Debate: The Rights and Wrongs of the Verstappen Penalty

Yeah, right.... let's go back in time. This is Back to the F1 future: Creation.
Guys... it's almost like we have dude commited a murder and someone jump in courtroom and yell "Yo, what's with all those unpaid parking tickets he's got !?!". Just plain silly.
Plain silly are these type of things: https://twitter.com/MaVic009/status/922205946096574467
Saying the stewarts are always favouring Ferrari and against Max while he pulled those moves in these abovementioned races, that is just plain silly and ignorant.
 

Andy_J

I hate Race cheats ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Think of it this way. If this race was at Montreal, and Vestappen had got on the podium by cutting the final chicane on the last lap, how many people would say he should keep the position? Nobody would be.

THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME

So a penalty was 100% correct.

What needs fixing is the way to stop drivers (cough Sebastian Vettel cough) from abusing track limits all the time, so when something like this happens there isn't the controversy.

In 2016 the FIA started policing Track Limits and trialing methods in F1, and it was universally loved by fans. They tried two methods, one at Silverstone and the other at Hungary.

At Silverstone, they used competent and experienced marshals who have been used to enforcing stringent Track Limits rules in club competitions to observe the track and report drivers running wide. What did we have? Laptimes deleted, followed by drivers not running wide because they then knew it was wrong.

At Hungary, they installed sensors in the floor on the exits of corners, and pinged any drivers who set them off.

Both worked really well, but they were quashed (probably by drivers like Vettel who abuse the limits constantly) and disappeared, leaving us with this mess.

This whole "gaining an advantage" line needs to be chucked in the bin. The drivers wouldn't have been running wide at turn 19 in qualifying if it wasn't faster.

But the main thing that needs to happen is drivers being punished for abusing track limits in the race, regardless of if they're fighting or not. If someone runs wide at Turn 19 3 times without any pressure, give them a black and white flag. 2 more abuses and it's a Drive through. A simple solution that has been working in British Club Racing that Formula 1 need to bring in. Be harsh on them and they'll clean up their act quickly. It's somehow worked (kinda) on the BTCC, so it will work on Formula 1. There's too many pansies in the wrong places.

The FIA have incredibly accurate GPS tracking. They could if they want to monitor each car and ping them every time they go off track anyway.

This ^^^^ Great post.:thumbsup:
 
Poor Max.. He already said how much he loves new/parking lot tracks and how much he cringes when thinking of Monaco. Wonder why. What a future champ... :)

FIA, in its current disastrous/politicized state, is most inconsistent in enforcing penalties for cutting the track. But then again it encourages drawing tracks on tarmac instead of having the gravel trap start 50cm outside the kerbs. All in the name of pussifying the sport. TT riders must be laughing their socks off.
 
Car is fully off the racing track. If this is considered "legal" then there may as well be no track limits whatsoever. The only reason Christian Horner was so animated afterwards was because it was his driver...if it had been for instance Raikonen who had made the pass, then the same person would have been all in favour of a penalty.

The one thing it added was a smidgen of excitement in anotherwise typically boring technical procession of cars in what some were calling "a race". Time to let F1 die a graceful death and let us live with the memories of the days when drivers like James Hunt had personality and balls and weren't all about hairspray and bleached teeth...
No, he was animated because it was inconsistent. Many other ran wide etc while being passed but used the off track to fight back!
 
No, he was animated because it was inconsistent. Many other ran wide etc while being passed but used the off track to fight back!

No, he was animated because it was inconsistent. Many other ran wide etc while being passed but used the off track to fight back!

Many other including Max VERSTAPPEN ! I love that supid excuse of many others were cutting to gain advantage but fail to mention Max was doing the same through out the race and in qualy !!!!! this time the advantage was not time or catching up, but over taking someone for podium !!!! FFS !!!
 
The penalty's right. Verstappen's move is illegal. And it's illegal in every sim we drive as well :D
I agree with who suggests to use real grass instead of that particular coloured tarmac, outside the track limits, or some heavy kerbs, so a driver can't do such a bold move to gain a position.
 
People keep comparing going wide in turn exit to cutting the inside of the corner like they are exactly the same thing. To me it seems that the stewards allow to go wide in corner exit, but cut the inside of the corner and gaining a positions it's completely different. Technically they are both going out of the white lines, but one of those gains much much more time...guess what one.
 
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Just line the edge of the track with anti-personnel mines, empty Jack Daniels bottles & Drachenzähne. That'll sort the corner cutters :D No seriously though, as Coultard often points out on these open tracks 'If this was Monaco he would minus half a car'. Seems to me there was a lot of imaginative track interpretation going on in that race, 99% of it totally ignored by the stewards & 1% not... As said above somewhere, anything beyond the curbs should be wet tar to a race car. It would provide an incentive not to stray, or add armco barriers where habitual off track violations occur.

Also, I think Max seemed to suddenly reacted to Kimi moving right. It all happened so quick...but you gotta love young Max & his race craft. :thumbsup:
 
The Stewards made the right call.

As a flag marshal for the WFMA (Waneroo Flag Marshals Association) @ Barbagallo Raceway, we are instructed to call in any abuse of track limits that see competitors exceeding the track limits with all four wheels, we, as CAMS officials are affiliated with, and recognized by the FIA, follow the same regulations as all FIA officials globally.

The fact is, Max exceeded track limits with all 4 wheels while overtaking, which gained him a distinct and obvious advantage. It would of been deemed by the stewards at the time that he gained a maximum of 5 seconds with the illegal cut and this is why he was penalised by 5 seconds.

TBH, all drivers were exceeding the limits at some point during practice, qualifying and the race, it occurs at nearly all F1 circuits. But if the marshals had to call in all track limit breeches there would be an uproar by drivers, teams and fans alike, as every driver would be hit with penalties. Try being a track/flag marshal, go volunteer for a day at your local track and see how difficult it really is, you'll be surprised.
 
If you are going to design these silly tracks with huge run of areas, low kerbs, grasscrete areas and really no punishment for driver making really quite considerable mistakes, this is always likely.

I applaud Max for the move, it was brave, daring and imaginative. But Kimi would not have been expecting it, not because Max is some amazing talent who is the only drover who thinks up this kind of thing, but because it is not a true line, there, he went full off track to gain an advantage.

In all honesty, the corner at the top after the twisties was abused every lap, full car width so you can see Horner's point.

I think we would rather have pure consistency, like goal line technology in football, so there is no grey area.

Or maybe Liberty want this as it gives the media and us something to talk about in an otherwise typically dull modern F1 race
 

Benutzername

www.hasenkamp-motorsport.de
Premium
In the past it simply was not possible to be quicker outside of the track. Nowadays its possible and that started the whole can of worms.

In austria 2014 i think it was disallowed to use the outside area of a corner to be quicker. In the early 00s at that area there was grass and gravel.

The problem is the track, not the driver. If there is a faster way to drive they should use it.



Obviously Verstappen should have known that he would be given a penalty, that was quite obvious.
 
I don't know I think it's a little foolish. But to me, he moved more to the right Because Raikkonen tried to close gap. He wouldn't have crossed it with all 4 wheels if that didn't happen.

To me it's a racing situation. Almost all of them when out of the track in one corner, and that was apparently legal driving.
 
Exciting/daring move, but a very obvious cut. If the stewards had been allowing cuts there all day (and I don't recall that being the case), I'd have a different opinion.
 
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End of discussion. Road is to go on road.

The penalty should be a drive-through also in the last lap. But F1 marshalls don't do their work for years, their decisions always are delayed in time.
 
He left the track in 4th position and rejoined it in 3rd.

Nobody else gained a position while outside track limits.

Nobody else got a penalty.
 

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