Formula RaceRoom 90 Coming to R3E Next Update

[Paul Jeffrey]

Sector3 Studios have confirmed their latest open wheel car is coming to the sim - rejoice historic racing fans!

Although the FR90 is a 'fantasy' design, it doesn't take much imagination to make the connection between the FR90 and very early 1990's era Formula One machinery - much to the joy of fans of historic Grand Prix racing.

Coming in three distinct flavours - V8, V10 and V12, the FR90 delivers some incredible audio thanks to the efforts for @anthony monteil and Sector3, as well as producing a very raw and entertaining driving experience behind the wheel.. as anyone who watched Grand Prix racing in the early 1990's would undoubtedly expect from this sort of machine.

Although no exact release date has been given for when this new DLC will drop, Sector3 have confirmed it will be made available alongside the upcoming update - expected to drop for the sim as early as next week.

Stay tuned to the RaceDepartment YouTube and Twitch channel in the coming days for a new 'Talk n Drive' with these awesome cars..


RaceRoom Racing Experience is available exclusively for PC.

Head over to the RaceRoom sub forum here at RaceDepartment for the latest and greatest from the Sector3 Studios developed racing simulation.

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[Kenny Paton]

There is no reason people not interested and/or with no painting skills use a lot of energy proving they are so against any possibility for painting creativity in Raceroom

Not just skins, I like the fact that the whole game is locked in and I think is likely to remain so. There are plenty of others where creators can display their skills so to turn your question around why so much energy over the one game that doesn't allow it.
The lack of customer modability is probably in the main due to the games history, but as a side effect it remains pirate free.

 

[Alex72]

Yeah i never understood the licensing. Sure, Money, but letting people add these cars and tracks in games and simulators can only be good PR. Just make sure the titles are serious and not some cash grab garbage games. As long as the Products are well done and put in a positive light.

F1: YOU HAVE MONEY! Let us have some fun will ya!!!

 

[BrunoBæ]

Not just skins, I like the fact that the whole game is locked in and I think is likely to remain so. There are plenty of others where creators can display their skills so to turn your question around why so much energy over the one game that doesn't allow it.
The lack of customer modability is probably in the main due to the games history, but as a side effect it remains pirate free.

Without patronizing Kenny then there is absolutely no argumentation in your post/answer.

1. You "like" the fact the game is locked.
2. Why using energy over the only game(!) that doesnt allow custom paint?
3. Because of locked paints the game remains pirate free.

1. So if you didnt "like" it then what?
2. Because its a good game that could give a lot of its users more enjoyment. And probably get new users.
3. The 2 things (custom paints vs pirating) has no causal relation. Just ask iRacing or other games which allow custom paints.

 

[Luke Maney]

Poor sounds. They all sound very thin and digital. I'll expand:

• The cars should have a thicker, fuller, meatier sound so that they sound like they are roaring and ear-bleeding but these sound so thin and gentle.

• The sounds are too airy and buttery-smooth.

• These cars have tons of bass in real life. I read from a guy who saw these race in full anger at 1990s F1 races that people would be very surprised with the power of bass and amount of different bass tones these cars have. They said the Ferrari V12 surprised with how much crazy bass sounds it had in real life.

• The sound when the car passes the camera is absolutely terrible. After the car passes the camera the cars sound even more weak and simple. The car sounds so gentle and soft when it flys by the camera and the pitch-change as well as tone-change of the fly-by sound verrrryyyyyyy computerized.

• It doesn't sound like there are a lot of different sounds simultaneously. It sounds like there is just maybe one sound playing. There needs to be many, many more layers/depth/complexity to the sounds. There should be many different tones and pitches to the engine sounds. It just sounds way too simplistic and computerized.

• Even off-throttle, the cars sound too weak. Eg. The V12 should have a very different tone and pitch especially when off-throttle at the middle revs. The downshifts sound like they are too low RPM. Maybe the RPM of the downshift is fine but both the pitch and tone/s at those RPMs sound poor.

• When a car is off-throttle and then gets on the throttle, you don't hear that burst of energy. In real life, you hear a burst of noise smacking you in the face when you go from off-throttle to on-throttle. You can notice this in general driving but also the downshift blips, they sound so weak.

• The cars need to sound much rougher but also they need to sound more dynamic. At the moment, the sounds sound too simplistic and computerized.

I think part of this may be due to technical aspects of the sound engine itself. Having said that, you can do a lot of good "tricks" with just sound samples on their own so I feel also the sound samples could use lots of improvement.

I love what RaceRoom is trying to do so kudos to them in their attempts. I love their passion for sound but I'm extremely disappointed with this final result. I was expecting much more.


P.S. The cars' physics look so static (I notice this all the time in R3E but other sims too). There were hardly any sorts of movements in that cool 1990s style replay at the top of Eau-Rouge. The car almost looked like a board floating over the track, very computerized looking.

I think they sound good and I have seen them in person...Long Beach GP 1977, 79, 2007 (Minardi F1 and Champcar/ALMS) and COTA 2012 (F1).

 

[Kenny Paton]

Because of locked paints the game remains pirate free.

I did say that was a side effect.

The lack of customer modability is probably in the main due to the games history

That is probably the most important reason, whether I wanted mods or not.
If the skins were only on the creators HD how would that work in mp and of course lan events at tracks are the bread and butter for KWS's bankrolling S3.

 

[anthony monteil]

Poor sounds. They all sound very thin and digital. I'll expand:

• The cars should have a thicker, fuller, meatier sound so that they sound like they are roaring and ear-bleeding but these sound so thin and gentle.

• The sounds are too airy and buttery-smooth.

• These cars have tons of bass in real life. I read from a guy who saw these race in full anger at 1990s F1 races that people would be very surprised with the power of bass and amount of different bass tones these cars have. They said the Ferrari V12 surprised with how much crazy bass sounds it had in real life.

• The sound when the car passes the camera is absolutely terrible. After the car passes the camera the cars sound even more weak and simple. The car sounds so gentle and soft when it flys by the camera and the pitch-change as well as tone-change of the fly-by sound verrrryyyyyyy computerized.

• It doesn't sound like there are a lot of different sounds simultaneously. It sounds like there is just maybe one sound playing. There needs to be many, many more layers/depth/complexity to the sounds. There should be many different tones and pitches to the engine sounds. It just sounds way too simplistic and computerized.

• Even off-throttle, the cars sound too weak. Eg. The V12 should have a very different tone and pitch especially when off-throttle at the middle revs. The downshifts sound like they are too low RPM. Maybe the RPM of the downshift is fine but both the pitch and tone/s at those RPMs sound poor.

• When a car is off-throttle and then gets on the throttle, you don't hear that burst of energy. In real life, you hear a burst of noise smacking you in the face when you go from off-throttle to on-throttle. You can notice this in general driving but also the downshift blips, they sound so weak.

• The cars need to sound much rougher but also they need to sound more dynamic. At the moment, the sounds sound too simplistic and computerized.

I think part of this may be due to technical aspects of the sound engine itself. Having said that, you can do a lot of good "tricks" with just sound samples on their own so I feel also the sound samples could use lots of improvement.

I love what RaceRoom is trying to do so kudos to them in their attempts. I love their passion for sound but I'm extremely disappointed with this final result. I was expecting much more.


P.S. The cars' physics look so static (I notice this all the time in R3E but other sims too). There were hardly any sorts of movements in that cool 1990s style replay at the top of Eau-Rouge. The car almost looked like a board floating over the track, very computerized looking.

I noted all what you listed.
Be sure I'll always try to improve the R3E sounds in every way I can.

As for the FR90 sounds, these are the best I could do for now but I still hope to be able to improve them further later as it happened for most of the cars in the game.

Sound development is a perpetual learning and an infinite quest for perfection/realism/accuracy etc

 

[BrunoBæ]

If the skins were only on the creators HD how would that work in mp and of course lan events at tracks are the bread and butter for KWS's bankrolling S3.

At least principally its very simple - even the ancient forerunner for iRacing the famous NR2003 used it.
1. Driving MP the online car "roster" is forced by the server - only 1 cars paint is customizeable/changeable (and viewable) on the clients side.
2. I dont know how a LAN event is executed in Raceroom but in NR2003 it was the PC getting the role as server that just like the server in normal MP forced the roster - and each individual client could view either his own custom paint or the car paint in the server rosters version.

Ok I havent actually read the code but at least principally its very simple - and have been used at least since 2003.

 

[Isaac Chavira]

I don’t think we should judge the sounds from a recorded YouTube video. I’m sure they will sound infinitely better on your machine. I like all three cars. They all have the same power. I’m just wondering what the differences in quirks will be between all of them.

 

[Yetch]

Huge fan of modding but far bigger fan of RR's quality as well as quantity approach, more than happy for things to stay just as they are. I don't get this desire for every Sim to be exactly the same, variety is the spice of life!
RR have always done things their own way and although it's been a Rollercoaster ride the dedication of S3's small team is now coming to fruition. RR can hold its own in the Sim market, has never been more popular and all without modding. The fact that RR is locked down, has no piracy and maintains full control over liveries, just makes it more appealing to manufacturers, which in turn, can only help in increasing the likelihood of seeing more and more quality marques coming to the Sim.
Isn't knocking someone who is unique an ism these days?

 

[Spinelli]

I noted all what you listed.
Be sure I'll always try to improve the R3E sounds in every way I can.

As for the FR90 sounds, these are the best I could do for now but I still hope to be able to improve them further later as it happened for most of the cars in the game.

Sound development is a perpetual learning and an infinite quest for perfection/realism/accuracy etc

I never expected a member of the R3E dev-team to even read that let alone reply. I commend you for your humbleness and politeness to my post which may have been a little harsh (I really, really love sound).

One quick piece of advice. Do not use the real life sounds too much unless they are from old races. All those modern track-day videos all over youtube (especially the red V12 cars) are all detuned and massively rev-limited much lower. If you listen to those same cars in videos of real grand prix in the 90s, you can hear quite a difference compared to the modern track-day videos.

 

[anthony monteil]

No worry, I know these engines very well and I've heard them irl with their normal rev limit.

Fortunately, there's a lot of old video material for these cars and some of them have a good sound quality.
So, it's usually not a problem to grab their sounds with the needed rage, like in this video in exemple :

Now, don't expect to hear their exact real life sound in R3E.
It's almost impossible to replicate the fury of these engines in a racing game.

You can get close to the YT videos intensity, but you'll never reach the ear-drum overload that these cars
were causing in this era.

There is this very special grain and distortion that you can only experience with a full throttle F1 in open air delivering over 140 dB (very few modern race cars reach that number nowadays).
These sound levels were quite usual at that time, but you hardly realize how loud it was until you hear them again today.
I also love the way the engine sound is gradually changing along the laps, it's totally alive
People who saw these F1 in the 90's and early 2000's certainly know what I'm talking about

 

[Aki Korhonen]

Poor sounds. They all sound very thin and digital. I'll expand:

• The cars should have a thicker, fuller, meatier sound so that they sound like they are roaring and ear-bleeding but these sound so thin and gentle.

• The sounds are too airy and buttery-smooth.

• These cars have tons of bass in real life. I read from a guy who saw these race in full anger at 1990s F1 races that people would be very surprised with the power of bass and amount of different bass tones these cars have. They said the Ferrari V12 surprised with how much crazy bass sounds it had in real life.

• The sound when the car passes the camera is absolutely terrible. After the car passes the camera the cars sound even more weak and simple. The car sounds so gentle and soft when it flys by the camera and the pitch-change as well as tone-change of the fly-by sound verrrryyyyyyy computerized.

• It doesn't sound like there are a lot of different sounds simultaneously. It sounds like there is just maybe one sound playing. There needs to be many, many more layers/depth/complexity to the sounds. There should be many different tones and pitches to the engine sounds. It just sounds way too simplistic and computerized.

• Even off-throttle, the cars sound too weak. Eg. The V12 should have a very different tone and pitch especially when off-throttle at the middle revs. The downshifts sound like they are too low RPM. Maybe the RPM of the downshift is fine but both the pitch and tone/s at those RPMs sound poor.

• When a car is off-throttle and then gets on the throttle, you don't hear that burst of energy. In real life, you hear a burst of noise smacking you in the face when you go from off-throttle to on-throttle. You can notice this in general driving but also the downshift blips, they sound so weak.

• The cars need to sound much rougher but also they need to sound more dynamic. At the moment, the sounds sound too simplistic and computerized.

I think part of this may be due to technical aspects of the sound engine itself. Having said that, you can do a lot of good "tricks" with just sound samples on their own so I feel also the sound samples could use lots of improvement.

I love what RaceRoom is trying to do so kudos to them in their attempts. I love their passion for sound but I'm extremely disappointed with this final result. I was expecting much more.


P.S. The cars' physics look so static (I notice this all the time in R3E but other sims too). There were hardly any sorts of movements in that cool 1990s style replay at the top of Eau-Rouge. The car almost looked like a board floating over the track, very computerized looking.

sounds like you are better makeing sounds or even game. look at the mirror and see for yourself.still you are drinking pepsi and driving simcade pcars2.

 

[Spinelli]

No worry, I know these engines very well and I've heard them irl with their normal rev limit.

Fortunately, there's a lot of old video material for these cars and some of them have a good sound quality.
So, it's usually not a problem to grab their sounds with the needed rage, like in this video in exemple :

Now, don't expect to hear their exact real life sound in R3E.
It's almost impossible to replicate the fury of these engines in a racing game.

You can get close to the YT videos intensity, but you'll never reach the ear-drum overload that these cars
were causing in this era.

There is this very special grain and distortion that you can only experience with a full throttle F1 in open air delivering over 140 dB (very few modern race cars reach that number nowadays).
These sound levels were quite usual at that time, but you hardly realize how loud it was until you hear them again today.
I also love the way the engine sound is gradually changing along the laps, it's totally alive
People who saw these F1 in the 90's and early 2000's certainly know what I'm talking about

I agree with you. Yes, the changing engine sounds being different all throughout the lap, totally alive. This is why I say that there should be a team (or at least 1 guy) dedicated to sound in all racing games. Not just sound samples but the core sound engine itself. With more and more sophisticated sound engines (along with sound-physics connection), we can replicate more and more of all the different sound dynamics happening in real-life and videos like that.

Apart from allll the different noises being emitted from real-life cars, there are also all sorts of further changes to the sound due to the environment such as walls, mountains, buildings, different materials like stone, steel, wood, temperature, humidity, etc.. There are games from the 1990s and even mid-2000s that were focusing on sound engine dynamics through the use of the old EAX 5.0. Sounds would change depending on walls, location, different materials the sound bounces off of, different materials the sound travels through, etc. and that was 15 years ago. There was quite an effort into the sound coding and design for some games instead of graphics like 99.9% of games. This stuff can definitely be done but it just needs the foundation setup (the sound engine itself) in order to be able to run all sorts of dynamics.

Also, closer sound-to-physics connection also gives more complexity and dynamics (ie. liveliness) to the sound.

You don't need to reach ear-drum overload because we all have the power to turn the volume up or down of our speakers just like we can with a youtube video. But even with a real-life video being played at low volume, you can still hear that it sounds, as you say, intense, powerful, alive and complex.

R3E is one of my favorite devs due to R3E's devotion to sound which is probably the best thing about racing besides driving (my opnion). Maybe further looking into the coding of the sound engine to take it to even another level higher can be considered?

sounds like you are better makeing sounds or even game. look at the mirror and see for yourself.still you are drinking pepsi and driving simcade pcars2.

What? Project Cars 2 is one of the only sims I currently don't own. Yes, I was part-way through sound-engineering school (only 1 month) and then I had to drop-out due to sudden financial difficulties and other unexpected commitments at the time. If not, I would totally be applying for a job at simracing developers. Besides physics and FFB (and physics "features" like rain, puddles, damage model, drivetrain model, etc.), all I care about in simracing is SOUND. I don't care about graphics, car lineup, circruit lineup, UI, game-modes, etc.)

I'm not in a position to do this for a job at the moment but I feel I can still contribute by trying to explain ideas on how to improve things or explain where and why things sound wrong and what to do to change them so they sound more correct.

 

[Yetch]

Well I'll take our @anthony monteil with a mono tape recorder over any team, with no matter what sophisticated instrumentation, It's not what you have but what you do with it, to have the quality sounds you have in RR the person/people involved must have more than talent, there's heart and soul gone into delivering such sweet sounds as the exquisite BMW M1, growling your way up Au Rouge is an experience unequaled by any other Sim.
I'm 100% sure Anthony would love to sit in every car, full chatt on every track, surrounded by the best recording tech on the planet, yet no, every gorgeous sound you hear in RR has been cobbled together from old YouTube videos and whatever team will allow him to gaffer tape some kit to their car. The man's a bloody genius, end of.

 

[Spinelli]

Well I'll take our @anthony monteil with a mono tape recorder over any team, with no matter what sophisticated instrumentation,

I'm not talking about sophisticated instrumentation like recording devices - I never mentioned that although you make a good point because that stuff matters too.

It's not what you have but what you do with it, to have the quality sounds you have in RR the person/people involved must have more than talent,...

No, it's both. If what you have doesn't matter and all that matters is what you do with it then all videogames would be using game/physics/graphics engines from the 1990s because "it's not about what you have but what you do with it." For example, you can only do so much with the original Unreal Engine 1 from 1998.

 

[DND]

Without the soundtrack though...right @anthony monteil. All joking aside how ever the sounds get into R3E is phenomenal.
An awesome video I would be interested in is the making of a racing sim, the graphics ,sound, FFB and the AI how it all comes together.

 

[Yetch]

I'm not talking about sophisticated instrumentation like recording devices - I never mentioned that although you make a good point because that stuff matters too.

No, it's both. If what you have doesn't matter and all that matters is what you do with it then all video games would be using game/physics/graphics engines from the 1990s because "it's not about what you have but what you do with it." For example, you can only do so much with the original Unreal Engine 1 from 1998.

Well S3 seem to be managing to coax every scrap of visual capability out of a very old DX9 engine, still looks better than both AMS & rF2, both of which are now DX11. Staying put does not mean lack of innovation, S3's graphics team have done miraculous things to keep RR relevant.
ACC made the leap to U4 and have found restrictions in certain areas and it is overly power hungry. AMS are going to adopt the mad engine, let's hope they don't also adopt the bugs that the PC franchise has failed to eliminate. A lot of people have demanded RR moves to DX11/12, all very well & good but to what engine? Do they develop their own or adapt another? I for one approve in the lack of haste in making the move, it determines the future success of the Sim, so rushing into any decision could well be commercial suicide.
Developing their own engine could take time but be commercially beneficial and made to measure.
Getting back to sound, it's been well documented that some sounds are near impossible to record perfectly as other components drown out others, until someone comes up with some kit to drop inside a gearbox or turbo to record it as an individual component, I can't see some in car sounds improving, well other than people who know what they are doing cobbling together something that is close, very close to the real thing.
Of course with S3's business model, any improvements can be added to the Sim as and when they are developed because around here it's all about evolution baby!

 

[metzgerov]

When is this out? The F90's?

 

[sam75]

Yes, please give us an indication.... looking forward to this one

 

[Spinelli]

Well S3 seem to be managing to coax every scrap of visual capability out of a very old DX9 engine, still looks better than both AMS & rF2, both of which are now DX11. Staying put does not mean lack of innovation, S3's graphics team have done miraculous things to keep RR relevant.
ACC made the leap to U4 and have found restrictions in certain areas and it is overly power hungry. AMS are going to adopt the mad engine, let's hope they don't also adopt the bugs that the PC franchise has failed to eliminate. A lot of people have demanded RR moves to DX11/12, all very well & good but to what engine? Do they develop their own or adapt another? I for one approve in the lack of haste in making the move, it determines the future success of the Sim, so rushing into any decision could well be commercial suicide.
Developing their own engine could take time but be commercially beneficial and made to measure.
Getting back to sound, it's been well documented that some sounds are near impossible to record perfectly as other components drown out others, until someone comes up with some kit to drop inside a gearbox or turbo to record it as an individual component, I can't see some in car sounds improving, well other than people who know what they are doing cobbling together something that is close, very close to the real thing.
Of course with S3's business model, any improvements can be added to the Sim as and when they are developed because around here it's all about evolution baby!

Raceroom's graphics are good for me but you can't say they've managed to squeeze "x" out of the ISI graphics engine because they are not using a stock ISI graphics engine, they have modified it's coding which proves my point even further.

AMS does not use DX11, it's basically the RF1 graphics engine.

You don't need to record all those sounds. There's all sorts of ways to generate sounds. Sound design and sound physics is very deep, it's not just a matter of wether you can record some thing or not. Also, there are many, many things that affect sound dynamics. Look into the feature set of EAX 1.0 to 5.0 for an example of some.