AC GT3 @ Okayama - Sun 19th Jan 2020

[HF2000]

########################## from John:
Re the GT3 AC races, it is a thought provoker I still think there's plenty of room for them with careful choice of tracks 'n format (due to the low number of tracks in ACC), and we've not lost that many drivers to ACC GT3; of the last 4 events for example, well under 25% of drivers used to be in AC GT3, and some of those stopped racing Sunday's AC events before ACC came along too.
##########################

I agree. AC is chosen by the RD community as the most favorite sim so that says something.
In my christmas holiday I spend quite some time with ACC in online races but somehow it doesn't appeal to me like AC with the GT3 cars. I like the rating stuff and the competition element but in the end it's the racing experience itself that counts.

 

[Raresch]

If we are still debating GT3's I have a question for @HF2000 and @JoelK as I know you two have driven this care before.
Sometimes, I feel like the car is sliding, I overcorrect in the other direction, but I actually make the car steer very aggressively in the other direction. It's like false oversteer. I hope you know what I mean because I don't know otherwise ) Do you have this feeling? how do you overcome it?

 

[Kek700]

Usually a sign of to little camber.

 

[HF2000]

If we are still debating GT3's I have a question for @HF2000 and @JoelK as I know you two have driven this care before.
Sometimes, I feel like the car is sliding, I overcorrect in the other direction, but I actually make the car steer very aggressively in the other direction. It's like false oversteer. I hope you know what I mean because I don't know otherwise ) Do you have this feeling? how do you overcome it?

Raresch, do you mean the effect of suddenly changing from understeer tot oversteer? It was really strong in the 911 and I didn't find a way to mitigate it. So I switched to first the 650 and then with a setup from Joel to the R8. Now there's still this effect but not as fierce and most of the times I can correct it before going off track.

 

[HF2000]

Usually a sign of to little camber.

Thanks Ernie, front wheels or rear or both?

 

[Kek700]

which ever end causes the problem, you can worry about balancing the car front to back later.
obviously going into this with limited information, if I get a unexpected slid front or rear that seems strange, not driver induced, I start with increasing the camber if it is a repeatable issue.

 

[Kek700]

Spent a bit of time setting it up, ( trying ) what a strange car to work with.

 

[Raresch]

I feel like it is going to oversteer to the right, but when I countersteer, the car just goes in the other direction like it was nothing. Like it didn't oversteer in the first place.

 

[Kek700]

Post your setup @Raresch

took me quite a while to shave 1 second off from standard,
Full of contradictions for me, unable to easily go in a certain direction. Certainly not a car that suits me.

 

[Raresch]

Post your setup @Raresch

took me quite a while to shave 1 second off from standard,
Full of contradictions for me, unable to easily go in a certain direction. Certainly not a car that suits me.

I'll do when I reach home, around 17:00 GTM

 

[Raresch]

@Kek700 naming them is not so clear ) I usually note the changes in the name

 

[RobertR1]

@Raresch I did a full stint in your setup so this is fresh feedback. I've not driven the car ever before so I don't know what stock is. I set the track conditions similar to the race.

Here's the replay from the stint: https://**********/s/RBY3MwbDZxNnM2bGdneTdz So you can see all my inputs and driving.

I was trying to find a balance between tossing the car around but still running a decent enough pace because how a car behaves at pace is what matters. My pace was in the 1:30's

I noticed a few things:
- First the car feels really heavy. It has good initial turn in but then gives up front end grip mid corner and exit out
- At corner entry, the front end is so fast that the back comes around esp if you're loaded up with and trailing it in
- I found the car a lot more "catchable" than the 650s. I don't think I spun it once but made sure to have a lot of opposite lock slides to see how the car behaves
- I noticed the front of the car does a notable lift when you transition off brakes or onto throttle. This helps create the mid corner and exit understeer which then can lead to oversteer
- The brakes don't feel right. The car slow downs decent but doesn't trail into the corner consistently. It seems to overload the front

A good example of all this is the turn 2. I can turn the car into the left curb just with a lift and it'll dart it but then the grip is gone and it's a struggle to get the power down. If I slow down the car first to get on the gas early the rear squats, front lifts and it's the same issue again.

Obviously I have very little experience with the car (15 laps now lol) so I could be full of it but it's always interesting for me to try out different cars. While I can describe what I feel in detail, I know nothing about what to change to fix it so no input there.

https://acstuff/s/RBY3MwbDZxNnM2bGdneTdz

EDIT: add .ru after "acstuff and that's the link. it's from content manager.

 

[RobertR1]

Ok I'm having a bit too much fun with. So I compared the stock setup to yours and I prefer the stock one more for my driving style. It still has similar characteristics to your but more controllable for me. I changed the diff to 10/40 as the stock diff was killing rear tires without going fast.

I moved the brake balance forward to 68% as that let me trail it in without it coming around as fast esp in T1 and the hairpin before the back straight. Car has good potential for sure.

Driving is like food though. Everyone's got their own taste so don't assume what one person likes will work for the other.

I do wish it felt more nimble not boat like.

 

[Kek700]

What track temps are you running, mine is at 29 deg, soft tyres get fried at this temp.
Still with tyres in the red can do decent lap times. I actually like the way Raresch car is setup.
It is far more understeer for me than oversteery, will spend a bit more time with it tomorrow.
Still trying to understand the front washing out, not sure if it’s psychological, it seems to demand a lot of steering input, then the slip angles become too much and it washes out.
Will persevere until I need some help, the car just seems to have a characteristic that it refuses to give up.
Robert you said about food, it not to my taste, also just read your last statement, it is boat like. Has very much the GTR feel, but I have put loads of effort into setting that up.
Funnily tried the GTR at this circuit when I last raced there, abandoned it for the 650S, i was naturally much quicker in that.
Your summation I am glad to say is 100% how I saw it for the few laps I did, as I said it has characteristics it refuses to give up with setup, I will have a go at it this afternoon, find it a challenge, sad git that I am.

Roberts Quote....

- I noticed the front of the car does a notable lift when you transition off brakes or onto throttle. This helps create the mid corner and exit understeer which then can lead to oversteer

......

Just out of interest, put front rebound up 3 or 4 notches, and put rear bound up a similar amount.
Try that, I am at the stage we’re I have only done 3 or 4 laps in it, what with formula Agile last night.
Hope it does not make the front or rear stick down permanently.

 

[Kek700]

Just noticed track temps were 25 deg C, that explains the tyres.

 

[RobertR1]

@Kek700 happy to try out your setup after you're done with it. I enjoy driving different setups to see what differences I can notice and feel. It's a great learning opportunity to see how well I can adapt.

 

[Raresch]

Ok I'm having a bit too much fun with. So I compared the stock setup to yours and I prefer the stock one more for my driving style. It still has similar characteristics to your but more controllable for me. I changed the diff to 10/40 as the stock diff was killing rear tires without going fast.

I moved the brake balance forward to 68% as that let me trail it in without it coming around as fast esp in T1 and the hairpin before the back straight. Car has good potential for sure.

View attachment 345394

Driving is like food though. Everyone's got their own taste so don't assume what one person likes will work for the other.

I do wish it felt more nimble not boat like.

Well, Yeah. I like the understeer in a car. I really don't like the end jumping around. Still, the R8 seems to have some kind of self rotation, so that's why I like. This means I end up overdriving it?

- I noticed the front of the car does a notable lift when you transition off brakes or onto throttle. This helps create the mid corner and exit understeer which then can lead to oversteer

Yes. Exactly that. And when I correct the oversteer, I end up in the wall on the other side. Sometimes I catch it. but it's more like going from 130km/h to 60km/h to stop it on the track

 

[Kek700]

Not sure you will like my setup.

the best I can say is that's is how "I" would drive it, fastest for me by quite a margin.

Not as quick as my Nissan GT-r but that has the refinement in it that this setup lacks, in my book it is 95% there.

I get a suspicion that you will HATE it.

I can get a more consistent laps from it though than the Nissan, turns in better.

my beloved Nissan is much kinder on it's soft tyres though.


cannot get rid of the tyres washing out, at the moment I see it as something you live with, very neurtral car for me
very difficult to get into trouble with it, apart from wheels on grass,

 

[RobertR1]

Not sure you will like my setup.

Thanks Ernie. I did the same treatment here as Raresch's. 1 stint. No warm-up or restarts. Drive to empty.

My full replay.
https://acstuff/s/RBdmVlZGEzczlxMjlodzIy add .ru after the "acstuff" piece

Best time and theoretical:

I think it's a really good and safe race setup. I was easily the most consistent with it with just cranking out 1:30 flat lap after lap. I do think the setup is more towards race pace and distance vs outright speed which makes sense since that's what you always focus on.

The rear end is very planted everywhere and if it does go, it's almost impossible to lose it properly. You don't need fast hands to catch it. Unfortunately, the front end is where it gives up the time. You need to be *very* precise with the front to get absolute speed out of it. Even a slight push leads to a lot of lost time while you wait for the front end to bite again.

I tried being aggressive after cutting some 29's but I was punished brutally for it with lost time. I do think with more time, that setup is good for mid 29's at this track in these conditions but It'll be hard to go beyond that for me. Overall though, it's really stable and confidence inspiring. You just need to know that you need to drive it right under the limit to maximize it's potential.

How's that for a wall of BS! lol I've enjoyed testing these setups out. It's impressive how different a car can feel and likes to be driven while still maintaining it's core tendencies.

 

[Kek700]

Would like some feed back when you both can, especially interested because on one hand there is our Alien Robert, even he admits most of the time he runs a nearly standard setup, so that makes it for me doubly interesting and @Raresch who is
our up and coming driver, who now has some really good pace.

This would be the setup, with some refinement that I would run, only making small adjustments depending on the circuit. This was setup on Brands Hatch GP circuit for obvious reasons of familiarity, managed a 1-23-0.9 with this would have been in the mid 23’s but had a love affair with some grass.

I see no reason apart from tyre temps that it would fit into the Okayama circuit if my memory of this circuit serves me correctly.