PC1 Force Feedback Analysis

[vee10]

Yes another FFB thread. Don't get me wrong enjoying the game on the whole. I have been trying to work out what has been bugging me with regard to the steering and FFB. This is a issue that we had in the Codemasters F1 games, lack of road feel. I just can't work a way around it. What I am seeing on the screen from the way the car is behaving and what the FFB meter is showing and also what I am feeling through the wheel does not correlate. Take a look at Alonso's lap at Catalunya.

Look at the way his hands oscillate on the wheel they are constantly being fed infromation that is even with a high sidewall on the F1 tyre.

 

[monsieurjackb]

I decided to give Jack Spade's tweaker file ago last night to work on ffb (should have been studying....although I think there needs to be a degree on understanding FFB on project cars since it's so bloody complex Anyway, didn't like it last time I tried it but this time was better although I noticed two things. 1.) the lack off FFB on the straight it much more pronounced after using this tweaker file though I've got it back since. 2.) The main one for me, it seems weaker. I'm a fan of strong FFB so my question, is there a way, other than tire force (which seems to dull FFB down) to increase FFB since the car specific settings have no impact when the files are installed...Thanks

(I use brackets way (way) too much) --see what I did there

 

[vee10]

I decided to give Jack Spade's tweaker file ago last night to work on ffb (should have been studying....although I think there needs to be a degree on understanding FFB on project cars since it's so bloody complex Anyway, didn't like it last time I tried it but this time was better although I noticed two things. 1.) the lack off FFB on the straight it much more pronounced after using this tweaker file though I've got it back since. 2.) The main one for me, it seems weaker. I'm a fan of strong FFB so my question, is there a way, other than tire force (which seems to dull FFB down) to increase FFB since the car specific settings have no impact when the files are installed...Thanks

(I use brackets way (way) too much) --see what I did there

Have you tried lowering the Linkage stiffness & Linkage Damping in the main FFB calibration. Doing this on my wheel increased the FFB overall.

 

[monsieurjackb]

Have you tried lowering the Linkage stiffness & Linkage Damping in the main FFB calibration. Doing this on my wheel increased the FFB overall.

No I haven't but will do, I completely messed my settings up to the point that they were actually worse...it's possible so just decided to reset them. Installed tweaker file set the deadzone part (the only bit I understand) and boosted the tire force..long story short, hadn't done anything really but I'll give that a try, thanks

 

[Brandon Wright]

Have you tried lowering the Linkage stiffness & Linkage Damping in the main FFB calibration. Doing this on my wheel increased the FFB overall.

What values do you recommend for these? I'm using bmanic's settings for the T300 and he doesn't have any values listed for linkage stiffness/damping.

 

[vee10]

What values do you recommend for these? I'm using bmanic's settings for the T300 and he doesn't have any values listed for linkage stiffness/damping.

Just remember I had to lower the master scale for each into the 20's. My usual Car specific looks something like this.

This is not using the tweaker files. On cars like the RUF CTR 3 the steering feels fantastic lets you know what the front & back is doing.

Disclaimer: Results may vary, the information given does not guarantee a satisfying FFB setup!

 

[Brandon Wright]

Holy cow, that must be one light feeling wheel! If I had my values that low I would feel nothing from the wheel, like it was unplugged from the wall, I could literally steer with one finger. I'll give the linkage settings a go this evening and see how they feel. Thanks for your help.

 

[vee10]

Holy cow, that must be one light feeling wheel! If I had my values that low I would feel nothing from the wheel, like it was unplugged from the wall, I could literally steer with one finger. I'll give the linkage settings a go this evening and see how they feel. Thanks for your help.

You would think so but it is not at all. You must spend too much time in the gym Brandon!

I will be interested to hear your feedback. Setting up the FFB in PCARS feels like my first fumble with a lady friend, just groping around in the dark!

 

[Brandon Wright]

You would think so but it is not at all. You must spend too much time in the gym Brandon!

I will be interested to hear your feedback. Setting up the FFB in PCARS feels like my first fumble with a lady friend, just groping around in the dark!

I haven't been to a gym since college (which probably wasn't in this century)! I just spent years playing Gran Turismo with heavy FFB (before I knew what clipping was) so it's what I'm used to. But I know those settings would feel broken on my wheel, if I take the car out at default settings (master scale 26 and x,y,z,m forces at 100) my T300 feels like a limp, wet noodle with very little force or feedback. I don't need to feel every little bump but I do need to feel weight transfer and a light wheel doesn't give me that. But, to each their own.

I'll let you know how it goes. Thankfully, my first fumble with a lady friend was much more successful than my pCars FFB adventure.

 

[vee10]

I'll let you know how it goes. Thankfully, my first fumble with a lady friend was much more successful than my pCars FFB adventure.

Did you get good feedback?

 

[Brandon Wright]

Did you get good feedback?

Well, that was 20+ years ago so I don't quite remember what her response was, but she did come back for more!

 

[Ace King]

I don't need to feel every little bump but I do need to feel weight transfer and a light wheel doesn't give me that. But, to each their own.
.

I have a G25 and if i want to feel more weight/tightness in my wheel without increasing the FFB (to prevent clipping) i enable the "centering spring" in my Logitech profiler and increase the centering spring strength slider to the desired feel.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Just remember I had to lower the master scale for each into the 20's. My usual Car specific looks something like this.

This is not using the tweaker files. On cars like the RUF CTR 3 the steering feels fantastic lets you know what the front & back is doing.

Disclaimer: Results may vary, the information given does not guarantee a satisfying FFB setup!

Gave this a go last night, I think it was good. I also tuned up my dead zone removal to .06 and that made a world of difference, the wheel "weights up" in the turns how I like it too (not muscleman heavy, but it gets heavy instead of getting light like it was doing before). Doing this got rid of the spikes I was feeling and mostly did away with the "snap to center" feeling I was getting. I tried a few different cars, it wasn't the best FFB experience I've had but it was pretty good and I was able to enjoy the game for the first time.

 

[vee10]

Gave this a go last night, I think it was good. I also tuned up my dead zone removal to .06 and that made a world of difference, the wheel "weights up" in the turns how I like it too (not muscleman heavy, but it gets heavy instead of getting light like it was doing before). Doing this got rid of the spikes I was feeling and mostly did away with the "snap to center" feeling I was getting. I tried a few different cars, it wasn't the best FFB experience I've had but it was pretty good and I was able to enjoy the game for the first time.

It's good to hear that it it was a bit better. I have tried every setting in various combinations I just dont think there is anything you can change that will be a revelation to the any of the wheels we have, I think it's just Project Cars! Get it right with one car and a particular track that feel decnt, then try it on another track and then you start questioning your settings. I am sticking with what I have got/found so I can actually get some racing done. If something comes along that is the magic bullet I will take a look again.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I am sticking with what I have got/found so I can actually get some racing done. If something comes along that is the magic bullet I will take a look again.

That's exactly what I'm doing, it's good enough to enjoy so now I'm going to try to actually enjoy the game (at this point I have nearly 20 hours in the game but have only done 3 races). It doesn't feel perfect, but it feels much better and more natural, certainly good enough that I can enjoy it. Based on my experiments I don't think it's ever going to be amazing FFB so I'm not going to break my neck trying to find the magical combination, I'm just going to get it to a point I can enjoy most/all of the cars and get on with racing.

 

[Andy_J]

I have done the same. I have base setup for the FFB and all my cars will use it. I want to enjoy the racing not keep chasing perfection.

 

[Mach]

Okay....My Method is loosely based on many people saying the default settings are rubbish (and indeed they are) but Nobody has really bothered with mentioning how rubbish the global settings are...So looking at them I realised that they firstly they don't make much sense and secondly what I did understand, I didn't like. (T300 BTW)

Global Settings

Set all to '0' except 'Tyre Force' Really ? yes really! they are all in a sense, modifiers. I wanted to see purely what was coming from the car.

My Tyre Force is set to 110
Overall FB is set to 80-85

Car Feedback Settings

My approach to this was simple leave FZ, FX, FY and MZ at 100, but turn the scale right down to '0'
Leave Smoothing, Body and SOP at default. Then I drove the car E30 Gr.A Yes, the feedback was very very light but the info was there and the strong centring had gone. I brought the Scale back to 10, to strong and the centring had come back. So essentially I settled on about 2-6, on the few cars I tried. It's a compromise until we can turn the Centring Spring off. Which we can't do even if it is off in the driver (mine in the TM driver is set to 'by wheel and at 0')

I then added these settings

Fx 130, Fy 120, Fz 130, Mz,140

I am now getting some decent information, which most importantly for me, ties in with the visual. I'm pretty sure some of you will disagree I'm getting some nice elasticity in the wheel, I'm feeling some oscillation sensations that come from the undulations in the track, some centring but not overly concerning and enough rotation to tell me I'm oversteering etc. Brake locking is working well too.

I am still tweaking with FX,FZ, but once anything else gets much higher the Centring comes back. Then once settled I will apply that to all of the cars and leave it. Just move the Scale per car. It seems like a decent baseline anyway.

Work in progress but I drove the E30 at Oulton Park and while trying to get my daughter dressed and on my first lap with green tyres I was half second quicker than I had been before. I have applied this to a few cars and it's not half bad. It's no AC but, I'm getting somewhere. If you like heavy Feedback this isn't for you, it's fine in the Oreca and the LMP1 cars though. Anyways, as always FB is subjective, so hope this helps. I have had lots of swears to say about PCars, but after this, I am starting to calm down and enjoy it a bit.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Okay....My Method is loosely based on many people saying the default settings are rubbish (and indeed they are) but Nobody has really bothered with mentioning how rubbish the global settings are...So looking at them I realised that they firstly they don't make much sense and secondly what I did understand, I didn't like. (T300 BTW)

Global Settings

Set all to '0' except 'Tyre Force' Really ? yes really! they are all in a sense, modifiers. I wanted to see purely what was coming from the car.

My Tyre Force is set to 110
Overall FB is set to 80-85

Car Feedback Settings

My approach to this was simple leave FZ, FX, FY and MZ at 100, but turn the scale right down to '0'
Leave Smoothing, Body and SOP at default. Then I drove the car E30 Gr.A Yes, the feedback was very very light but the info was there and the strong centring had gone. I brought the Scale back to 10, to strong and the centring had come back. So essentially I settled on about 2-6, on the few cars I tried. It's a compromise until we can turn the Centring Spring off. Which we can't do even if it is off in the driver (mine in the TM driver is set to 'by wheel and at 0')

I then added these settings

Fx 130, Fy 120, Fz 130, Mz,140

I am now getting some decent information, which most importantly for me, ties in with the visual. I'm pretty sure some of you will disagree I'm getting some nice elasticity in the wheel, I'm feeling some oscillation sensations that come from the undulations in the track, some centring but not overly concerning and enough rotation to tell me I'm oversteering etc. Brake locking is working well too.

I am still tweaking with FX,FZ, but once anything else gets much higher the Centring comes back. Then once settled I will apply that to all of the cars and leave it. Just move the Scale per car. It seems like a decent baseline anyway.

Work in progress but I drove the E30 at Oulton Park and while trying to get my daughter dressed and on my first lap with green tyres I was half second quicker than I had been before. I have applied this to a few cars and it's not half bad. It's no AC but, I'm getting somewhere. If you like heavy Feedback this isn't for you, it's fine in the Oreca and the LMP1 cars though. Anyways, as always FB is subjective, so hope this helps. I have had lots of swears to say about PCars, but after this, I am starting to calm down and enjoy it a bit.

I'm also on a T300 and I was finally able to get rid of the strong centering effect by adjusting my deadzone (the first one, not the drop off one). It was on .02 and I had a very strong centering effect, almost like it was snapping to center, and I was getting large spikes when I went over bumps. I turned it up to .06 and suddenly the centering effect was pretty much completely gone and the spikes had gone away too. (Other than that I'm using bManic's base settings found HERE, I don't have to mess with the x,y,z,m sliders really.) I also started getting more subtle feelings through the wheel from the road and suspension, much like you get in AC.

 

[Mach]

I'll try it man, cheers...

Not for me though... Also I get that bug that yanks ya wheel to the left really hard. So I'll give it some more time. Cheers tho dude. Appreciate the tip. IGNORE WORKS A TREAT.

And I've noticed that when you make these changes, it loses the settings as soon as you go out on track. In career mode in the Ginetta Junior.

What a joke... Haha

 

[Brandon Wright]

I'll try it man, cheers...

Not for me though... Also I get that bug that yanks ya wheel to the left really hard. So I'll give it some more time. Cheers tho dude. Appreciate the tip.

Very strange, it made a world of difference on my T300. Are you using the base settings from bManic that I linked to above? I started with those, it was a good foundation and just adjusting the deadzone removal range made it all snap into place.

 

[Ryan Soucy]

great thread! lots of good stuff to try here.