Debate: The Rights and Wrongs of the Verstappen Penalty

due to the podium place the FIA had to resolve a penalty or not in a quick way, if it was for a place outside the podium, I bet they had more time to think.
I think it was an illegal manouver if he puts the 4 wheels off the track to pass, personally I don't have a clear vision of the manouver, there's no clear outside view but it was as espectacular as illegal move.
 
The only reason Vettel lost in 2014 was the same as Hamilton losing in 2011 - calamity year where he was one of the worst drivers in the field, as shown when he was overtaken by a Caterham. RIC's record against JEV (only outscoring him by one point with JEV having considerably worse luck, being screwed out of huge points hauls more than once) is much more representative of his actual skill, and the exceptional RBs are masking his inherent lack of pace relative to the rest of the field.

And before you say that good drivers never have such years, I need only remind you that Alonso lost 46-33 to Trulli in 2004 before Jarno lost all the upgrades, and 46-45 before Jarno was fired.

As for Bottas, I'd rather wait until next season before making that sort of judgment. He was easily on par with Hamilton in the first half, making up for his lesser pace with far greater consistency as well as unexpected results (nearly getting pole at Monaco, winning in Russia), and his recent car troubles highlight just one of the many reasons I don't trust the Brackley team to be honest about anything they do.

My god, Formula One sounds boring. Let me get back at MotoGP again. (how can you people live this like a politician?)
 
I honestly think the track is designed well. If there was grass there would be boring race or chances of carnage.
To me runoff and penalty > carnage or boring race.
Also bear in mind the cars became faster since the track was built, ideally some corners need opening up I suppose.
 
I voted no for a couple reasons:

1 - He didn't gain an advantage from this. He already had position on Kimi and was in the process of making the pass, he went further inside as a reaction to Kimi coming down on him, making for a tighter and more difficult turn for himself, costing him speed, etc.

2 - He was barely off track, and ended up in that position to avoid a potential collision. If Kimi had held the tighter line he suddenly started taking, and thus this had been the wheel to wheel Max was trying to avoid, what would we be saying? If there had been a collision from Kimi coming down on Max, what would we be saying?

3 - This was the most exciting racing moment in a very long time in F1. This was good hard racing for a podium position, so to penalize someone 5 seconds for a minor incident is extreme, especially given that didn't give him an advantage (he lost time, didn't gain)...

Rules are rules are rules, sure... but its not like this is as bad as going 2-3 car lengths too wide on the exit, thus getting a ton of extra speed. This isn't dive bombing someone into a turn, cutting their nose off, and then going a full car length outside to hold onto speed / complete the turn / hold the position.

This is a guy making an insanely good pass that he would have completed regardless of 6 inches left or right, but did what I think we would all like to see - he put his car in a position that would have avoided a collision, and still respected the track limits as much as possible.
 
I voted no for a couple reasons:

1 - He didn't gain an advantage from this. He already had position on Kimi and was in the process of making the pass, he went further inside as a reaction to Kimi coming down on him, making for a tighter and more difficult turn for himself, costing him speed, etc.

2 - He was barely off track, and ended up in that position to avoid a potential collision. If Kimi had held the tighter line he suddenly started taking, and thus this had been the wheel to wheel Max was trying to avoid, what would we be saying? If there had been a collision from Kimi coming down on Max, what would we be saying?

3 - This was the most exciting racing moment in a very long time in F1. This was good hard racing for a podium position, so to penalize someone 5 seconds for a minor incident is extreme, especially given that didn't give him an advantage (he lost time, didn't gain)...

Rules are rules are rules, sure... but its not like this is as bad as going 2-3 car lengths too wide on the exit, thus getting a ton of extra speed. This isn't dive bombing someone into a turn, cutting their nose off, and then going a full car length outside to hold onto speed / complete the turn / hold the position.

This is a guy making an insanely good pass that he would have completed regardless of 6 inches left or right, but did what I think we would all like to see - he put his car in a position that would have avoided a collision, and still respected the track limits as much as possible.

Never seen somebody comitting so much time to use such absurd arguments....Once an for all you have to learn that the guy gained a position by cutting the track!!! Quit the nonsense already. The reason the track doesn't have grass or sandtraps it's not to be judged by Max or any other driver. You have a track layout and you have to stick inside the track limits. If you don't you should be penalized. If you haven't been penalized you were lucky. Just face it
 

Andy_J

I hate Race cheats ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I voted no for a couple reasons:

1 - He didn't gain an advantage from this.
2 - He was barely off track
Right, sure................OK. Got ya. :thumbsup::whistling:
RJcAGt6.jpg
 
If someone is gaining a position by systematically cutting the track they would have been punished. So why are you guys trying to justify Max??? He just had an upgraded engine that allowed him to move through the field but nothing that his colleague Ricciardo hasn't done even without such upgrades...seriously Is there a Romance cent in the air attracting people to the Dutch???
 
It is yet another case of F1's inconstant enforcement of the rules. I wonder if VER had passed any other team in the same way, would he get the penalty? I agree that in this single case (as it was) the rules were correctly applied... but what about all the other tracks / corners over the year where drivers leave the track with no worries.

Leave the track and get a slight time penalty like 0.250 seconds, it might make the show more interesting.
 
To be fair that upgraded engine should have been given to Daniel who would have certainly and easly snatched a place in the podium and helped the team. Red bull is just being victim of their own karma not supporting the best driver.
 
I think the debate is still about how consistent they are policing that. We saw Bottas ran fully wide off turn 1 and accelerate off the run off to get back on the racing surface and kept his position over Ricciardo. Had there been a wall or grassy run off or gravel that would not have been possible, and he received no penalty from that. If they were going to call one a penalty they should do the same for the other.
 
It is yet another case of F1's inconstant enforcement of the rules. I wonder if VER had passed any other team in the same way, would he get the penalty? I agree that in this single case (as it was) the rules were correctly applied... but what about all the other tracks / corners over the year where drivers leave the track with no worries.

Leave the track and get a slight time penalty like 0.250 seconds, it might make the show more interesting.

Ok...and who is Max to tell us we should review all the F1 past infringments??? For god sake guys
 
I think the debate is still about how consistent they are policing that. We saw Bottas ran fully wide off turn 1 and accelerate off the run off to get back on the racing surface and kept his position over Ricciardo. Had there been a wall or grassy run off or gravel that would not have been possible, and he received no penalty from that. If they were going to call one a penalty they should do the same for the other.

Well I saw Max pushing Bottas off the track and got away with it. If there was a wall he would have never snatched the place. But for Max there seems to be no rules
 
If there is a problem with stewards is that they have to be more strict regardless the team or driver. Still can't believe Vettel wasn't at least banned from the race in Baku
 
More boring tracks with more boring results. At least he made it somewhat exciting.Track limits are something else to have issues and arguments over. Should be a risk reward system. You go off track to make a pass your putting yourself in more peril, problem is modern tracks aren't always designed that well, and set themselves up for problems just like this. Thank the cable system for fast forward and the boyish youth and inexperience of Verstappen to at least make things interesting.
 

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