Cars Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth BTCC 2021

[AadHofman]

First draft of new exterior sounds: https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...orking-on-thread.126119/page-315#post-2894925

I may upload an update with these sounds later today, because while tweaking and fine tuning is needed, it is much better than the first effort already.

 

[AadHofman]

@Steinar Pladsen

Are you comparing the mod to the track version, or Group A rally version? The latter (rally version) was obviously more stable, because it had 200-250 less horsepower(!). The track version was one of the trickiest cars to drive, because it was underwheeled for the power. You have to be smooth on the throttle.

 

[AadHofman]

....

 

[Steinar Pladsen]

Testing with a real Cossi driver:
Car was unstabile in the rear and the brakes.
Brakes adjusted to 70%
TOE: Front: 120 / Rear: 70
Camber: Front: - 2.1 / Rear -1.8
Hight: Front: 10 / Rear 12
(test track: Nordscleife)

 

[AadHofman]

See my post above.

Of course it is unstable in the rear, it is RS500 with 550hp and narrow 80's tires. This sort of feedback is of no use.

 

[AadHofman]

Just wanted to add that I do appreciate your feedback anyway. For example, it inspired me to fix the steering ratio properly.

 

[Steinar Pladsen]

See my post above.

Of course it is unstable in the rear, it is RS500 with 550hp and narrow 80's tires. This sort of feedback is of no use.

yes, it is absolutely WHAT do you actually mean?
We are using a 16 Years Group A driver here for setup. Driven it at Brands Hatch etc., a well known driver in both racing, rallycross, rally - and simracing. Today he is more into German Hillclimb/ Bergrenne like at Osnabruck.
So he is driwing and we have tested the setups. The car was not recognizible to handle, as it was before the setup. See?
- If you don't need the feedback from the real drivers, we are out of here. But i guess he is the one with background for this.

 

[Steinar Pladsen]

what we mean with "loose end" it that the car was not set up fully up.
It has 0 TOE, and most of the setup made the car unrecognizable. That is why the RS500 was loose, and did not behave as the real car. See?

 

[Valart]

I forgot to change the mod's in-game description. For an update.

AadHofman submitted a new resource:

Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth BTCC - BTCC 1989



Read more about this resource...

Thank you!

• 

 

[AadHofman]

what we mean with "loose end" it that the car was not set up fully up.
It has 0 TOE, and most of the setup made the car unrecognizable. That is why the RS500 was loose, and did not behave as the real car. See?

Ah, now we are going somewhere. The rear has 0 TOE because there were rear tire heating problems in earlier versions. However, a more normal TOE-angle doesn't have that much effect in handling, in this sim with this car, so it has been sort of overlooked. An easy fix (to 0.15-0.20 degrees) and always adjustable.

Anyway, did you test with cold tires only? What were other conditions? Nordschleife only?

Also I'm not the most diplomatic today, because I'm suffering from cold.

 

[AadHofman]

Hight: Front: 10 / Rear 12

After a good night's rest, one thing came to my mind. It was a mistake by me to allow major ride height changes without adjustable packer ranges. So if you raise the car significantly, you'll be hitting the upper bumb stops more often than not, and that will screw up the handling.

 

[Steinar Pladsen]

Ah, now we are going somewhere. The rear has 0 TOE because there were rear tire heating problems in earlier versions. However, a more normal TOE-angle doesn't have that much effect in handling, in this sim with this car, so it has been sort of overlooked. An easy fix (to 0.15-0.20 degrees) and always adjustable.

Anyway, did you test with cold tires only? What were other conditions? Nordschleife only?

Also I'm not the most diplomatic today, because I'm suffering from cold.

Hot and cold tires, Nordschleife/Brands Hatch GP. Now the car is behaving more like it should to in normal. For the first time, this car was drivable. Brands Hatch was a pleasure now, as it was the total oppostite before. We tried a lot, but always went back to another kind car because the "not-a-RS500 Cosworth Group A car behaviour.
- Please remember to set up the car with a better /recognizeble setup a standard. PS: don't remember the brakes, as it as standard brakes as with the handbrake ;-) Minimum 70% to the front.

- Here is more to come, as we are going deeper into it another evening

 

[Steinar Pladsen]

Hot and cold tires, Nordschleife/Brands Hatch GP. Now the car is behaving more like it should to in normal. For the first time, this car was drivable. Brands Hatch was a pleasure now, as it was the total oppostite before. We tried a lot, but always went back to another kind car because the "not-a-RS500 Cosworth Group A car behaviour.
- Please remember to set up the car with a better /recognizeble setup a standard. PS: don't remember the brakes, as it as standard brakes as with the handbrake ;-) Minimum 70% to the front.

- Here is more to come, as we are going deeper into it another evening

I will also add what the driver is telling us:
a) The RS500 Cosworth (Group A) - is quite a stabile car to drive. The end is not that much floating.
b) It is no "RPM machine", but the strong torque is pushing it forward again as you put in a higher gear.
c) They usually had much brakes on the front, more like a normal car (70% is fine as std.)

 

[AadHofman]

Good info. I've been pondering about different default setup, and seems to be it is needed. The current is pretty much for Brands Hatch, stiff front, loose rear, understeering still minimized.

Remember that it has a locked diff, which effects the handling too.

 

[AadHofman]

c) They usually had much brakes on the front, more like a normal car (70% is fine as std.)

Btw, I have really hard time believing that the track version used this much front bias. It would lead to front locking up easily and trail braking to be more difficult.

 

[Steinar Pladsen]

Btw, I have really hard time believing that the track version used this much front bias. It would lead to front locking up easily and trail braking to be more difficult.

Yes, but try it, and set for a std. setup on it. As it is braking to much in the rear now in standard setup. This is no Go-Cart

 

[AadHofman]

Another thing. My memory failed me, as the default setup doesn't have 0 TOE at the rear. It did at some point though.

 

[Steinar Pladsen]

Trail braking with a RS500Cossi? I don't think they did so with those races It's no rallycar.
Yes, we used that in Go-Cart, and they use it in RallyCross & Rally. But not in fast racing, as this car was build for.

 

[Steinar Pladsen]

Another thing. My memory failed me, as the default setup doesn't have 0 TOE at the rear. It did at some point though.

It was 0 Toe both in front and rear. So that's not drivable

 

[AadHofman]

Trail braking with a RS500Cossi? I don't think they did so with those races It's no rallycar.
Yes, we used that in Go-Cart, and they use it in RallyCross & Rally. But not in fast racing, as this car was build for.

You definately trail brake at tracks like Brands. It is not that useful in a rally car. We may have a conflict of terms here.

Regarding TOE, I think you are seriously overestimating its effects.