PC1 Force Feedback Analysis

[vee10]

Yes another FFB thread. Don't get me wrong enjoying the game on the whole. I have been trying to work out what has been bugging me with regard to the steering and FFB. This is a issue that we had in the Codemasters F1 games, lack of road feel. I just can't work a way around it. What I am seeing on the screen from the way the car is behaving and what the FFB meter is showing and also what I am feeling through the wheel does not correlate. Take a look at Alonso's lap at Catalunya.

Look at the way his hands oscillate on the wheel they are constantly being fed infromation that is even with a high sidewall on the F1 tyre.

 

[Sele1981]

Yeah mines a Fanatec csr so a similar system and I set it to 0.25 and have the fall off set to 0.03 because I feel the need for a deadzone in there somewhere otherwise you get that horrible vibrating effect where the left and right forces sort of blend/grind. Your wheel is a better model so you can probably have a narrower deadzone without that problem. I mean I've gotten to a point where there is no noticeable deadzone but it's all about finding that balance...problem is, it's pretty damn hard to find in project cars

I set it to 0.04 now and I feel some left right left right left right on the straights. But it feels "edgy". The FFB line looks like ___n___n__n___n_n_n_n___ Still feels not correct but better than nothing

I also wonder what you mean with fall off set? I have the german version. Is it the option under the deadzone removal? I set that to 0. What does that do?

Ah btw. I use the Jack Spade FFB files and I like the FFB very much. At first I hated it. Now I pretty love it. But I did Pcars for 10 days now without any other Sim. On Tuesday I need to go back to IR. I wonder how that will feel now lol.

 

[Sele1981]

Lou is correct it is the default. Try lowering the linkage stiffness & damping.

Damn I am not at the rig right now. I use the Jack Spade FFB files. I wonder if I lose some feeling when I lower these settings? The FFB now is how I like it and close to clipping. I don´t want a lower/weaker FFB.

 

[Ace King]

If you need to increase the AI at 100% and you can still easily win using fair racing etiquette, then the AI with that track and/or car combination is the problem which means the AIW (AI fast path) and/or AI car setup needs to be fixed or tweaked.

Also, to be fair you need to race the AI like they are human and not smash your way into every turn and push them out of your way to gain an advantage. (Oh, but this may be the unfair methods you use online to gain track advantage). I could easily win every race with the AI at 100% on any track/car combination if i don't race them fair, so be honest with yourself and you will get more enjoyment from your races!

 

[jimortality]

If you need to increase the AI at 100% and you can still easily win using fair racing etiquette, then the AI with that track and/or car combination is the problem which means the AIW (AI fast path) and/or AI car setup needs to be fixed or tweaked.

Also, to be fair you need to race the AI like they are human and not smash your way into every turn and push them out of your way to gain an advantage. (Oh, but this might be the methods you use online). I could easily win every race with the AI at 100% on any track/car combination if i don't race them fair, so be honest with yourself and you will get more enjoyment from your races!

Wow you're fantastic!

 

[Rob Simms]

This is where I am at with tweaking Fanatec GT3 RS V2.

Jack Spade (Fy+SopLateral FFB Fix)
Wheel Settings GT3 / CSR
Sen OFF / 900 or OFF
FF 40 / 80-100
Sho 100 (JS OFF csw v2 ) / 100
dri off / off
Abs 65-70 / 65-70 (CSR pedals clutch/brake inverted)
Lin 0 / 0
dea 0 / 0
spr off / off
dpr off / off

Ingame
FFB 97 / 100
Tire Force 100 / 100
Deadzone Removal Range .09 / 0
Linkage Stiff/Damp .84 (both)
Relative Adjust Gain 1.10 / 1.10 (1.00 okay also)
Relative Adjust Bleed 0.10 / 0.10
Relative Adjust Clamp 0.95 / 0.95
Scoop Knee .15
Scoop Reduction .10

 

[monsieurjackb]

I set it to 0.04 now and I feel some left right left right left right on the straights. But it feels "edgy". The FFB line looks like ___n___n__n___n_n_n_n___ Still feels not correct but better than nothing

I also wonder what you mean with fall off set? I have the german version. Is it the option under the deadzone removal? I set that to 0. What does that do?

Ah btw. I use the Jack Spade FFB files and I like the FFB very much. At first I hated it. Now I pretty love it. But I did Pcars for 10 days now without any other Sim. On Tuesday I need to go back to IR. I wonder how that will feel now lol.

I think, though I could be wrong, the fall off is like a softening option, sort off so ffb is more gradual and there isn't such an 'edge'. The difference between that and deadzone is in the deadzone, there's no (or at least very little) ffb whereas the falloff just weakens that horrible jump between left and right oh and yeah it is the slider just below deadzone removal. I never liked Jack Spade ffb files but I might try again and work on it a bit. Haha I know the feeling, I've played AC more this weekend and my settings on project cars just feel dull in comparison so a complete overhaul is needed..that being said, I was happy with my deadzone setting

 

[Brandon Wright]

I think, though I could be wrong, the fall off is like a softening option, sort off so ffb is more gradual and there isn't such an 'edge'. The difference between that and deadzone is in the deadzone, there's no (or at least very little) ffb whereas the falloff just weakens that horrible jump between left and right

So, if I want to get rid of this "edge"/"jump" that I feel, would I increase the fall off or decrease it? I believe it's set pretty low right now, but I've never been clear as to what it does.

The main thing I suppose is that you are happy, the problem is
if anyone is like me you always feel like you are missing out if you don't keep tweaking!

IMO that's the problem with having all these FFB settings, you always feel like there's some adjustment that can be made to get that magical FFB that may or may not exist. Whereas a sim like GSCE you just set the overall strength and get on with racing.

 

[Majnu]

Seems to me that almost everyone is just experimenting without knowing exactly what each setting does or how it can possibly affect other parameters, apart from those settings which were provided by WMD in some pdf. Even then the document and in game explanation is too technical and needs to be reproduced in layman's terms.

 

[monsieurjackb]

So, if I want to get rid of this "edge"/"jump" that I feel, would I increase the fall off or decrease it? I believe it's set pretty low right now, but I've never been clear as to what it does.



IMO that's the problem with having all these FFB settings, you always feel like there's some adjustment that can be made to get that magical FFB that may or may not exist. Whereas a sim like GSCE you just set the overall strength and get on with racing.

I think so, well getting rid of that edge feel when the wheel is straight anyway, not when there's spikes when going round corners etc. I'd kind of describe is as like sanding down the edges if that makes sense, sort of smooths it. I love GSC's ffb, both in terms of actual feel as well as set up, it's perfect

 

[vee10]

Seems to me that almost everyone is just experimenting without knowing exactly what each setting does or how it can possibly affect other parameters, apart from those settings which were provided by WMD in some pdf. Even then the document and in game explanation is too technical and needs to be reproduced in layman's terms.

Some of the explanations in the text next to the settings are like Chinese to English gone badly wrong.

Most of them make no sense. I may have made this one up but it would fit right in.

'You are wanting yes to make the sop lower then your arms go floppy no?'

(disclaimer not actually in the game)

 

[Brandon Wright]

I think so, well getting rid of that edge feel when the wheel is straight anyway, not when there's spikes when going round corners etc. I'd kind of describe is as like sanding down the edges if that makes sense, sort of smooths it. I love GSC's ffb, both in terms of actual feel as well as set up, it's perfect

So, do I want to increase or decrease the deadzone fall off in order to smooth the edges? I do get a lot of spikes which going over bumps or rough patches of road, I've been able to minimize them but I'd like to remove them completely. None of the other sims I play have this lumpy/spikey feeling......well, iRacing does, and that's one of the reasons I put it in the bin.

 

[Majnu]

Some of the explanations in the text next to the settings are like Chinese to English gone badly wrong.

Most of them make no sense. I may have made this one up but it would fit right in.

'You are wanting yes to make the sop lower then your arms go floppy no?'

(disclaimer not actually in the game)

lol

I do appreciate the efforts people have made posting their setups and even Jack Spade providing his xml sheet but I'd like to have a crack at the settings myself but the explanation is in spinglish. I would post in the pCARS forum but so far I haven't come across one developer chiming in to explain stuff, it just seems to be investors trying their best to help the community out but they're left in the dark like the rest of us.

 

[Cote Dazur]

lol

I do appreciate the efforts people have made posting their setups and even Jack Spade providing his xml sheet but I'd like to have a crack at the settings myself but the explanation is in spinglish. I would post in the pCARS forum but so far I haven't come across one developer chiming in to explain stuff, it just seems to be investors trying their best to help the community out but they're left in the dark like the rest of us.

Would this PDF document help you?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vchw3vpsdst72id/pCarsFFBGuideTopology3.pdf?dl=0

 

[Arne Dopudja]

FFB settings are so over the place depending on user preferences that you cannot say what is exactly realisitc.

I think in pC, the FFB is done considerably well, better than AC but worse than Race07.

 

[monsieurjackb]

So, do I want to increase or decrease the deadzone fall off in order to smooth the edges? I do get a lot of spikes which going over bumps or rough patches of road, I've been able to minimize them but I'd like to remove them completely. None of the other sims I play have this lumpy/spikey feeling......well, iRacing does, and that's one of the reasons I put it in the bin.

To smooth it you need to increase it. I've got it set to 0.03 and it feels good. Yeah the spikes when going over bumps feel horrible, especially when there's a string of them. All this setting does though is smooth the edges of when the ffb starts and finishes around the deadzone. Basically, when the strong left and right forces are fighting each other you get that awful grinding feel (which probably isn't good for the wheel either) and increasing the falloff just helps to lessen that. You can try and see if the bumps are smoothed, they probably will be in a straight line but I'm not sure as it'll help with bumps round corners.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Next question: My biggest issue with the FFB is this weird "snap to center" feeling, it's like the wheel has a hard stop at the 12 o'clock position. For example, if I'm swerving to warm up the tires it stops at dead center instead of smoothly crossing over. I have to force it across the center point. I've never felt anything like that in other sims or real cars. Anyone know how to remedy this? I think if I can get rid of this issue then I'll be satisfied enough with the FFB in pCars.

 

[vee10]

Next question: My biggest issue with the FFB is this weird "snap to center" feeling, it's like the wheel has a hard stop at the 12 o'clock position. For example, if I'm swerving to warm up the tires it stops at dead center instead of smoothly crossing over. I have to force it across the center point. I've never felt anything like that in other sims or real cars. Anyone know how to remedy this? I think if I can get rid of this issue then I'll be satisfied enough with the FFB in pCars.

I had this after changing my wheel settings. Seems fix one issue another appears. What fixed it for me to be able to keep my new settings was lowering the Master scale for each car to no more than 20ish. That enabled me to get the tyre feeling back rather than everything feeling steering column based.

Is it a coincidence that both Pcars & RRE are a pain in the arse to set the FFB up? Considering SMS studios came from Simbin.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I had this after changing my wheel settings. Seems fix one issue another appears. What fixed it for me to be able to keep my new settings was lowering the Master scale for each car to no more than 20ish. That enabled me to get the tyre feeling back rather than everything feeling steering column based.

I can't do that, with master scale that low my wheel would have no weight to it at all and I hate a limp wheel. I usually have it set around 36-40 depending on the car. Main FFB is 100, tire force is 100, Thrustmaster profiler is around 90, x,y,z,m forces all hovering around 100, arm angle usually in the 1800-2200 range, everything else is using @bmanic settings. I'm not expecting ultra-realistic FFB from this game, I just want some weight in the turns, no snap-to-center feeling, and no huge spikes when going over bumps or tiny pebbles.

 

[vee10]

I can't do that, with master scale that low my wheel would have no weight to it at all and I hate a limp wheel. I usually have it set around 36-40 depending on the car. Main FFB is 100, tire force is 100, Thrustmaster profiler is around 90, x,y,z,m forces all hovering around 100, arm angle usually in the 1800-2200 range, everything else is using @bmanic settings. I'm not expecting ultra-realistic FFB from this game, I just want some weight in the turns, no snap-to-center feeling, and no huge spikes when going over bumps or tiny pebbles.

Sorry I can't help anymore Brandon, frustrating that there is not a solution that works for everyone. There are far too many variables be it wheel, wheel FFB calibration and car specific FFB and also car setup. What works for one combination does not work for another. Annoying!

 

[Brandon Wright]

Sorry I can't help anymore Brandon, frustrating that there is not a solution that works for everyone. There are far too many variables be it wheel, wheel FFB calibration and car specific FFB and also car setup. What works for one combination does not work for another. Annoying!

I agree, it seems like everyone is having very different experiences and it's difficult to find any common ground with the dozens and dozens of settings. It is frustrating that using mildly heavy FFB creates this snap-to-center effect that almost ruins the whole experience. Makes it very difficult for me to have any precision with my inputs or confidence in high-speed situations.