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bManic's FFB experiment - Thrustmaster TX / T300

Discussion in 'Project CARS' started by bmanic, May 14, 2015.

  1. UPDATE! I changed Relative Adjust Bleed to 0.3 instead of 0.45 (which could cause some oddities)

    UPDATE2!: More and more people with other wheel brands have tried the settings and it's starting to look as if these may work for quite a few wheels. T500 is confirmed as working pretty well, Fanatec GT2/GT3RS v2 also confirmed as working better than defaults and one Fanatec CSW v2 also happy.

    UPDATE3!: There seems to be some confusion about Steering Arm Angle and what it is. It is NOT the same as Steering Ratio, which is a VEHICLE SETUP parameter. Arm Angle can be found in the car garage menu, under the Force Feedback Tab (it's the middle tab, between Vehicle and Summary tabs), the last option on the first page is called Arm Angle. This is the one I mean. Everything in this thread is about Force Feedback, not about vehicle setups!

    Update4!: Brandon Wright noticed quite a bit of spikes and odd behavior which seems to be related to the Relative Adjust Bleed parameter. It is possible that my value of 0.3 is still too large so if any of you guys are suffering from these spikes then try a lower setting. You can go as low as 0.05 until you lose the benefit of the Relative Adjust processing block.


    Hi guys,

    So I finally had some time to play the game and I've spent the whole day experimenting with a new way to squeeze the massive FFB dynamic range into a range that our consumer wheels can tolerate while getting as much information as possible from the FFB (meaning: no hard clipping).

    I would love it if you Thrustmaster TX and T300 owners would try these settings. NOTE: You must follow these instructions TO THE LETTER or the experience will be different to mine. Feedback that is provided without following every single point to the letter will be useless and thus ignored.

    Why? Because the FFB system in pCars is extremely flexible and thus complex. It is also highly dynamic which means that a single tiny tweak of a crucial parameter (like tire force / master scale multiplier, spindle arm angle or the ratio of Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz) will alter the system. Thus, if you want stronger or weaker forces, use your Thrustmaster Control Panel program to control this! Do NOT change the in-game settings to achieve this!

    These are my Thrustmaster Control Panel gain settings:

    Overall strength of all forces = 75%
    Constant = 100%
    Periodic = 0%
    Spring = 0%
    Damper = 0%

    Auto-center settings = by the game (recommended)

    Step 1)

    Set your Thrustmaster Control Panel settings. You can use my settings to start with. These result in fairly heavy forces. A good workout but not impossible to drive with. If you are a masochist, set the strength to 100%. I often drive longer races with the strength set to 60%.

    Step 2)

    Start Project CARS and reset your wheel then do the wheel calibration again as follows:

    a) turn wheel FULLY LEFT AND RIGHT.. all the way! My TX wheel requires me to truly wrestle the wheel to get it 100%, otherwise it stops at 96%.

    b) follow the 90 degree rotation to the letter.. this means you set your wheel so that it is physically pointing exactly 90 degrees to either left or right. Do NOT set it so that you get perfectly 900 or 1080 degrees here. Set it so that it is truly pointing 90 degrees to either side. For example, my wheel when set so that it is physically pointing 90 degrees results in a steering rotation of 882 degrees.

    c) calibrate your pedals

    d) configure your buttons

    Step 3)

    Make sure your FFB Strength in-game is set to 100/maximum! This is very important! It defaults to 75. Also make sure the FFB damping saturation setting is set to ZERO. It defaults to 25. (you find these options under the CONFIGURATION tab in the controls preferences)

    Step 4)

    Go into the "calibrate FFB" menu and set the following (parameters not mentioned should be left at default!):

    Tire Force = 100

    Deadzone Removal Range = 0.03
    Deadzone Removal Falloff = 0.02

    Relative Adjust Gain = 1.37 (sometimes it shows 137 and leaves the " . " out)
    Relative Adjust Bleed = 0.30
    Relative Adjust Clamp = 1.33 (sometimes it shows 133 and leaves the " . " out)

    Scoop Knee = 0.12
    Scoop Reduction = 0.08

    Soft Clipping (Half Input) = 0.60
    Soft Clipping (Full Output) = 1.79

    Step 5)

    Individual car setup FFB settings! I've only had time to test 3 cars but from these you can quickly extrapolate and get the general idea. The main idea is to have a Mz heavy setup and to set a good spindle arm angle and then to set a good Master Scale value so that the FFB "pushes" into the Relative Gain and Soft Clipping at proper levels. These usually end up in the 26 to 36 range, depending on how much down force the car produces or how heavy it is. Here are the settings for the 3 cars that tried:

    <--- CAR SETUP - FFB TAB - --->

    Lykan Hypersport:

    Master Scale = 32

    Fx = 68
    Fy = 36
    Fz = 74
    Mz = 100

    (note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

    Steering Arm Angle = 2200

    BMW Z4 GT3:

    Master Scale = 28

    Fx = 66
    Fy = 44
    Fz = 82
    Mz = 100

    (note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

    Steering Arm Angle = 2000

    Formula B:

    Master Scale = 30

    Fx = 68
    Fy = 36
    Fz = 74
    Mz = 100

    (note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

    Steering Arm Angle = 2500
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    That's it. You are done. Go into the game and enjoy pretty detailed FFB. To appreciate the full range of FFB I highly recommend turning off all driving aids. I'll add more cars to this thread once I have a chance to test some more.

    NOTE!: I will NOT be providing FFB .xml files because they do not seem to work as expected. This is a complete system where every individual setting feeds into one another and thus becomes a quite complex thing. The general signal flow is like this (at least it used to be like this right before release):

    Tire Force * Master Scale -> Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz -> Spindle Arm Angle -> Relative Gain -> Soft Clipping -> Scoop -> Tighten Center

    As I've understood it, Relative Gain and Soft Clipping are non-linear functions and thus quite complex in nature. Even small input variations can cause quite a different feel in the wheel. Because there are two of these functions after one another and they feed an inherently non-linear device (your consumer wheel) you can probably appreciate how quickly things get complicated. You'll easily notice this by simply tweaking the Master Scale of each car or change the Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz relative ratios. Like I said in the beginning of the post, the main point is to squeeze as much "useful" information into the limited dynamic range of our consumer wheels and this means compressing the heck out of it.


    You lucky s.o.b's with direct drive wheels can ignore all this and simply set pCars as fully linear and have a ridiculously awesome experience. You may still want to adjust the Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz settings like I have them above but disregard everything else (remove all soft clip and all relative gain and scoop stuff. Heck, I'd even remove tighten center).

    Cheers!
    bManic
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
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  2. RUF RGT-8 GT3

    Master Scale = 36

    Fx = 68
    Fy = 38
    Fz = 78
    Mz = 100

    (note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

    Steering Arm Angle = 2300


    BMW 1-series M Coupe

    Master Scale = 36

    Fx = 70
    Fy = 40
    Fz = 68
    Mz = 100

    (note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

    Steering Arm Angle = 2200


    Renault Clio Cup

    Master Scale = 34

    Fx = 82
    Fy = 60
    Fz = 68
    Mz = 100

    (note!! set all Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz smoothing to zero!!)

    Arm Angle = 700
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
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  3. In your Gain Settings for TX what is your Spring at? you did not mention..
    Going to try this, even tho I was quite happy with my FFB
     
  4. Oops.. fixed. Spring is at 0%
     
  5. and could you tell me what Rotation angle you set in TX control window? I used to have mine at 900, but the wheel was light and I didn't like the FBB. So I had it on 270 for the last few days, and it felt a lot better..
     
  6. Also how do you set some precise settings like - Soft Clipping (Full Output) = 1.79. it only lets me do 1.50 or 2.00
     
  7. Just done few laps in Oulton Park in BMW Z4. Good feeling, lap times were getting quicker and then staying consistent, which is a good sign I guess. However, for my liking I prefer heavier wheel and inputs from the FBB. So would you recommend turning overall strength in TX control window or should I increase the Master Scale in game? Any other suggestions.
    Thanks for this bmanic, I look forward to some more car setups.
     
  8. You have to keep it at 900 degrees rotation in the control panel! It makes ZERO sense to make the rotation smaller in the driver. If you calibrate the wheel correctly in Project CARS (follow my instructions) it will automatically set the correct rotation. If you change it to smaller in the driver it may mess up the FFB in pCars (not necessarily but the general rule of thumb is to always keep it at 900 degrees rotation).
     
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  9. If you want heavier wheel still you need to set the FFB to maximum in your Thrustmaster Control Panel. If 100% is not heavy enough for you then you simply have to get a better wheel. There is really no other option. If you increase the tire forces / multiplier you will be squashing the fine details (which are important to learn/understand the tires and optimum grip/slip angle!) into a tiny dynamic range. Ultimately if you increase the multiplier or tire force too much it all becomes almost on/off.

    At 100% the thrustmaster TX wheel is already suffering quite a bit. It's not at all linear at these levels any more and thus makes it harder to drive precisely.

    So yeah, if you like really heavy forces (it seems you do) you really need to invest in a new wheel. Probably next step up would be the Fanatec CSW v2 and after that a direct drive wheel.
     
  10. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium Member

    @bmanic, your testing was done on the PC correct? I noticed @R0k4s_46 suggests a rotation of 270 degrees, I assume that is on a console as I would never run that on my PC - I always set to 900 and adjust steering lock if need be.

    Edit: the FFB of my TX in pCARS on the PC was felt fine but I will be trying your suggestions and posting my opinion. The never ending search for the holy-grail of FFB :)
     
  11. Even on the console Project CARS should allow you to have 900 degrees rotation without any issues.. and steering lock is available for every single car. There really is no reason to set it to anything else.
     
  12. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium Member

    I agree, but was your testing on the PC?
     
  13. With a mouse it allows you to set more precise settings. 1.79 is the step in between 1.50 and 2.00. You can try with 1.50 also or 2.0, this setting shouldn't make a huge difference. Perhaps set it to 1.50 as you like heavier forces.
     
  14. Thankl you for this.

    RUF RGT8 GT3, please. I haven't tried them but I am going to. Besides, it's a pretty popular GT3 car.;)
     
  15. Ok thanks guys. Yes, I'm on the console, that's why I can't set everything as precise as you, but never mind. Well for now, I'm going to enjoy this wheel, but in the future I may think about getting something better. But your settings definitely made the driving more precise I would say, felt good. Going to try setting up all the other cars now. Thanks again bmanic, keep it up!
     
  16. Yes. PC.
     
  17. Any idea how these settings would translate to a Fanatec GT3RSv2? Is the T300 a stronger or weaker wheel and is that the main difference between these consumer wheels when it comes to these settings, just the strength of the motors?
     
  18. I have no idea how it translates to other wheels.. probably not well at all to Fanatec wheels.. but it's worth exploring the same process, Relative Gain into Soft Clip. That's the key.

    The problem is that I don't know at all how the Fanatec GT3RSv2 "feels".. don't know how it translates over a range of weak to strong forces. If it's completely different to the TX/T300 then my settings will not translate well.

    Basically what you need to tweak is how "hard" the Relative Gain processing block is hit and how "hard" that one hits the Soft Clip part (by changing the soft clip input value so that it is biased towards low or high forces). Remember, really small setting changes can have quite an impact! Try for instance to set the Soft Clip (half input) setting to 0.4 instead of 0.6. This will "bias" it so that low forces get expanded. Then try a Relative Gain of 1.1 instead of 1.37 etc. So many variables. :)
     
  19. PaulH

    PaulH
    Premium Member

    Will give this a try later, thanks for your effort :thumbsup:
     
  20. Any chance that those settings are similar on T500rs?