FFB "leaping"

Discussion in 'Automobilista' started by Kuba Oczos, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Kuba Oczos

    Kuba Oczos
    Snoopy Premium

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    I really want to enjoy Reiza's production but its force feedback effects really put me off. Now I am installing this game for a thrid time and maybe you, dear simracers, can help me :whistling:

    First of all, my wheel is older Logitech Driving Force Pro (v5.10 Logitech Profiler version). It is working well in any other games (R3E, DiRT Rally, RACE 07 franchise etc). In R3E I got my perfect setup working fine and expected same level of effects simulation in AMS but the ffb setup seems to be broken for my wheel:

    During wheel rotation the force feedback is not constant and smooth, but it "leaps". I do not really know how to describe this problem, leaping is the most appropriate word I can think of. It is like the wheel weight fast turns off/on while turning what results in jumpy ffb. It certainly does not feel "healthy" for my wheel ffb mechanism, especially when I would do quick and strong movements and this leaping occures... It is the worst while driving SuperTrucks then Formula Truck and couple others.
    I had already played with FFB settings (profiler settings, in-game overall ffb strength and low force boost as well), find out RealFeel plugin smoothing option softens this occurrence (no surprise here, its why it is called smooting :p) however the max value of smoothing is 9 (as far as I remember) and at this max level this problem is still not bearable, so I guess the source of problem is elsewhere. I was using the Pure+Effects 1 preset, tried others but the problem still occured.

    I have no idea what is wrong, I started to think it is just my wheel not supported in AMS :cautious: I red tons of posts according FFB on Reiza's forum but since Force Pro is a bit dated (however very similar to Force GT) did not find any tips what setup or tweaks should I make to get it right. This problem is the reason causing me to uninstall the game every time, nervously thinking about hours wasted on nothing trying to fix this :mad: Then, couple of weeks later (and RD events missed) installing agin because my will to get it working seems stronger, and the loop closes.

    Any help much appreciate :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  2. Paulo Gomes

    Paulo Gomes

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    You can try this setings, I use them with a g27, and it feels very good. Plus while your driving, the keys, RightCtrl + 7 (stronger ffb), and RightCtrl + 9 (softer ffb) in the number pad, will change the ffb per car.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Remember that cars with high donwforce levels, you will have to sacrifice the ffb at low speed ( very light ffb) so when in high speed the wheel is not clipping all the time.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Martin Fiala

    Martin Fiala
    Moving Chicane Premium

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    In case you're using Pure 360Hz FFB, have you tried going to Pure 180Hz? Maybe your old wheel just can't keep up with the game...

    Edit: Sorry, nevermind, missed your mention about trying other settings.
     
    • Beer Beer x 1
  4. Heitor Facuri Cicoti

    Heitor Facuri Cicoti

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    It sounds like you have FFB strength inverted. Throw the slider to the opposite side (if negative, make it positive or vice-versa) and see if it helps.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Eric Neo

    Eric Neo
    Premium

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    Try increase the "FFB Skip Updates" in controller.ini to 2,3,4,etc..
    Also try connect your wheel to a different USB port. I use to have similar momentary loss of FFB when i connect my wheel to the USB2.0 port on my PC, it was solved after i changed to a USB3.0 port.
     
  6. Kuba Oczos

    Kuba Oczos
    Snoopy Premium

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    Thanks for replies, unfortunately still no solution. I am running on pretty clean Windows installation and tried your suggestions but seems my wheel is just not supported in Automobilista. I got only USB 2.0 ports, so I cannot try 3.0, but I tried other ones, same result. I know ffb must be nagative for my wheel, otherwise it is inverted. I loaded profile for Logitech Driving Force GT which is implementetd in game. Basically similar wheel, and the settings suggest using 180Hz pure preset. I tried that, no really difference for me I guess, but just missing a lot of effects and curb vibration. Set some skip updates in txt files but it did not helped either (I tried it before also) :(

    For me it seems like it is caused by some friction factor which somehow cannot send constant signal to my wheel (sorry for inexpert vocabulary) because it occures only when the car is on move (even very slow).

    I found turning in-game FFB strength to -20% and overall ffb to 50% in logitech profiler is better but then I am missing a lot of effects and it is for sure not what I am expecting from race sim. It seems the game is made for wheels with weaker ffb than mine. My Force Pro I would say is pretty strong comparing to some never setups (excluding DD of course) and is characterised by very raw ffb, so much smoothing should be applied. When I turn it up to -100% ingame the wheel is hard as heel, around 60% is quite good but this leaping is annoying :thumbsdown:

    In my opinion Reiza overdone this ffb effects with very high update frequencies, leving us without convinient configuration (only 2 main sliders). Okay there is a way to edit it all in config files, but as far as I am not dumb in some config tweaks, I am still not as experienced (and guess never will be) enough to know every factor and what are they responsible for... Guess I am in minority as nowadays almost all simracers are using more advanced and expensive wheel setups and for them AMS works fine because it was designed and tweaked for more current wheels, unfortunatelly I cannot afford one yet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  7. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

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    AMS has excellent FFB for 99+% of users. It is one of its best features and constantly comes up in reviews or comparisons.

    Your wheel is old and relatively poor quality--it is certainly not a strong force wheel. Try rF2, the other sim recognized as having the best and most sophisticated FFB available in a consumer sim. I bet you'll get the same bad result. Are you using canned results in the other games where it feels better? Yes, to DiRT Rally because that's all it has--very poor quality FFB. Both R3E and RACE 07 install with canned effects (instead of "pure" in Reiza's terminology) turned on by default.

    That being said, if you ask on the Reiza forums, they might have advice about the best possible settings for your wheel. Or others with the same wheel (doubtful there will be many) might also know something. Whether the result will be good enough for you, who knows? But if you already tried the lower FFB frequencies and added in Smoothing above the default levels, I doubt it will be acceptable.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. natedogg1867

    natedogg1867

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    This is one of the things I havent liked about AMS' development. Once they changed the way FFB works, my wheel has never felt as good as it did in GSCE.

    The FFB simply felt too raw and unrefined for the G27 to handle, and this made the FFB feel sharp and jerky instead of smooth and detailed.

    You have polled all simracers and found that they came to a 99% agreement?

    IDontBelieveYou.gif :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Heitor Facuri Cicoti

    Heitor Facuri Cicoti

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    Wow, I have a G27 as well, and my impression is exactly the opposite. In GSCE I could feel the low refresh rate, meaning it felt a bit like sand between the gears, and sometimes it would even skip a bump depending on the speed.

    The first time I tried AMS, things were so clear, so smooth. There are still a lot limitations from it being a G27, but the higher frequency physics and FFB could be noticed a lot.

    Edit: And, to be fair, FFB was not drastically changed from GSCE to AMS. Only the frequency was increased and the low force boost was added, if I recall it correctly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

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    And take note, you can be fastest while still using a lowly G27 ;)

    @natedogg1867, I think it's just a matter of getting all the settings correct.
     
  11. natedogg1867

    natedogg1867

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    FFB when GSCE became AMS was the same. It only changed after AMS had a few updates. Polling rate was adjusted, a few new menu options were added, and low force boost was added. So, the FFB was alright when AMS first launched after the indie gogo campaign which I backed.

    I dont disagree with you here, as I would agree with this statement in just about any sim.

    However, AMS doesnt exactly offer many settings to change... and the underlying FFB did change in AMS' life cycle.
     
  12. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

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    So since the vast majority find it appealing, either it's just not to your liking, or, you have some tweaking left to do.
     
  13. Heitor Facuri Cicoti

    Heitor Facuri Cicoti

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    Here are my settings if you are interested:

    Logitech Profiler
    Overall Effects Strength - 100%
    Everything else - 0%
    Allow Game to Adjust Settings - Check

    AMS
    Force Feedback Effects - Pure 360
    Force Feedback Strength - -70%
    Low Force Boost - 60%

    Everything else, including RealFeelPlugin.ini, is default.

    Very straight forward.
     
  14. Domagoj Lovrić

    Domagoj Lovrić
    Reiza Studios

    Messages:
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    I must chip in here since i had somewhat similar issues. Here it was before changing vga card for higher performance model. You might try monitoring game fps or frame time, some stuttering can cause (what i believe) you describe. Best described as FFB being "notchy", easiest way to check is with supertrucks.

    My advice is: try using Pure (without effects) on lower setting (even tho this shouldn't affect this much), more importantly, try lowering some GFX settings. Are you using DynHUD by chance? If so, try new built in hud (read: get rid of dynhud).
     
  15. MotherDawg

    MotherDawg

    Messages:
    30
    Ratings:
    +6
    Always wanted to post here but I needed to fact check first.

    Wheels that need negative force, line 433 in the PLR:
    FFB steer force input max="-11500.00000" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).

    Since AMS uses RealFeel 0.9.3.6 that includes Leo's parking lot effect, RealFeel has two fields that also needs to be set to a negative value: MaxForceAtSteeringRack and Kf.

    Code:
    [F175_LE:Tyrrell P34 #04 Patrick Depailler]
    MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-2000.000000
    SteeringDamper=9500.000000
    FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
    FrontGripEffect=0.200000
    SmoothingLevel=1
    Kf=-11500.000000
    Ks=2.000000
    A=1.000000
    Kr=3.000000
    A POSITIVE "MaxForceAtSteeringRack" plus a NEGATIVE "FFB steer force input max" will never amount to anything good.

    While at it, set both default lines (top part) to negative too.

    ---

    @Marc Collins,
    Our wheels maybe old but they are not of "poor quality". Insulting and despicable individual :O_o:
    It's just that some of us are not brain washed by consumerism and as long as it's not broken, why changed? I have more important things to put my money on, like a sail boat, than a game controller.
    So yup, I run a 20 years old wheel... it's marvelous as it's cable driven. Silky smooth... well I did install a ball bearings kit 19 yrs ago. Now... about my darn "no resolution" pedals set...
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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