people would agree or like it, but they said they will be using Racerooms physics and upgrade it heavily, making it more hardcore.

"Additionally we are going to improve on the physics found in RaceRoom Racing Experience and take over the best bits of the audio from RaceRoom as well."

 

[Boby Kim]

We all know what is going to happen. GTR3 announced and the crowd goes haywire...hype deluxe!
And then....it will be quiet....very quiet. And suddenly we are presented with R4E

 

[Mr Latte]

I am not really sure whether I should be happy, when a Sim producers tries to compete with those products. I would rather see them to compete with the next ISI racing sim/extension of rF2, iRacing or the next Reiza game - maybe even AC2 - , because from my perspective those are the products that will really show where the sim racing genre is going and breach some boundaries. But we are all looking for different things I guess. All the games you listed, with the exception of AC wich is a pretty average sim, are nice racing games, but nothing that I would call a racing simulation.

Tbh, the interview doesn't show me anything that makes me more optimistic and the constant mention of the "Simulation aspect of CM F1 games" really worries me. Next to that I simply don't see them succeeding with delivering their planned stuff for three different platforms in less than two years and trying to please everyone. That time frame and the amount of goals and platforms is really what keeps my alarm bells ringing. Just hoping that it doesn't end up like the last GTR3. :/

Times and the situation has changed...

For developers and publishers, those funding and backing the development of such titles.
It's all about sales/profit. Having a title that can appeal to hardcore and also casual players even console owners, especially now as developing across multiple platforms is much easier for them to do. Hence why we have seen PC developers and titles migrating also to console.

The unfortunate thing is, a hardcore specific sim for those seeking such are in the minority and a title that focuses more on this isn't going to sell as well, will it? I-racing as a format is supported by people paying subs to continue development and to go more in that direction but again it's a minority and had i-racing a visual update to the likes of these new titles, with more cars it would likely see a huge uptake in its subs.

Simcade isn't going anywhere but into more and more peoples homes I think. Compare Dirt Rally sales to Dirt 3.
Developers will, of course, deny they are neglecting more the hardcore fan or features, I'm sure it is a balance that is discussed during the development but I believe going more towards the "hardcore" has the potential for fewer sales not increased sales. E Sports or whatever has potential to grow the sales or future DLC will also appeal more to developers than having the most realistic or pure simulation. That's not to say new things won't appear but these will be over-hyped, just like Forza Puddles or this new direction of live/adapting track surfaces. Expect lots of hype on how amazing or game changing such are handed to us on a plate to lap up. (pun intended)
.
Just some personal thoughts....

 

[Celestiale]

All the games you listed, with the exception of AC wich is a pretty average sim, are nice racing games, but nothing that I would call a racing simulation.

He listed Project Cars 2, and you know already that it is no racing simulation? Interesting...
I'd definitely call Project Cars a racing simulation - driving cars with a wheel, and it behaves close enough to real life to be called simulation...otherwise there would not have been any simulation until 10 years ago, and that's obviously bullshit.
If you only call something a simulation that simulates everything physic related "right", well, then we'll never have a simulation...
You could also come from a different direction, and call Automobilista not a simulation..why? The graphics..they don't resemble real life even remotely close..whereas PC2 for example comes pretty close..vision is a part of simulation...
Come on, all this "my simulation is better then yours" is just BS..there are simulations for different kind of people, but just calling one "not a simulation" because it doesn't properly simulate one or two aspects of real life 99% right the very person would like to see/feel, that doesn't "unsimulate" it. Because all simulations out there have more then a few aspects, where they don't model real life 99% right.

That said, for me Forza Motorsport is not a simulation, just because it doesn't want to be one. Same for GT. As soon as developers actively build in codes that move away from real life physics, we can start calling something "not a simulation".

 

[Deleted member 130869]

Good games usually sell well sometimes without the help of too much marketing, except RBR as an example. We've seen before games that have done well so there's no need to keep saying it needs to cater to this or that.

It's disappointing to see so many mentions of hardcore without either apparent understanding of the word, or the actual ability to drive something reasonably accurately simulated that is not an easy-peasy modern GT or FWD low-powered cars. I must be very blind because the proper cars that may be more challenging get absolutely no interest online. You can confirm that with servers on the main games and how empty or non-existant they are.

Make it a good package and that's over half the battle. Console does well for publishers because people don't buy physical copies of pc games, games supposedly run well and optimized on counsoles without risking compatibility, and publishers get a large cut of the price. And you don't need additional expenses like a wheel.

Back specifically on GTR3, I just want a game that can be my gaming reference when I want to race. Offline and online, so AC, rF2 or AMS can be put to rest and so I can find an alternative to GTP as league racing there is dying.

 

[hitm4k3r]

It is quite clear that developers have to earn money and pay their bills. What I don't understand why it is so difficult for devs nowadays to set some realistic goals and time frames. I don't question that something like a proper GTR3 is possible, I simply doubt that it is possible in the foreseen timeframe. Why not develop two different sims based on the same base tech, a console version to gain some money in short time frame and then build up on it and build a proper simulation with next gen physics and a proper tyre mode. I just don't see it happen, all at the same time. But good luck to them developing a physcis engine that is anywhere near Kunos, Reiza or Studio 397/ISI in one year, even when they build upon what they had with RRE. Wich is on the lower end of the scale right now.

 

[Alex72]

Agree. That's the line that got me the most worried. F1 2016 and simulation - talk about contradiction in terms.
The single most disappointing game regarding physics I ever tried (and unfortunately bought). I have given it several tries but I can't stand more than 2 minutes of driving before I quit the game - the handling is a worse experience than try to knit with boxing gloves . Don't get me wrong - I so much want Codies to succeed and give us a proper F1 game but I've lost all my confidence in them,
If SimBin wants something to compare with and aspire to, play AC, RRE, GTR2 and Automobilista instead of that poor excuse of a game.

And rFactor2. But i dont think the physics will be that detailed. The guys hired from all those companies like EA, id, Turn10 etc makes me think of color, arcade, fun, cool UI's, gamepads etc. It doesnt make me think "simulation". But i will have a cautious optimism. The features sounds great. The graphics im sure will dazzle us and the sounds should be superb. If the physics is simple-ish though then it wont be the product for me but im sure it will do well and give the devs good business.

 

[hitm4k3r]

He listed Project Cars 2, and you know already that it is no racing simulation? Interesting...
I'd definitely call Project Cars a racing simulation - driving cars with a wheel, and it behaves close enough to real life to be called simulation...otherwise there would not have been any simulation until 10 years ago, and that's obviously bullshit.
If you only call something a simulation that simulates everything physic related "right", well, then we'll never have a simulation...
You could also come from a different direction, and call Automobilista not a simulation..why? The graphics..they don't resemble real life even remotely close..whereas PC2 for example comes pretty close..vision is a part of simulation...
Come on, all this "my simulation is better then yours" is just BS..there are simulations for different kind of people, but just calling one "not a simulation" because it doesn't properly simulate one or two aspects of real life 99% right the very person would like to see/feel, that doesn't "unsimulate" it. Because all simulations out there have more then a few aspects, where they don't model real life 99% right.

That said, for me Forza Motorsport is not a simulation, just because it doesn't want to be one. Same for GT. As soon as developers actively build in codes that move away from real life physics, we can start calling something "not a simulation".

The most important aspect of a racing simulation are the physics, tyre model and vehicle dynamics. Everything else is secondary and something that belongs to the category of immersion or extended features. Don't get me wrong, I also want to have some bells and whistels, but you can have a simulation of a BMW M3, where the car looks like a box and sounds like a vacuum cleaner, yet the driving aspects can all be there and offering a sensational close to RL experience. Project Cars didn't do this and I am not holding my breath for SMS to create a proper physics model for the next iteration of their game with 140 cars or how much they have planned. I am actually looking forward to whether they have fixed some of the basic flaws from their first game, where physics simulation went bullocks. But let's give them a chance, shall we? SMS never dissapoints when it comes to physcis in a racing game/sim

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

All good products start with an idea and a solid plan.

Typical that some hats always see the negative side of things first.

We've seen some mouthwatering screenshots. We know the S3 guys build a proper simulation with R3E with more official series you have seen in other games in recent years. KW can finance whatever game he wants if he wishes.

What can possibly be wrong with announcing, planning and executing the creation of GTR3?

Some people really need to drink less vinegar during their meals and relax a little.

We are getting more and more racing games each day. Be happy with all the choice you have.

 

[David Dominguez]

And maybe others should accept that other people may have a different view.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

The my sim is better than yours discussion is getting old now and hasn't got much to do with different views. It's a pointless discussion without facts that never ends and nobody wins.